SECULAR EVIDENCE and NEO-BABYLONIAN CHRONOLOGY (Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, etc.)

[JW Insider]

CC, I know you weren't asking me, but I appreciated that this section showed the value of VAT 4956 as a true astronomical diary, much closer in format to the style and content of later diaries, so that it would not be classed with what John Steele would call the proto-diaries from the previous centuries when the format of these diaries was not so well established. For context I am providing the final two paragraphs of his summary. I highlighted the area I assume you were asking about. (BTW, I thought this whole article was excellent, but not until reading it in its entirety.)

And the chart on page 45:

 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

I don't need confusion to govern my life. T

Excellent point.  These people are so 'smart' (by their own opinion) that they are like winds blowing hither and thither.  We know what the bible has to say about them....   because they are jumping around from this 'proof to that proof' to get their own ideas across as truth... when everything we need is in the bible. All these secular writings are "opinions" such as the opinions about the diaries mentioned above. 

The entire bible is good for teaching in the righteousness of God, making us fully equipped for everlasting life.  And the bible chronology has proven more reliable than secular dates. i.e. the period before the exodus.  the Israelites were in Avaris. The style and rooms of the dwellings are more  Assyrian - like one would find in Haran (the place where Abraham lived before entering the promised land). And these dwelling date from before the exodus and these people were sheep keepers.  There are many other examples but I do not want to open another subject.  

That is why I have constantly said here that they want to call themselves MORE than just a regular JW.  They want that label of 'scholar' or something else  because they think it puts them above the rest. They are proud. Constantly calling up old watchtowers to try to prove that the organization is or was  corrupt....... not thinking that they are exposing who they really are. Others here call themselves Christians but basically reject the chronology the bible sets out to accept secular dates which contradict what happened in the bible i.e. dates which put the exile period at only 50 years - not 70.   

I have learnt something from these so-called brilliant Christians - I have learnt that they have not worked on building their faith in the bible but trying to be politically correct by appeasing the secular people.....  

My analyses of the main theme of the bible itself tells me it is logic, consistent and has continuity and it therefore brings the true reality of god, his purpose and where the world is heading to now.  Its timeline tells me where we are in the stream of time and which prophecy will go into fulfillment next. A brief look at what is happening in the world tells me where we are.  I need no secular evidence to prove to me that the bible is reality!  I learn the thoughts of Jehovah and it gives me insight and discretion to see a fraud a mile away! 

 

[Arauna]

13 hours ago, AlanF said:

honestly think that 3 million people wandering around in a desert for 40 years

I have read a lot about archeology (biblical and other empires). Pasagarde has massive columns standing up about 40 feet high...... nothing was visible..... it had to be dug up.

Troy was not seen.  Schliemann went searching for it and followed the indications given by Homer......... they dug up a lost city which had disappeared.  Rivers have also changed their routes...... such as the Euphrates and many others. 

The surface of the earth can change in 3500 years and covered up deep in sand.  Anything lost in well traversed areas would be picked up an reused. Stones, jewellery etc. Organic materials rarely last long, especially shoes and clothing. Looting of graves also took place.  Archeologists are ecstatic when they find clothes or jewellery which miraculously have survived due to e exceptional conditions.  

 

[Ann O'Maly]

9 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Keeping Watch in Babylon: The Astronomical Diaries in Context 2019

Try reading and understand Chapter 5, page 49, paragraph 2, lines 9-15

You can also see the chart in page 45

How does this help you? What point are you making with this reference?

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

I don't need confusion to govern my life.

Really? You seem to thrive on it.

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Therefore, if VAT4956 suggests #49, then it would be for 586 BC, not 587 BC and 604 BC

Then what would be for 586 BC, etc.? 

Anyway, the eclipse on VAT 4956 belongs to Saros 59.

[AlanF]

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

I have read a lot about archeology (biblical and other empires). Pasagarde has massive columns standing up about 40 feet high...... nothing was visible..... it had to be dug up.

Wrong. Only parts of the place were buried. Excavations were done on the buried parts. Yet again you demonstrate atrocious reading comprehension. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasargadae

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

Troy was not seen.  Schliemann went searching for it and followed the indications given by Homer......... they dug up a lost city which had disappeared.

Wrong again. Most of Troy was never buried. It was so badly ruined that no explorers recognized it.

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

Rivers have also changed their routes...... such as the Euphrates and many others. 

So? There are only dry riverbeds in Sinai. Apples and oranges.

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

The surface of the earth can change in 3500 years and covered up deep in sand.  Anything lost in well traversed areas would be picked up an reused. Stones, jewellery etc. Organic materials rarely last long, especially shoes and clothing. Looting of graves also took place.  Archeologists are ecstatic when they find clothes or jewellery which miraculously have survived due to e exceptional conditions.  

So you actually think that ALL TRACES of 3 million people wandering in a desert wilderness for 40 years could magically disappear. That is called rationalization -- rationalization on a massive scale.

Keep in mind that explorers have searched for evidence of the Exodus in Sinai for well over 200 years. Archaeologists who were extremely eager to find something. Even today, with satellite imaging, eager Israeli and Bible-believing Christians can find nothing. Not even though satellite imaging has revealed all manner of buried structures in Egypt proper.

Desperation to believe in myths is a great motivator for creative rationalization.

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

When has the Watchtower given you that permission or to incoherent ex-witnesses like Srecko, AlanF, John Butler, so forth and so on. How about none scholars like Ann O'Maly, to publish they're works?

WTJWorg GB+Helpers+Elders claims how they are "guided" by holy spirit. GB claims how they are "God's Channel" for spreading God's teachings and instructions, and how they are "God's Spokesperson" here on Earth. In this in mind, i think how all so called "spiritual food" published in any way, on paper or electronically, is not WTJWorg property at all. It is from God Himself. :)) according to their claims. ;)))

If you want to believe in such questionable claims, of course!! :)))

But JW members do believe!!

GB need to prove how every word written and every word spoken is PROPERTY of GOD, as if He is The SOURCE, for such "spiritual food".  Because, only in that way, we can discuss about "The Truth". That is (to prove) terribly hard task. It is much easier to them to prove this silly claims before JW members. 

But GB will never try to prove such claim before a "secular court". Because it is IMPOSSIBLE!!! So, only what they can defend, before courts, is their "right" for "intellectual property" of men maid doctrines!!!.

Also, God never said we have to ask for permission anybody, not God not GB or WTJWorg Company. 

Of course WTJWorg lawyers have different opinion on this issue  :)))))))))))))))))))))))) 

[AlanF]

1 hour ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Really? You seem to thrive on it.

CC is too stupid to be confused.

[Ann O'Maly]

22 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

That reading #59 is for 585 BC.

VAT 4956 doesn't include observations from 585 BCE. There wasn't a July eclipse in 585 BCE. The eclipses in 585 BCE are not from Saros 59.

Here, I've labeled more pictures for you. Remember that -584 is 585 BCE.

Remember that -567 is 568 BCE. 

You're again welcome.

[scholar JW]

Ann O'Maly

Seeing that you such an expert on all matters pertaining to the astronomical tablets would you or can you assist with the following question:

Regarding the 1st Regnal of full year of Cyrus, How is the beginning and end of that year expressed in terms of the Jewish, Julian and Gregorian calenders?

I have not seen this question addressed in any standard text on Chronology or in any scholarly Journal to date and have put this question to Alan F and JW Insider without any success.

The fact of the matter that many consider that WT chronology is in error or simply bunkum according to Alan F so this simple question is a little test if you like in order to properly assess the scholarship of either secular scholars who attempt to disprove the strong cable of Wt  Chronology or of WT scholars who have developed that strong cable of WT Chronology over many centuries.

By the way, No excuses!!!

Awaiting in full expectation

scholar JW

 

[Ann O'Maly]

2 minutes ago, scholar JW said:

Seeing that you such an expert on all matters pertaining to the astronomical tablets would you or can you assist with the following question:

Regarding the 1st Regnal of full year of Cyrus, How is the beginning and end of that year expressed in terms of the Jewish, Julian and Gregorian calenders?

Oh, Neil. I would love to help you. I really would. But I just can't be bothered.

[scholar JW]

Ann O' Maly

Just what I expected. You can't be bothered because you cannot perform such a simple task therefore how can anyone take you seriously when you post on subjects that you lack any expertise especially any criticisms of Furuli's scholarship. Furuli  has done WT chronology a great service in proving that NB Chronology is unreliable for at least three reasons:

1. Missing 20 years- 568/588 BCE dilemma

2. Missing 7 years regnal vacancy of Neb's Kingship

3. Failure to provide any historicity for the 70 years of Jeremiah

5. Missing 1 Year/s of Darius ' reign prior or commensurate with the 1st year of Cyrus

NB Chronology i as with all other secular chronologies are likened to simply a chain or a string of beads, each date being a link or unit in a whole. Whereas, WT Bible Chronology is likened to a cable of interwoven strands of four  events each of which lay between two key events in biblical and modern history providing irrefutable proof/ evidence for this scheme of Chronology.

scholar JW

[Ann O'Maly]

3 minutes ago, scholar JW said:

Just what I expected. You can't be bothered because you cannot perform such a simple task therefore how can anyone take you seriously

That is rich coming from you, Neil, as somebody who said he could not be bothered learning how to use an astronomy program to check the celestial positions on VAT 4956 for himself, and prefers instead to wallow in his own ignorance and self-admitted incompetence while hurling insults at those who have actually done the work. Why should I or AlanF or JW Insider or anyone else spoon-feed easily Googleable answers to someone who is too bone-idle to find the answer for himself, despite boasting about how great a scholar he is? Let me know when you can be bothered, Neil. Until then, hooroo.