1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses

[Anna]

19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

 I think we are currently hurtling toward the same problem we created for ourselves in the 1970's.

Do you have something specific in mind, perhaps to do with the overlapping generation, or something more general?

[Anna]

19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

 it's very important that we don't forget this part of our history, as we can learn from it

Was this perhaps the reason for the convention video?

[JW Insider]

Just now, Anna said:

19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

 I think we are currently hurtling toward the same problem we created for ourselves in the 1970's.

Do you have something specific in mind, perhaps to do with the overlapping generation, or something more general?

Yes, the primary, specific driver of the problem is the fact that Brother Splane has already pointed out the fact that "GROUP 2" are getting "up there" in years, and he pointed to specific people as examples, showing how many of the prime examples from "GROUP 2" have already died. But while this is the driver there are, yes, I think there are a few more general items that combine and catalyze to provide the fuel for the transmission of this vehicle.

One of those general items is a subtle attempt to "herd the cats" back into a more well-defined pen again. The idea of obeying what we might not understand has now been implicitly repeated at least three times recently in various contexts. In 1966, when the first problem started, we were as a group, even more united in thinking than we were in 1925 when some brothers sold their property and created financial issues for themselves. Not everyone, of course, but thousands were just as united in thought as in 1914 when people were pretty much counting down to the very month and day on their countdown cards to October 1, 1914. Many at that time sold property and even bought life insurance policies to provide for their "non-Russellite" relatives when they would be taken. The difference was that, around 1975, we weren't looking to specific day this time, but to a short time period of just months, not years, after 1975 when the 6th creative day would run out. (Of course, brothers were only willing to wait until about December 1975 before forgetting )

The 2018 Circuit Assembly talk on using social media is another example of "herding the cats."

[DefenderOTT]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

I think it's quite obvious that those of the FDS who speculated on this, and originated the idea of 1975,  believed their speculation was an honest assessment.

The honest assessment was to *understand* and not allow your mind to go wild with speculation, which the FDS warned against. If you were around that time, then you would understand. I'm not willing to take the word of someone that cant, speak with clarity and truth if they experienced that moment in time.

It appears the same speculation continues with some that might have been there, but speak of it in a biased way. The good thing is, the Watchtower literature is there for everyone to comprehend and view it correctly without butting a spin in speculation.

[Anna]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

 

The 2018 Circuit Assembly talk on using social media is another example of "herding the cats."

It appears that with the internet it's too late and the "cat is out of the bag" never to be captured again!

[Anna]

1 hour ago, DefenderOTT said:

The honest assessment was to *understand* and not allow your mind to go wild with speculation, which the FDS warned against.

Their mistake was to publish their speculation in their quest for understanding, if that is what you think it was. You do not publish something like that to an audience who has been eagerly waiting, for the end, tongues hanging out, since 1914. You only publish it if you are convinced of it yourself. Otherwise you would be a foolish, not discreet slave.

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

Also, there is no doubt in my mind that those of the FDS, at least Fred Franz, really believed the end would come in 1975

Don't really know first hand what F Franz believed, but I remember the talk he gave about it post '75 because I was sitting in the front row. (No notes I remember...long talk). I am sure he, like a lot of others, certainly hoped for a 1975 event.

The funny thing is there are those who were swayed about 1975 and there are those who were not. Yet both camps seem to have a problem accepting the other now. Those who were swayed seem to be a bit "once bitten, twice shy" and accuse the others of "cognitive dissonance". Those who were not swayed get a bit self-righteous and say "well I didn't fall for it, can't see how anyone else did! But then, you know what these Americans can be like....". And then there's those that weren't even there......................You know what?  "there's now't so queer as folk".

I had a shepherding call in 1973 from a couple of elders, one of whom proudly told me he had cancelled his insurances (life or endowment or something) because he was so sure the imminent end made them not worth paying for. I actually could just about afford my fare to work at the time, so his "exhortation" to simplicity rather fell on deaf ears as I actually had nothing at all left at the end of my working week as my wage at the time only covered my living expenses.

Soon after, a prominent elder from Bethel (who took my book study group) said that he was not a member of the "1975 Armageddon school of thought" because it was actually not a scriptural teaching. I had great respect for that brother at the time and was very glad to hear him say this as I was not comfortable with the view that some, (and it was only some), had over this matter. They were usually a particular type of brother (in my opinion), greeting each other at the kingdom hall, always slightly over-excitedly saying embarrassing things like "it won't be long now" as they shook my hand vigorously, often holding it with two of theirs. 

Another characteristic of some of these ones I remember was their obsessive recording of assembly talks on those little cassette recorders that many had in those days. They were always out of their seats at assemblies, fiddling with safety pins,  as they spiked the speaker wires, fighting for the plum, accessible spots on the stadium ledges, so they could get in and out in time to change tapes that often did not last long enough to get a whole talk on one side. (60 minute tapes used to get wound round the mechanism some how). Then there was the batteries running out, mid-talk! One brother, in haste, actually dropped his recorder down the side of the stadium into a narrow void where the seating structure was. He was so upset over this that it was like his Armageddon had come there and then! These brothers also indulged in swapping these recordings, often getting prized tapes of American COs giving talks at assemblies, and really stirring up the pot in a much more direct and vigorous manner than we were used to. (I think those Americans probably were responsible for the hysteria you know, apart from "Armageddon Ernie" of course).

Ah well, those were the days..."Things ain't what they used to be, and never were". (Will Rogers?)
 

[Anna]

3 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

I think those Americans probably were responsible for the hysteria you know, apart from "Armageddon Ernie" of course

I think you might be right! Enjoyed your post by the way

P.S. I think everyone heard about Armageddon Ernie in the UK, I did too!!

[DefenderOTT]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Their mistake was to publish their speculation in their quest for understanding, if that is what you think it was. You do not publish something like that to an audience who has been eagerly waiting, for the end, tongues hanging out, since 1914. You only publish it if you are convinced of it yourself. Otherwise you would be a foolish, not discreet slave.

Under your logic. If people were told NOT TO SPECULATE, then who are the foolish, that didn't LISTEN to the slave?

[Anna]

Just now, DefenderOTT said:

Under your logic. If people were told NOT TO SPECULATE, then who are the foolish, that didn't LISTEN to the slave?

Once the cat is out of the bag, you can't put it back in, no matter how hard you try.

[Evacuated]

9 minutes ago, Anna said:

Once the cat is out of the bag, you can't put it back in, no matter how hard you try.

Trying to squash a rumor is like trying to unring a bell.

[AnonymousBrother]

2 minutes ago, Anna said:

Once the cat is out of the bag, you can't put it back in, no matter how hard you try.

No.

But, you do not have to try, either.

People should have better things to do than chase cats.

I gave a talk about the "overlapping generations" when it was "new".

Pointed out not to ignore things like retirement plans, etc., because this overlapping stuff could easily drag on another 100 years--likely longer as medical tech advances.

Jehovah has his own time frame.

We were told to be ready at any time for the fan to be hit. We weren't told to jump the gun. As many seemed want to do.

Of course, not having been a witness back then, I cannot say about general moods and such. But I have seen many nowadays starting down the "before next decade" path. I tell them not to plan their lives around a date, and just be ready to run for the hills at any time, because the fan could be hit *tomorrow* or *one hundred years* from now.