Jump to content
The World News Media

1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses


Recommended Posts

  • Member
19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

 I think we are currently hurtling toward the same problem we created for ourselves in the 1970's.

Do you have something specific in mind, perhaps to do with the overlapping generation, or something more general?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Views 10.3k
  • Replies 223
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I have not made it a secret that I think we are currently hurtling toward the same problem we created for ourselves in the 1970's. Therefore, I think it's very important that we don't forget this part of our history, as we can learn from it. I think we learn just as much from the defensive attempts, like the one on "Defending Jehovah's Witnesses" linked above. In fact, I think the mistakes made back in the 1960's and early 1970's with respect to 1975 were very trivial compared to the lessons we

It is quite weird really. Cognitive dissonance perhaps? Just recently I listened to one of the old recordings. The "infamous" talk given by District overseer Charles Sinutko, where the phrase “stay alive till 75” apparently got coined. It was entitled “Serving with everlasting view in mind” I am sure you know which one I am talking about. Br. Sinutko begins his talk by asking “do we know what 1975 means to us? Well we don’t have to guess what the year 1975 means for us. The WT May /1 1967 i

Thanks. But I was referring to the irony of responding to a point about "honesty" by creating additional, false, contradictory accounts -- alter-egos or "personalities," as it were. However, that is almost a perfect lead-in to what many of us saw happening not long after the 1970's came and went without the expectations fulfilled. I haven't studied the psychology of these things, so I can't speak to egos and ids as others might be able to. But I can agree that ego in the more common meaning of t

Posted Images

  • Member
Just now, Anna said:
19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

 I think we are currently hurtling toward the same problem we created for ourselves in the 1970's.

Do you have something specific in mind, perhaps to do with the overlapping generation, or something more general?

Yes, the primary, specific driver of the problem is the fact that Brother Splane has already pointed out the fact that "GROUP 2" are getting "up there" in years, and he pointed to specific people as examples, showing how many of the prime examples from "GROUP 2" have already died. But while this is the driver there are, yes, I think there are a few more general items that combine and catalyze to provide the fuel for the transmission of this vehicle.

One of those general items is a subtle attempt to "herd the cats" back into a more well-defined pen again. The idea of obeying what we might not understand has now been implicitly repeated at least three times recently in various contexts. In 1966, when the first problem started, we were as a group, even more united in thinking than we were in 1925 when some brothers sold their property and created financial issues for themselves. Not everyone, of course, but thousands were just as united in thought as in 1914 when people were pretty much counting down to the very month and day on their countdown cards to October 1, 1914. Many at that time sold property and even bought life insurance policies to provide for their "non-Russellite" relatives when they would be taken. The difference was that, around 1975, we weren't looking to specific day this time, but to a short time period of just months, not years, after 1975 when the 6th creative day would run out. (Of course, brothers were only willing to wait until about December 1975 before forgetting )

65077_912404468789598_569447813907144553

The 2018 Circuit Assembly talk on using social media is another example of "herding the cats."

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Member
1 hour ago, Anna said:

I think it's quite obvious that those of the FDS who speculated on this, and originated the idea of 1975,  believed their speculation was an honest assessment.

The honest assessment was to *understand* and not allow your mind to go wild with speculation, which the FDS warned against. If you were around that time, then you would understand. I'm not willing to take the word of someone that cant, speak with clarity and truth if they experienced that moment in time.

It appears the same speculation continues with some that might have been there, but speak of it in a biased way. The good thing is, the Watchtower literature is there for everyone to comprehend and view it correctly without butting a spin in speculation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Member
1 hour ago, DefenderOTT said:

The honest assessment was to *understand* and not allow your mind to go wild with speculation, which the FDS warned against.

Their mistake was to publish their speculation in their quest for understanding, if that is what you think it was. You do not publish something like that to an audience who has been eagerly waiting, for the end, tongues hanging out, since 1914. You only publish it if you are convinced of it yourself. Otherwise you would be a foolish, not discreet slave.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Member
2 hours ago, Anna said:

Also, there is no doubt in my mind that those of the FDS, at least Fred Franz, really believed the end would come in 1975

Don't really know first hand what F Franz believed, but I remember the talk he gave about it post '75 because I was sitting in the front row. (No notes I remember...long talk). I am sure he, like a lot of others, certainly hoped for a 1975 event.

The funny thing is there are those who were swayed about 1975 and there are those who were not. Yet both camps seem to have a problem accepting the other now. Those who were swayed seem to be a bit "once bitten, twice shy" and accuse the others of "cognitive dissonance". Those who were not swayed get a bit self-righteous and say "well I didn't fall for it, can't see how anyone else did! But then, you know what these Americans can be like....". And then there's those that weren't even there......................You know what?  "there's now't so queer as folk".

I had a shepherding call in 1973 from a couple of elders, one of whom proudly told me he had cancelled his insurances (life or endowment or something) because he was so sure the imminent end made them not worth paying for. I actually could just about afford my fare to work at the time, so his "exhortation" to simplicity rather fell on deaf ears as I actually had nothing at all left at the end of my working week as my wage at the time only covered my living expenses.

Soon after, a prominent elder from Bethel (who took my book study group) said that he was not a member of the "1975 Armageddon school of thought" because it was actually not a scriptural teaching. I had great respect for that brother at the time and was very glad to hear him say this as I was not comfortable with the view that some, (and it was only some), had over this matter. They were usually a particular type of brother (in my opinion), greeting each other at the kingdom hall, always slightly over-excitedly saying embarrassing things like "it won't be long now" as they shook my hand vigorously, often holding it with two of theirs. 

Another characteristic of some of these ones I remember was their obsessive recording of assembly talks on those little cassette recorders that many had in those days. They were always out of their seats at assemblies, fiddling with safety pins,  as they spiked the speaker wires, fighting for the plum, accessible spots on the stadium ledges, so they could get in and out in time to change tapes that often did not last long enough to get a whole talk on one side. (60 minute tapes used to get wound round the mechanism some how). Then there was the batteries running out, mid-talk! One brother, in haste, actually dropped his recorder down the side of the stadium into a narrow void where the seating structure was. He was so upset over this that it was like his Armageddon had come there and then! These brothers also indulged in swapping these recordings, often getting prized tapes of American COs giving talks at assemblies, and really stirring up the pot in a much more direct and vigorous manner than we were used to. (I think those Americans probably were responsible for the hysteria you know, apart from "Armageddon Ernie" of course).

Ah well, those were the days..."Things ain't what they used to be, and never were". (Will Rogers?)
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Member
1 hour ago, Anna said:

Their mistake was to publish their speculation in their quest for understanding, if that is what you think it was. You do not publish something like that to an audience who has been eagerly waiting, for the end, tongues hanging out, since 1914. You only publish it if you are convinced of it yourself. Otherwise you would be a foolish, not discreet slave.

Under your logic. If people were told NOT TO SPECULATE, then who are the foolish, that didn't LISTEN to the slave?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Member
2 minutes ago, Anna said:

Once the cat is out of the bag, you can't put it back in, no matter how hard you try.

No.

But, you do not have to try, either.

People should have better things to do than chase cats.

I gave a talk about the "overlapping generations" when it was "new".

Pointed out not to ignore things like retirement plans, etc., because this overlapping stuff could easily drag on another 100 years--likely longer as medical tech advances.

Jehovah has his own time frame.

We were told to be ready at any time for the fan to be hit. We weren't told to jump the gun. As many seemed want to do.

Of course, not having been a witness back then, I cannot say about general moods and such. But I have seen many nowadays starting down the "before next decade" path. I tell them not to plan their lives around a date, and just be ready to run for the hills at any time, because the fan could be hit *tomorrow* or *one hundred years* from now.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Similar Content

    • By Witness
      Someone on the exjw reddit forum put this video together and offered to share. With the help of the present GB, the debacle of 1975 has modern JWs left in the dark, about the truth surrounding its announcement as the date for Armageddon. This includes those JWs who have conveniently forgotten what that time period of teaching involved. 
      Jer 23:16 (MSG) - A Message from God-of-the-Angel-Armies: “Don’t listen to the sermons of the prophets. It’s all hot air. Lies, lies, and more lies. They make it all up. Not a word they speak comes from me. They preach their ‘Everything Will Turn Out Fine’ sermon to congregations with no taste for God, Their ‘Nothing Bad Will Ever Happen to You’ sermon to people who are set in their own ways."    
      1975 Convention Talks.mp4
    • Guest
    • Guest Nicole
    • By Witness
      “Nourishing Spiritual Food”? 
      I cannot advocate the website listed at the end of this short video, as I haven’t gone there.  Also I do not see verification that the money from the sale of houses, properties and goods was given to the Watchtower at that time period.  But I will not dismiss the large possibility.  What is important about this video, is hearing how 1975 was truly proclaimed from the source; quite contrary to how the 2017 convention presented it: 
      “…you see, back then, some were looking to a certain date as signifying the end of this old system of things. A few, even went so far as selling their homes and quitting their jobs. (km 5/1974)"
      “But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.” 
       You may say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken?”  When a prophet speaks in Yahweh’s name, if the thing doesn’t follow, nor happen, that is the thing which Yahweh has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him.              Deut 18:20-22
      “This is what the LORD of Hosts says: "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They are making you worthless. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the LORD's mouth.”  Jer 23:16
      “Behold, I am against the prophets, says Yahweh, who use their tongues, and say, He says. 32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy lying dreams, says Yahweh, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their vain boasting: yet I didn’t send them, nor commanded them; neither do they profit this people at all, says Yahweh.”  Jer 23:31-32
      If we claim to read God's Word and live by it, then God's Word should help us distinguish truth from lies.  Matt 3:10
       
    • By The Librarian
      by District Overseer Charles Sinutko (Sheboygan – 1967)

       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Haga clic
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. para descargar el archivo 
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Despertad_1975-10-22.pdf

    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Minister of the Jehovah's Witnesses aid in the baptism of some of the 524 converts to the faith in a pool set up at Belmont Park Race Track. The baptism is a high-light of the four-day Witnesses Divine Sovereignty assembly, which ends tomorrow. August 08, 1975. (Photo by Nury Hernandez/New York Post Archives / (c) NYP Holdings, Inc. via Getty Images)
    • By Jesus.defender
      1888 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
       
      1968 "'Adam Created At Close Of 'Sixth Day' Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the Sabbath-like thousand-year reign of Christ....It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.' (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 499)
       
       
    • By Jesus.defender
      If the organization did not actually prophesy the end in 1925 and 1975, then how come so many Witnesses left the faith immediately afterwards? ("They lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn't come as they had implied over and over again," said Jim Penton, an ex-Witness who writes entries on Jehovah's Witnesses for the Encyclopedia Americana.)
       




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.