Russian JW's Begin to Remove Kingdom Halls Signs

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

Agree. Do not check the scriptures. We would not want to find something we do not like - Proverbs 2:1-6; Joel 1:5

[David Normand]

On 10/22/2017 at 10:05 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

I'm sorry, but I think that the view JW members has on these and similar events is under the influence of GB leadership and their interpretation of events to the public with help of JWTV and publications.

JW members are very much constrained by their own lives in the WT Corporation and do not see how other people suffer because of religious beliefs too, whether they are Christians or "Gentiles". Bible stating - "God is impartial!!" - what does it mean for those who are not JW ??? Does JHVH are insensitive for suffering of those people, but only give, pay attention for JW prayers and their letters to Russia? If your Father is impartial, so you as JW member need to pray and for suffers that have Baptists, Catholics, Adventists, Hinduists ....because with such heart and mind and attitude you will imitate Father and Son, as in story of Samaritan. So please start to write letters also for people of other confessions as proof of impartiality :))))   

When I was in jail for "neutrality" as JW, there was also two Adventist boys and two Nazarene boys, for the same issue . Two Adventist boy has been beaten by jail guards because they refused, for the reason of faith of course,  to clean the floors at Saturday, because Saturday is day not for working but for spiritual matters, things. Can they be "wise in front of unbelievers" or those suffer was God's will for them? Or God just allowed their suffer? Because, they were convinced, suffer  is for Jesus name?!  How you as JW member would "judge" their faith and their persistent to not obey secular authorities? Do you think of them as fanatics, as  misdirected zeal?? I am quite sure that JW would say how their faith and believes are not worthy and how Jesus not asking them that and how they wrongly interpret Bible, how their doctrine are err.

Please look in the own mirror, and you will see how "their" face  and "your" face look the same at the end of the day .....or in the morning.:))))))  

How other people act regarding their confession of faith is their business. I work with some folks who insist that working on Sunday is a sin and they refuse to allow company employees (since they own the company) to work on Sunday. Though I disagree with their decision it is not really for me to argue with them about it. They have principles that they are passionate about and I have mine. 

As far as prayer is concerned, What do you suggest I pray for? If I pray for Jehovah to lessen their suffering and he does so, who gets the recognition. They will think that they were alleviated from their suffering because of their (Baptists, Catholics, Adventists, Hindustanis) faith and will not see that Jehovah is the true God. Jehovah is not partial in that he allows the rain to fall on the sinner and righteous one. He does not withhold what is good from us, but he does allow the outworking of events based upon our decisions. 

We had a great public talk yesterday dealing with the issue of "What Prayers Does Jehovah Answer?" Basically, (1) Jehovah answers prayers directed to him (2) offered through his son (3) petition is in harmony with his principles or plan. 

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

prophecy clearly states that the "king of the north" would abolish the continuous sacrifice (or preaching work) and that it would have succeeded - Daniel 8:12
it is obvious that if you are unable to reconsider certain interpretations, you will not be able to understand what is happening.
The last dominant empire is the king of the north and is NOT the king of the south - Daniel 11: 40-45
If he is the king of the north, it is clear that he can not be the Anglo-American Empire.
The northern king is Russia and is also the last horn, the one that kills three kings and is defeated by the principle of the army - Daniel 8: 9-11
This horn is not the Anglo-American empire and the "three kings" are not France, Spain and Holland.
If you think this is "apostasy", you can not argue, you will not be ready for what's to come.
The Bible also says that another war (the last human war) is about to break out, which is what the Northern king and the king of the south are about to discover. He will be the king of the north to win.

Your take on this is interesting. I agree that there is a gap in the Watchtower's reasoning here. This was just barely touched upon at the convention this summer. I watched your video but didn't go to your site. Can you say what you think is a more likely view of the King of the North and South in your opinion?

[Arauna]

We are seen as extreme in Russia because we refuse to go to army, and refuse blood. (I think the neutrality issue and the preaching issue will be the two things that will lead to JWs persecution all over the world in future - personal opinion!)

The Russian ortodox church is the only church endorsed by Putin because he is busy building Russian nationalism.  His foreign list of allies is also growing which includes, Assad, Turkey and Iran (the most vile of governments in the middle east who will eventually vie to be the main power (caliphate). For now Russia/Putin is using them for his goals. He obtained a port in Syria did he not? - right on the doorstep of the West!  Most people think Putin is doing a better job in the East than Trump and in his own country he is seen as a rock star - even though the economy is not doing as well in Russia due to oil price drop.

The Russian ortodox church claimed that JWs are 'extreme' in the landmark court case and JWs were NOT allowed to submit evidence to the contrary. The court case was just a sham. If Ortodox say it is so - then they accept the evidence! So this church is being used as an instrument of the Russian government. (bedfellows Rev 17)

The communist block may still be (personal opinion) the king of the north (China -Russia as their influence is spreading all over the world (China has bought most mineral rights in Africa) while they - Russia and China - suppress/oppress every person or religion back home who does not play their game. Iran and Turkey too - are totalitarian governments. 

Meanwhile, the West has been taken over by cultural decadence - I kind of plan the communists put in place after the Russian revolution hundred years ago when the revolution did not spread - which was propagated intensely after the second world war.  It came from communist and atheistic philosophical thinking which started at the Frankfort School of thought.  Read up about it. It has led to total deterioration of values in the West, all kinds of degenerate sex freedom, decadent morals and breakdown of gender (67 genders recognized at some universities) - and no sense of right and wrong and 'all religions are the same'.  The values of right and wrong is "subjective" -  like beauty. Everyone can just do what they feel as long as no-one is hurt. (modern progressive thought which came from the Frankfort school).

There is no moral backbone anymore - and this is exactly what satan wants because all these philosophies are taking over. People do not really obey the bible any more - they do their own thing. In the place of the bible - the -isms - are taking over at universities and other institutions, even in the justice system. One smart philosopher who believes in the Bible said:  People do not believe in nothing - they believe in 'anything' when they throw the bible out. Many -isms are now taking the place of the bible.

Many of the modern 'new age' and other religions which are steeped in Kabbalism as well as many secret organizations all come from the one source - Satan and the occult.  Most of the western world has now become an occultocracy.  I think Satan is going all out to rule everyone on earth and to replace the people's faith in god with philosophies or organizations which fight for their pet causes. Another powerful ideology is Islam and other religions - which want to rule the earth - and they have the money resources to sow propaganda!  Some parts of the world is weak and some are strong..... iron and clay which do not mix.

I had to leave my revelation and Daniel book behind in USA when I moved.... but I remember the image which the brother posted above.  The fierce beast of iron is the Roman empire and the one horn which rises up and speaks grandiose things was the British empire which rose up later from the Roman empire (the Roman Pope was appointing kings for almost 1000 years in Europe - mostly Germanic kings since the time of Charlemagne until Napoleon took it away.)

Britain fought many sea battles against Spain, France and Netherlands (who had colonies all over) to become the world power This was before the anglo-american world power which co-joined and became the last world power.  Britain also broke away from the catholic church (king Hendry 8) which later led to the conditions for people to start translating the bible more freely and investigating what the bible really teaches (according to Daniel 12:

³ “And those who are wise—the people of God—shall shine as brightly as the sun’s brilliance, and those who turn many to righteousness will glitter like stars forever.

⁴ “But Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal it up so that it will not be understood until the end times, when travel and education shall be vastly increased!”

It seems like Russia is starting to feature in world affairs (but has a bad economy).  This week Russia called for the UN to have greater powers to keep the world from war and further "unity" amongst the world's peoples.  Will we see the UN gain more powers when it is extremely  corrupt already?  Islam is controlling UNESCO and human rights organization at the UN.... and this week they were so silly as to appoint Mugabe to a position (and then remove him after an outcry).

World powers are buying weapons again similar to the cold war era.  China has started to build its own air craft carrier ships......but is still behind.... we can only watch..... but things are brewing! Many other countries are aspiring to have nuclear weapons which can bring massive destruction.

 Time will tell - we just watch on the sidelines as we see bible prophecy go into fulfillment!

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Agree. Do not check the scriptures. We would not want to find something we do not like

During Soviet times when the government was atheistic and could hardly be expected to pick up on religious nuances, it turned out they looked askance at being labeled the 'king of the north' who 'put his trust in the god of fortresses.' 

They were suspicious - and remain so to this day - that the Witnesses were but a political movement disguised as a a religion, taking orders from US based Brooklyn.

[Arauna]

9 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

that the Witnesses were but a political movement disguised as a a religion, t

I think you are talking absurdities! 

Do you really know what a 'religious political' movement is? There are two kinds at present who already have power in the world. One wants to use ' money /banks' to control the world (I will not mention the religious backers) The other:  who want to fight with weapons to rule the world (of which ISIS is a good example.)

Where there are governments who are totalitarian: JWs NEUTRALITY is a problem for them because we do not want to participate in their voting and wars. They see this action as 'opposing' the political system or being pacifists...... Why? because we only do the preaching and warning work and leave ALL THE FIGHTING in Jehovah's hands to fight the final war and bring his rule. Human governments cannot manipulate JWs to do their bidding. This is a true theocracy where Jehovah and Jesus will have direct rule from heaven.

We do NOT get involved with any politics be it racism- feminism or any other form of -ism.  We will NOT receive the mark of the beast - which is clearly identified as the political system of the world. Neutrality is going to become a test for all of us in the time of the end!  So stay faithful only to Jehovah and his future government - in heaven!

Remember Jesus: he was taken before the representative of Ceasar and accused of sedition even after he had healed the soldier's ear and told his disciples not to fight. Why did Jesus instruct them to bring their swords? (2 were there that night)  So he could demonstrate to them that we will not use any form of violence on others.

We must develop the cooperative spirit now so that we will fully cooperate with the final warning before Armageddon.  Also, when we are asked to do something in the new earth - even if it is a sacrifice. The new earth will be organized by shepherds - people who care for us.  Satan will not be around.  Cooperative, meek people will be the kind of people who will remain in the new earth.  If you do not yet understand this principle then I suggest you start studying the bible to develop the right personality traits - because it is a red flag if you do not cooperate! or call them rulers!  

Zeph: 2:3  Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the LORD's anger.

[Arauna]

There is NO gap in the explanation of the fourth beast and its horn. ALL is there for us to understand the history and our place in it.

[JW Insider]

14 minutes ago, Arauna said:

because it is a red flag if you do not cooperate! or call them rulers!

I agree that it is a red flag if we do not cooperate. (Although you weren't clear on who you meant by "them.")

But the second part of what you said there might be ambiguous. Did you mean it is a red flag if you do call them rulers, or a red flag if you do not call them rulers? I assume you meant the organizing shepherds who care for us in the new system. But "them" in the quote above appears to speak of "red flags" in the present. This is why I'm confused as to whether you might be saying it's a red flag now to not call them rulers.

[Anna]

On 10/22/2017 at 10:05 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

JW members are very much constrained by their own lives in the WT Corporation and do not see how other people suffer because of religious beliefs too, whether they are Christians or "Gentiles". Bible stating - "God is impartial!!"

You are quite correct, God is impartial and accepts every human, regardless of race or social status, "who fears him and does what is right". This brings us to the usual argument about what it means to do what is right, and in whose eyes. In other words can it be said that religion, just like race or social status does not matter to God either? The Bible seems to indicate that it does matter to God. It indicates that the impartiality does have a condition attached to it. And that is the whole point of "he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance". Then what does repentance mean? Who sets that standard? God does of course and he lets people know what these standards are through the pages of the Bible. 

That being said, just because Witnesses get all involved with their "own" problems, doesn't mean they do not have compassion with people of other faiths. It is understandable that they will focus on their brothers in the faith first though.

I know it's the "fashion" now for many to believe that ALL Christians in any denominations are acceptable to God as long as they live  a morally clean life and try to do good to others. And that is fine by me because who am I to judge? BUT, I also believe that God has not abandoned his pattern of having a people, a group, unitedly worshiping together like he did in ancient times, separate from the world around them, but this time from every "tribe and nation" not just the Jews. The Scriptures do indicate this on a number of occasions when referencing spiritual Israel, and those who would attach themselves to them as "foreigners" or "other sheep" to make one flock, not individuals standing by themselves out of all the various denominations of Christendom....

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, David Normand said:

How other people act regarding their confession of faith is their business.

I am very sure how similar or the same view as you expressed with this sentence many other people have too. If "spiritual education that JW received in WTis the best in the World, than it would be expected, i would expected, higher level of contemplation and "spiritual maturity", and not so simplified "not my business" attitude.

2 hours ago, David Normand said:

Though I disagree with their decision it is not really for me to argue with them about it. 

If you David, are one of JW then by WT and Bible teaching in NT you have to be interest in talking to people of opposite view and "argue" or as WT Reasoning book in it title have word , you need to "reasoning" with them and to help them and to rescue them from false religion and lies they think are true, from satan philosophy and wrong expectations of future. If you are not JW, receive my apologize. But nevertheless, are you or not JW, it is good for soul to develop more compassion and interest in people, at least, to have better understand of people behaviour :)))

2 hours ago, David Normand said:

If I pray for Jehovah to lessen their suffering and he does so, who gets the recognition. They will think that they were alleviated from their suffering because of their (Baptists, Catholics, Adventists, Hindustanis) faith and will not see that Jehovah is the true God.

Here you need to have attitude "not my business". Because it is JHVH business to open people's mind and heart and NOT YOURS  it is of God's concern how people would interpret events in their lives. As it also case with JW members who interpret events in the way that suits to them. :))))))))  with help of GB.

2 hours ago, David Normand said:

Jehovah is not partial in that he allows the rain to fall on the sinner and righteous one.

Is this really as far as you can go in mediate about God's impartiality??????????    

2 hours ago, David Normand said:

What Prayers Does Jehovah Answer?" Basically, (1) Jehovah answers prayers directed to him (2) offered through his son (3) petition is in harmony with his principles or plan. 

Are you kidding me David? WT publications are full of experience about "worldly" people who prayed to "GOD" not knowing his name, not say "in Jesus name, amen", and not knowing nothing about "harmony in principles and plan", and Bible have examples too about people who prayed to God and He listen to them and helped them, despite how  they were "Gentiles". Ohhh man, if this "requirements", formalities which man has to satisfy before God in order that God could hear him, than all people who are not praying by JW model will never be heard by God, and they have never been heard in the past. Unbelievable :))))))))))))  

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

I think you are talking absurdities! 

Do you really know what a 'religious political' movement is?

I don't think I said that I viewed us that way. I said that the Soviet government did. It is in Baran's book and is well-supported.

Who cares what I think? The brothers were not trying to operate where I governed. They were trying to operate where they governed. I simply meant to note their point of view, not indicate agreement with it.

[TrueTomHarley]

For some reason that I do not understand (is it my imagination?) I seem to rankle you even more than I do the nefarious JTR, who simply prepares another cartoon -  though I would have it the other way around. I consistently find myself agreeing with almost everything you say, and at times being corrected by you.

Some things, though, can be taken too far. Though I agree in some measure with 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

One wants to use ' money /banks' to control the world (I will not mention the religious backers) The other:  who want to fight with weapons to rule the world (of which ISIS is a good example.)

it could also be pointed out the king of the south these days bombs more countries than the king of the north. Money, in this instance, powers the south to manufacture weapons as much or more as the north. Publicly traded arms makers must report quarterly - and those quarterly reports better look good, or hordes of stockholders threaten to abandon ship and go look for 'greener' pastures. Corporations reach a point where they must create their own market, and not just wait for the market to come to them, as a private company might do. Hence, the many Washington lobbyists who ever push the perception that there are many many enemies who must be kept in check by weapons, which, as it turns out, can be supplied by the outfit that they represent.

It is not just the king of the north who loves weapons.