"Veni, vidi, vici"-G.J.Caesar vs. "I see, I read, I hear, I do not understand"-Jehovah's Witness

[TrueTomHarley]

The home of the typical forum participant here:

 

TrueTom's modest abode:

[Witness]

11 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Your illustration does show a contrast. How many poor churches can you compare with VATICAN CITY? From the poor nations around the world that adhere to the Catholic faith? Is that the BEST argument you can make? What are you really trying to prove, when the Watchtower can’t be singled out.

Should I be impressed by your comparison?  Should YOU feel triumphant by your comparison? As I told another JW who compared Wt’s failures as supposedly less than other religious organizations, excusing away Wt’s failed doctrines, as you are now excusing away Wt’s use of money…

… it is by your own admittance that you have brought the “mountainlike organization” down to the level of all other religions. If God were to back this “spirit-directed organization” would there be any comparison? This is a conundrum for JWs, continually weighing in a balance Wt’s failures, or in this case Wt’s visible accomplishments, with those of other false religions/prophets. You are essentially, comparing apples to apples, Satan’s religious empires within the world - with each other.  Thus, can you see, by Wt’s definition of “Babylon the Great”, that Watchtower is included? 

However, Revelation’s “Babylon” is a covenant – a promise of death, (Isa 28:15,18) and called a “mother”. (Gal 4:26,24; Rev 17:5)  “She” has many daughters represented physically by those in power; and since end time fulfillment of Revelation concerns God’s anointed ones and companions, “Babylon’s” daughters are the GB, since they rule through the Wild Beast that comes against God’s “saints”.    Rev 13:1,4,7,8,11,14-17

Watchtower can’t have it both ways; being part of the world through its various investments, stocks, money derived from other organizations, implore other countries to come to its aid when facing adversity; and yet, teach its members not to be part of this world.

Hold on to those scriptures you posted  -  John 4:24 (also 21-23) and Acts 17:24 (also 25)

 

 

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, Nana Fofana said:

or nearby?

hey I know that place, how do you know that place? 

[Shiwiii]

32 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

Well, since I already self-dox to  max, as not gno anythings how darpanets is working?  - I will confest I use to living near dis, in Dana Point, for a few years and have been back to visit some, too.  

How you know?

I live near by but south

[Witness]

48 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

I believe your church is a lot closer than the Watchtower. Matthew 7:2-5.

Oh, dear Allen, what church do you believe I belong to other than the anointed Body of Christ?

[Matthew9969]

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 12:32 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You cannot have it both ways ... unless you are SURE there is a sucker born every minute.

Your gods have it both ways.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

11 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

Your gods have it both ways.

I think you have me confused with someone else.

Although most JWs adore and revere, and kowtow to the Governing Body, in defacto worship, I do not.

I well know it was an understatement when they finally admitted, forced by  Geoffrey Jackson's testimony in the ARC case no. 29 Investigations on Child  Abuse,  in  the Feb. 2017 Watchtower, that they were "neither inspired, or infallible"..

I figured that out a half century ago.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 26/02/2018 at 01:04, AllenSmith said:

Therefore, no amount of NEGATIVE criticism can ever be viewed as wise!!!

Please give me description, rules, methods and  manifestation on this issue, HOW "POSITIVE" criticism look like? of course about WT included in story, not something else what is not theme in this panel discussion.  

In other words HOW LOOKS LIKE YOUR POSITIVE CRITICISM about your own religion (about self, about people and deeds and doctrines and instruction, rules, norms ...)?   

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

"Positive Criticism"

Hmmmmmmm .....

Is that like "Giant Shrimp"?

or "Military Intelligence"?

or "Skinny Broad"?

or "ice water"?

or "acting natural"?

or "horror comics"?

 

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"Positive Criticism"

Hmmmmmmm .....

perhaps  Mr.  Allen by that think; not to say nothing opposite to GBWT and to say nothing that challenge GBWT course of governing

have to wait his respond

[Space Merchant]

But what many fail to see nowadays is what the bible think, the ones who starve for the gospel itself, and believe me, there are some people who are paying attention, watching even.

Somewhat off topic,

An example I can give, as told by a JW I know who is of Dominican descent (has a heavy  Hispanic accent), is spreading the gospel on a farm to the workers, mind you, how these farms are and the work and the people present, is rather questionable, for the man who sees this for the first glance would think of and assume modern slavery (which can be agreed and disagreed upon by some), it may look it, but these people are getting paid, probably not as much as the average teenager working a part-time job at a Burger King or the like. These people have had only two groups that come to their farm, members of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and you have the Temple of Christ Church members, they both have come into contact with each other on the farmland on several occasions, the only ones to interface with each other is those who are clearly not 100% American - bounded by culture has its perks. They both seek out people who are on their break and have free-time to spare, they both preach the gospel, but JWs have more people who speak the language of those on the farm, broken french/french, Spanish and English while the Temple of Christ folk only spoke English, and of course, spent most of their time shouting from a location they remain stationary. The people paid more attention to the message in regards of the bible that JWs are speaking and utilizing, for what the people notice is that not only JWs come in pairs, but they hold the bible in their hands and whatever they say is from the bible itself be it the message they are conveying or whatever publication they give to the person (in their language of course), while the Temple of Christ folk sends one person to an individual or a group of people or remain stationary and shout to the top of their lungs, they have a paper with bible verses on it, the JW stated it had questions more direct to how ToC deems Jesus as God as well as the Spirit, one question on that paper even states how to avoid burning in hell forever, something of the sort. As for the conclusion, the workers on the farm tend to stick to the message the JWs are preaching in regards of the gospel, for they learned that God is the Father of Jesus Christ while the Temple of Christ taught quite the confusing message of the Trinity, that God is the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, 3 Gods if you will, as you can see clearly a gospel that does not make sense or connects to scripture will not win the attention and hearts of those who strongly believe that God exist but lack a level of reading and or writing ability. That alone should tell you something. In addition, the owner of the farmland allowed both groups to hold meetings outside, the Temple of Christ got Sundays while JWs got Saturdays, and more people attended the Saturday meetings vs that of the Sunday ones, again, this should tell you something.

At this point, such people do not focus on religious leadership or the like, they are more in-tuned with the message itself, what is true to the very scriptures itself and nothing else. It is uncertain if said people attend the JW church since if the farmers move, they move also, but the message was still sent and received at this point. As far as I know, a lot of not 100% American JWs are present at these farms and relate to the workers there very quickly.

That being said, it is evident that people out there want the gospel that is true to scripture, even farmers who not the best at reading and writing at times, who believe God exist, want to hear the gospel and it seems they stuck to the JWs vs that of ToC.

As for the farmers and the workers, how it is today (this is not your typical ma and pa or ol' McDonald type of farms) these are farms that have quite the work conditions, as well as living conditions that are not the best at times, I believe a while back someone said they went to visit to take pictures and saw workers their cutting their own hair, like a mini-barbershop, as well as seeing a mother, a worker at the farm, who has her kids with her, things of that nature. These workers are usually hauled up in buses and relocated to other locations during the season, you an find people like this during this season and summer, but late summer these farms close up, it is also believed that few people who do not have a US citizenship tend to be working at these farms and are by themselves or accompanied by relatives, and or friends who take them under their wing. Such farms existed throughout the United States.

In my personal opinion, these farms are technically modern day slavery, to some degree, but ironically these farms are open for the public to go visit, which becomes a focus for religious figures since 100%of the workers tend to be God seeking people. The JW who spoke to me about this stated the young man he was preaching to, 19 of age at the time, he was able to help him get a better job, clearly these two have become friends.

At the end of the day, it should be in us to know there are people who not only want to know who God is, but what the gospel as well, nothing misleading or some outlandish doctrine that is nowhere in scripture, such ones should not be ignored, let alone those who clearly do not know who God is, who is Son is, or what of the Kingdom. Jesus was very clear and concise in what he said in John 17, in order to gain eternal life, we must come to know God and who the Son is.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

At the end of the day, it should be in us to know there are people who not only want to know who God is, but what the gospel as well, nothing misleading or some outlandish doctrine that is nowhere in scripture, such ones should not be ignored, let alone those who clearly do not know who God is, who is Son is, or what of the Kingdom. Jesus was very clear and concise in what he said in John 17, in order to gain eternal life, we must come to know God and who the Son is.

I firmly believe that if we as Jehovah's Witnesses stuck to just the Gospel, as written, and not all the outlandish and "problematic" theological theories whose sole purpose is to generate slavish obedience to self appointed men, artificial panic, and a sense of urgency to keep the "troops" marching ... that we would not have to spend endless hours knocking on doors of people that could not care less, or are not at home ...

They would be knocking on ours.

We have the TRUTH ... but like in any delicious, wholesome salad ... it is offensive for rational people to have to eat around the crap.

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