Jump to content
The World News Media

ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.

JW Insider

By JW Insider
in Topics

 Share

Recommended Posts


  • Views 7.5k
  • Replies 137
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

b4ucuhear

Well said. The sooner we stop "going beyond the things written" and stick to our Christian mandates the better. The fact that we have been totally wrong about numerous other dates (every other date?)

TrueTomHarley

I would not call it “dumb” if I were you. The four windows reminds us of the four angels on the four corners of the earth holding tight the four winds of the earth. The carpet covering the dirt o

JW Insider

I guess I should respond to this point too, since you added "Some scholars have updated their chronology . . . Why haven't you updated yours?" First of all I don't care about Wiseman and Grayson

Posted Images

  • Member
Patiently waiting for Truth Veteran

Patiently waiting for Truth

Posted
  • Member
Posted

Does anyone actually pay money for web space for this forum ? Because the last 4 or 5 pages on this topic have been total rubbish.   I've noted only 3 sensible comments, 2 from @Srecko Sostar and 1 from @Anna . 

I do love @Anna 's comment comparing the GB / W/t / JW Org to a fortuneteller.  And we know where fortunetellers get their info from don't we :) , and it isn't from God or Christ. 

As for this :-

 

On 12/23/2019 at 11:09 AM, b4ucuhear said:

Stuff will happen when Jehovah says it should happen. We should be more concerned with whether we will be ready for it. 

Well yes you should, but, you should also be concerned that what you preach is honest truth. Going around frightening people with an 'end is nigh' message and a 'only baptised JWs will be saved' message is not teaching truth to anyone. To pretend that JWs door to door witnessing is doing God's will. well I'm sure you know it isn't.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Member
TrueTomHarley Grand Master

TrueTomHarley

Posted
  • Member
Posted
1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

Because the last 4 or 5 pages on this topic have been total rubbish.   I've noted only 3 sensible comments

You have only yourself to blame. I have commented many times more than that—each one is a masterpiece.

53 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You made excellent point... question is not should we preach, but what to preach. 

What do you suggest that should be?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Member
Patiently waiting for Truth Veteran

Patiently waiting for Truth

Posted
  • Member
Posted

But if GB / Writing department only wrote TRUTH that they were 100% certain of and could prove, then the Watchtower mags would be empty, and there would be no 'talk outlines' to use. However, why is it not possible to just have meetings that give praise to God through Christ, without needing to give false information through a magazine ? And why do people need to be told, using a 'Work Book', what to preach ? Surely if they are qualified to preach they would know in their hearts what to preach.  It all just shows that the congregants are just puppets for the GB and it's Org. 

Of course it also shows that I'm not qualified to preach to others :) or I would be doing so. Unfortunately, having got rid of a fake foundation, I haven't yet built a new foundation. But i still think that having an empty cup is better than having a cup of poison. So I've thrown the poison away, washed out the cup (my heart and my mind), and now I'm ready to receive truth. But where that truth will come from i do not know. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Member
b4ucuhear Explorer

b4ucuhear

Posted
  • Member
Posted
21 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

you should also be concerned that what you preach is honest truth. Going around frightening people with an 'end is nigh' message and a 'only baptised JWs will be saved' message is not teaching truth to anyone. To pretend that JWs door to door witnessing is doing God's will. well I'm sure you know it isn't. 

 We should all be concerned with what we preach as being the honest truth - that's what "truth" seekers do. But it is also fair to say that while God knows absolute truth, Bible truths have been gradually revealed from the first prophecy in Gen. 3:15 regarding the seed (and other prophecies) until now. The Patriarchs, Jews, early Christians and JW's today have always had to revise their understanding/expectation of certain things they had assumed/believed to be true as more information was forthcoming. Some see that as a bad thing - being "wrong" about certain beliefs or expectations, while I see it as a positive/progressive trait - which is what one would expect from truth "seekers." The fact that JW's have made  changes and continue to do so shows they are humble enough to admit their mistakes and correct matters. (That assumes as well that other changes will likely be made as they are confronted with more realities. Some dates have gone by the wayside and maybe even 1914 could be discarded eventually. Who knows?) Dates are of little concern to anyone who intends their dedication to God to be forever. In fact, on studies with other people, I qualify these types of things as our "present understanding" organizationally, but if a change in thinking takes place don't be too upset about it. It's part of the growing process all humble servants of God have rolled with. On other things, like war, hellfire, Trinity, Christmas...I'm certainly more definite about. 

 "Going around frightening people with an 'end is nigh' message and a 'only baptized JW's will be saved' message is not teaching truth to anyone." First of all as you should already know, our preaching work is not to go around "frightening people." If that was our purpose, we would be preaching what almost every other religion on earth you would have a choice of going to would preach: Hellfire. So we are different in that respect. What we preach is the gospel or good news. Good news about what? As everyone knows, it is the "good news of God's Kingdom" that we preach in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations before the end comes. (Matt. 24:14). Also to make disciples. (Matt. 28:19, 20; Acts 28:28, 30) We even look at Armageddon as a positive in clearing the world of Satan's system and those who aren't interested in doing God's will in favour of those who are. We are informing people they have a choice. There is nothing new there:
Deut. 11:26-28: "See, I am putting before you today a blessing and a curse 27 the blessing if you obey the commandments of Jehovah your God that I am commanding your today 28 and the curse if you do not obey the commandments of Jehovah your God and you turn aside from the way I am commanding you to follow..." There are many other Bible passages in the same vein.

  "To pretend that JW's door to door witnessing is doing God's will, well I'm sure you know it isn't." If you can't be honest then don't project that on us. Of course we believe witnessing is something Jehovah's "Witnesses" should be doing. While you may disagree with our message you can't say we don't "walk-the-walk" when it comes to witnessing/preaching about God's Kingdom and what it will accomplish. It is one of the main focuses of our organization. While we may not know the "day and hour" and can't predict the future regarding dates, the message about God's Kingdom to us, is a clear focus in the Bible. So if you don't think we are doing God's will as to our door-to-door work, then you are welcome to your opinion - but at least be honest about it. I for one, DO believe we are.

2 Tim> 4:2 "Preach the word; be at it urgently in favourable times and difficult times..." Romans 10:14 "How in turn, will they hear without someone to preach..." Matt. 10:7 As you go, preach saying: 'The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." Heb. 10:15 "How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out?" Acts 10:42 " Acts 10:42 "Also, he ordered us to preach to the people and to give a thorough witness..." Luke 9:2 "And he sent them out to preach the Kingdom of God and to heal." ... 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Member
Srecko Sostar Veteran

Srecko Sostar

Posted
  • Member
Posted
1 hour ago, b4ucuhear said:

The Patriarchs, Jews, early Christians and JW's today have always had to revise their understanding/expectation of certain things they had assumed/believed to be true as more information was forthcoming. Some see that as a bad thing - being "wrong" about certain beliefs or expectations, while I see it as a positive/progressive trait - which is what one would expect from truth "seekers." The fact that JW's have made  changes and continue to do so shows they are humble enough to admit their mistakes and correct matters.

To be wrong in understanding, in expectations and beliefs, is normal human business. To revise things we see as wrong is also normal and beneficial.

What is NOT normal is when leaders, in this endless process of revision, condemn and exclude all those who disagree. Church leaders and elders proclaims all such individuals as spiritually weak, unfaithful, apostates, usurpers ..etc. And all other rank and file members join to them in this judging and shunning. And for what? For things described as ""positive and progressive trait" of "wrongs". 

Until today, all this JW's elders who are long enough in organization, should learned till now how they judging people on basis of unstable truths and knowledges which continue to change. In that respect, elders are NOT humble and not admitting their mistakes and they not correcting matters - because all those who are dfd and shunned because of doctrinal issues needed to have a different treatment, and should be rehabilitated, amnestied . Treatment that would show how JW "truth and knowledge" is in process of revisions and changes .... to some future confirmation. And how "open minded" elders see and understand this reality. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • George88
      Hebrews 12:5-6

      By George88 · Posted

      An interesting concept, bible discipline. I am struck by the prevalence of ignorance about spiritual discipline on "Reddit." While physical and mental disciplines receive attention, the profound impact of spiritual discipline on a person's physical and mental well-being is often overlooked. Is it possible to argue against the words of the Apostle Paul? When he penned those words in Hebrews 12, he was recognizing that there are moments when an individual must be "rebuked" in order to be corrected. Even Jesus himself established a precedent when he rebuked Peter and referred to him as Satan for failing to comprehend what Jesus had already revealed to the apostles. Did that imply that Jesus had an evil heart? Not at all, it was quite the opposite; Jesus had a loving heart. His need to correct Peter actually showcased his genuine love for him. If he hadn't cared, he would have let Peter persist in his mistaken ways, leading to a fate similar to Judas'. There is a clear emphasis on avoiding the apostate translation and its meaning, yet many seem to overlook the biblical foundation for the reasons NOT to follow the path of the fallen brethren or those with an apostate mentality. Those individuals have embraced the path of darkness, where the illuminating power of light cannot penetrate, to avoid receiving the righteous discipline based on God's Bible teachings. They are undoubtedly aware that this undeniable truth of life must be disregarded in order to uphold their baseless justifications for the unjust act of shunning. Can anyone truly "force" someone or stop them from rejecting a friend or family member? Such a notion would be absurd, considering the fact that we all have the power of free will. If a Witness decides to distance themselves from a family member or friend simply because they have come out as gay, who is anyone within the organization to question or challenge that personal sentiment? It is unfortunate that there are individuals, both within and outside the organization, who not only lack a proper understanding of the Bible but also dare to suggest that God's discipline is barbaric. We must remember that personal choices should be respected, and it is not for others to judge or condemn someone based on their sexual orientation but should be avoided under biblical grounds. No one should have the power to compel an individual to change their sexual orientation, nor should anyone be forced to accept someone for who they are. When it comes to a family's desire to shield their children from external influences, who has the right to challenge the parents' decision? And if a family's rejection of others is based on cultural factors rather than religious beliefs, who can impose religious judgment on them? Who should true followers of Christ follow? The words of God or those who believe they can change God's laws to fit their lives? How can we apply the inspired words of Paul from God to embrace the reality of God's discipline? On the contrary, how can nonconformists expect to persuade those with a "worldview" that their religious beliefs are unacceptable by ostracizing individuals, when God condemns homosexuality? This is precisely why the arguments put forth by ex-witnesses are lacking in their pursuit of justice. When they employ misguided tactics, justice remains elusive as their arguments are either weak or inconsistent with biblical standards. Therefore, it is crucial to also comprehend Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9:27. The use of the word "shun" is being exaggerated and excessively condemned by those who reject biblical shunning as a form of punishment. Eph 5:3-14 NIV 3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person — such a man is an idolater — has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.  8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible. The impact of the message becomes significantly stronger when we emphasize the importance of avoiding any association with unrighteousness and those who remain unrepentant. In fact, it becomes even more compelling when we witness how some individuals, who dismiss biblical shunning as a method of discipline, excessively criticize and condemn the use of the word "shun". Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses do not shun people; instead, they choose to focus on the negative actions being committed, which is in accordance with biblical teachings. This should be construed as ex-Witness rhetoric. Now, let's consider why ex-Witnesses specifically target one particular religion. What justifications do they provide when other Christian denominations also adhere to the same principle grounded in the Bible? Chapter 1 - Preface Both must therefore test themselves: the one, if he is qualified to speak and leave behind him written records; the other, if he is in a right state to hear and read: as also some in the dispensation of the Eucharist, according to  custom enjoin that each one of the people individually should take his part. One's own conscience is best for choosing accurately or shunning. And its firm foundation is a right life, with suitable instruction. But the imitation of those who have already been proved, and who have led correct lives, is most excellent for the understanding and practice of the commandments. "So that whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup."  It therefore follows, that every one of those who undertake to promote the good of their neighbours, ought to consider whether he has betaken himself to teaching rashly and out of rivalry to any; if his communication of the word is out of vainglory; if the the only reward he reaps is the salvation of those who hear, and if he speaks not in order to win favour: if so, he who speaks by writings escapes the reproach of mercenary motives. "For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know," says the apostle, "nor a cloak of covetousness. God is witness. Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome as the apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children."   (from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 2) Divine promises 2. The manner of shunning, in the word escaping. There is a flying away required, and that quickly, as in the plague, or from a fire which hath almost burned us, or a flood that breaketh in upon us. We cannot soon enough escape from sin (Matt 3:7; Heb 6:18). No motion but flight becomes us in this case. Doctrine: That the great end and effect of the promises of the gospel is to make us partakers of the Divine nature. (from The Biblical Illustrator)  
    • BTK59
      Is Light a Wave or a Particle?

      By BTK59 · Posted

      Clearly, they are already demanding your exile. Yes! It's unfortunate that Pudgy spoiled a great discussion about science. I hope the discussion can continue without any more nonsensical interruptions. Just a suggestion since they are on your heels. Wow! You speak! It seems you have a lot to say! Now they are going to treat like, who do you think you are, mister big stuff! Are those aliens now going to imply that anyone who speaks out against the five or six key contributors to this site will be treated as though it is George just because those in opposition speak the language they hate to hear, the TRUTH? They are seeking individuals who will embrace their nonconformist values and appreciate what they can offer in shaping public opinion contrary to the established agenda of God and Christ. Their goal is to enhance their writing abilities and avoid squandering time on frivolous pursuits, mainly arguing about the truth they don't care for. They see it all as a mere game, even when leading people astray. They believe they have every right to and will face no biblical repercussions, or so they believe. They just want to have fun just like that Cyndi Lauper song. Be prepared to be belittled and ridiculed, all the while they claim to be angels. Haha! By the way, please refrain from using the same language as George. They appear to believe that when others use the same words, it means they are the same person, and they emphasize this as if no one else is allowed to use similar grammar. It seems they think only they have the right to use the same or similar writing styles. Quite amusing, isn't it? See, what I just placed in bold, now I'm George, lol! Now, let's leave this nice science thread for people that want to know more about science. I believe George left it at "Zero Distance."  
    • TrueTomHarley
      Is Light a Wave or a Particle?

      By TrueTomHarley · Posted

      Nice little thread you’ve got going here, SciTech. It would be a shame if something were to happen to it.
    • Alphonse
      Is Light a Wave or a Particle?

      By Alphonse · Posted

      It's truly disheartening when someone who is supposed to be a friend of the exclusive group resorts to using profanity in their comments, just like other members claiming to be witnesses. It's quite a ludicrous situation for the public to witness.  Yet, the "defense" of such a person, continues. 
    • TrueTomHarley
      Is Light a Wave or a Particle?

      By TrueTomHarley · Posted

      No. However, I would appreciate if you do not reveal to all and sundry the secret meeting place of the closed club. (I do feel someone bad stomping on Sci’s little thread. But I see that has already happened.)

  • Members

  • Recent Status Updates

    • lauleb

      lauleb  »  misette

      merci pour ton travail très utile. tu es une aide qui fortifie
      · 0 replies
    • Pamela Dunston

      Pamela Dunston  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hi, TB
      I would like to get the weekly meeting and watchtower materials  and the 2024 convention 
      Attend the 2024 Convention—“Declare the Good News!”
      notebook, I just recently got a new computer, If don't mind my brother to add me on and allow me access to our study again.
       
      Thank you, so much
      Sister Dunston
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24

      SpiritualSister 24  »  DARLENE2022

      Hello, Darlene, I just love your name, I had a cousin named Darline, and had a classmate also named Darlene! It's a pleasure to know another Darlene! Especially a Spiritual Sister! There's some websites, Ministry Ideaz , JW Stuff.com, and Etsy that I use to order my yearly buttons for the Conventions! They always send me what I order, and their also Jehovah's Witnesses, that send us the merchandise we order!  You can check out these websites, and they might have what your looking for! I hope I have been helpful in assisting you, Darlene! Agape love, Shirley!😀
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24

      SpiritualSister 24

      2024"Enter Into God's Rest" Circuit Assembly! 
      · 0 replies
    • Janice Lewis

      Janice Lewis  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hello Twyla, when will the weekly study material be available. I am a member.
      Janice Lewis     lewisjanice84@gmail.com
      Thank you
      · 1 reply

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      159.9k

  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,685
    • Most Online
      1,592
    josteiki
    Newest Member
    josteiki
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.