Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

The exjw group there, may just eat you alive. 

Trust me, they do. I used to post and then hang around to briefly answer any responses. They are almost always hostile, so I do it rarely now.

39 minutes ago, Anna said:

They don't really like "JW intruders" stirring things up. 

They welcome them with open arms at first, assuming they are coming in from the cold. When they discover that is not so....

39 minutes ago, Anna said:

They usually tell them to go away.

Generally true, but not necessarily. It probably helps that I am not disrespectful. Still, it is mostly because of the Philly reporter that I went there. ‘If he considers it a source, maybe others do as well,’ I thought. Not all all exJWs, though most are. I visit there less and less and I interact hardly at all.

[Witness]

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

Implication False!  The apostles are in heaven already - received immortality. The GB are mortal men who act as a slave - do their masters bidding to preach the word and give food at proper time in the last days. This is their commission. 

Both you and @the Sower of Seed, say that Paul had to submit and humble himself to the "older men" in Jerusalem, and do their will; to go and preach where these men directed them.   Gal 1:10

Firstly, scripture shows us this is not true.  Acts 8:29; 13:2-4; 11:11,12; 16:6-7; 20:22

Secondly, put the GB that you know, back in Jerusalem as these “older men”/Governing Body during Paul’s time period.   Picturing your eight men as those in Jerusalem, how does that seem to you? Your men are not inspired by Holy Spirit, but come equipped with man’s rules and doctrine to run an organization, in whatever that requires aside from the Bible for that time period.  It would be similar to the Pharisees adding additional decrees to God's Word.   Is it acceptable for a prophet/teacher/foundation stone of God’s Temple in Christ, (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) to submit to men and their “rules”, when he said specifically…

 ^“Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: ²¹ “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? ²² These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.”  Col 2:20-22

Can you imagine Paul or any of the apostles submitting to your GB leaders, in that example?  This is basically what @the Sower of Seed was saying.  He has learned this from the GB, who have made up stories about a centralized organization present in Jerusalem, even so far as using the term "governing body" for those "older men".  All of this is to add magical credence to GB's spurious position. 

Paul was directed by Holy Spirit, not by men. 

Side point, you must not have heard the news.  The GB have already received their heavenly reward, it’s now a matter of making the trip to pick it up.

Gerrit Losch:  “To appreciate the extent of Jehovah’s and Jesus’ trust in the faithful slave reflect on what he has promised its members. He has promised them immortality and incorruption. Soon, JUST BEFORE ARMAGEDDON the remaining members of the slave will be taken to heaven.” 

“Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ COMPLETELY trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?”

What sort of person who admits they have led JWs in error,  would be so confident before God and Jesus by saying firstly, God “completely” trusts them?  Secondly, that they WILL be going to heaven before hearing the verdict?  Matt 25:19-21

The foundation stones of the Temple, who are the 12 apostles, will judge all anointed during their lifetime with the help of Christ.

Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” Matt 19:28

Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.  Rev 7:4

It’s very possible that the apostles judged the “older men” in Jerusalem if they were anointed.  But you say, that Paul had to be submissive to their direction! 

 Do you believe that the GB, who consistently makes subtle comparisons of itself to the apostles, will be excused for their self-righteousness?  Are they “pure and blameless” to serve Christ and the Father?  Is there “no lie” found in their mouths?  Rev 14: 4,5  Do you believe Jesus will excuse their presumptuousness in declaring their position in heaven with him , before he finds them worthy?  What about their “brothers and sister” in Christ?  Since the GB uses an elder army to judge the anointed ones, will they not be responsible before God’s judging panel, for usurping the apostle’s authority given to them by Christ? 

Rev 20:4,11-15; Dan 7:9,22; Jude 1:14,15

 The organization is a bottomless sink hole of sin and deception.  I believe the GB were once anointed by God, but chose to forsake this gift for another. It is evident in their desire to build their earthly "kingdom" and rule over the Body of Christ.  Luke 4:5-7; Rev 8:10,11; 13:11,12, 5-7

@Arauna  "I have seen enough on here to understand that you have no sense of justice or mercy - only false accusations.  Satan was an accuser day and night. To quote the same tons  of scriptures over and over is not wisdom."

To speak profusely, by condemning someone over and over without scripture to back up their words, is not spiritually wise. 

 

.

 

 http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/11/resurrectionjudgmentlife-and-death.html

4 hours ago, Anna said:

They don't really like "JW intruders" stirring things up. They usually tell them to go away.

Maybe they don't want to reopen an old wound.

“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone.”   Rose Kennedy

[the Sower of Seed]

10 hours ago, Witness said:

"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.  Gal 1:6-10

The Truth is before you, however your Hatred for Jehovah's Witnesses keeps you from grasping it. The Apostle was warning the congregation of men like the clergy today, men who say their is nothing wrong with homosexual acts and the other works of the flesh that are listed at 5:19: are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, 20 idolatry, spiritism, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects,21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and things like these. I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.To gain the approval of people in that congregation went out to please men rather than obey God, they were perverting the Gospel like you are perverting who the Apostle Paul is.

Saul was powerful as a Pharisee, hating the Way and stood there approving of the stoning of Stephen, he zealously arrested the Christians to have them imprisoned. Then he is blinded by Christ for 3 days. Now imagine he had to go with Ananias to become baptized as one of the first of the Christian Jehovah's Witnesses in the first century. Was humility needed?

Imagine yourself having to be baptized by one of those you persecuted and hated so much!!!  

Yet, Paul had to do that to gain God's approval. He HUMBLY accepted that he was wrong and turned his zeal toward preaching the Good News of God's Kingdom (just as all Jehovah's Witnesses do) and resisting apostates who pervert the truth and the Way.

 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Both you and @the Sower of Seed, say that Paul had to submit and humble himself to the "older men" in Jerusalem, and do their will; to go and preach where these men directed them.

Do not put words in my mouth. Yes, Paul did go and testify to the GB in Jerusalem about circumcision. He respected the brothers who were appointed in their positions on this central body. He did not agree with them so he went to testify..... and Jehovahs spirit gave the outcome....... the right decision because Paul's evidence was overwhelming. Those in Jerusalem  were not working so far afield and did not see the evidence first hand which Paul presented to them.

However, Paul was moved by holy spirit to preach and was moved to go where the spirit took him. He had the whole wide world open to him and jehovah knew where the best places would be to start congregations.... so Angel's were involved.

Today the work is coordinated by congregations in the territory so we do not get the public riled up by plagueging them. This way of doing things has many practical reasons behind it - there are no sinister control agendas..... Jehovah is a God of order. 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

sort of person who admits they have led JWs in error,  would

So you will never admit an error?..... because you say you are anointed you cannot make a mistake? 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

It’s very possible that the apostles judged the “older men” in Jerusalem if they were anointed

Strange how you stand up for this type of hierarchy when Paul was an apostle too - not only the 12 (the word apostle only means "sent out" ).  Paul and John corrected 'elders' in congregations because they did not root out the evil which silently came into the congregations.  The elders were appointed and were shepherding the flock at this time and this was to be the model for the future in congregations. The apostles went to their graves to wait for first resurrection so in this entire time they were not capable of judging.....  By the way they were all men...... no women.

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

by condemning someone over and over without scripture to back up their words, is not spiritually wise. 

Your own words condemn you when it distorts the truth. 

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone.”   Rose Kennedy

For people who like to lick their wounds from time to time this is true. True forgiveness takes away all wounds and resentment. A scar is not painful unless you open it again.  It is merely a sign that you got a wound and now know how to avoid it in future so it will not happen again.

People should learn to get on with life. Not look back. Every day is an opportunity to grow into a new and better person.... 

When you rehash the past (if it comes up in the brain by accident) and think too much about it in an emotional way - the brain ends up rebuilding the bad memories and synapses.... In the brain it will tend to come up more... and when emotion is attached to memories one remembers it even better....... new synapses....

When bad thoughts come up...... do not think about them.... get on with making new beautiful memories. 

[Anna]

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I visit there less and less and I interact hardly at all.

There is one strictly ex-jw forum I visit periodically (it's been around for more than 12 years) to see what is new, since they always seem to have the latest news 😀. I pick and choose what I want to read, and I don't comment any more, I used to years ago....but now you could say I am a "seasoned non arguer", since I've read it all, and argued it all by now. They seem to be happy the way they are. I do understand a few of their gripes, but mainly their gripes all boil down to really wanting to do their own thing. When you remove all the "fluff" then that's what's left, just selfishness. It's all about them, and what they want to do, and they don't want anyone telling them, especially not God. Same old, same old. Most are atheist.....

I don't regret interacting with them in the past. You learn a lot, research stuff, and nothing shocks you anymore, which is good.  If someone leaves the "Truth" because of an ex-jw argument, then he wasn't convinced of the "Truth" in the first place, and deep down sought an excuse to leave. That's my opinion anyway....

[Arauna]

31 minutes ago, Anna said:

don't regret interacting with them in the past. You learn a lot, research stuff, and nothing shocks you anymore, which is good.  If someone leaves the "Truth" because of an ex-jw argument, then he wasn't convinced of the "Truth" in the first place, and deep down sought an excuse to leave. That's my opinion anyway....

So true Anna.  It was good for me ..... but I would not advise anyone to visit these sites.... especially if they are not seasoned in reasoning about things.  Young people have too much responsibilities to have time to think.  Older people, in twilight of life, have the philosophical stage kick in... they think more and have more time.

I only visit this forum and find it takes too much of my time and tremendous strain on my eyes. 

I visited another site only once and a exceptionally nasty group used my picture to plaster lies about me all over internet and mocked me.  I discovered the woman who was behind this - and collected evidence to send to her work.... the hospital she was working at.....so her bosses knew what she was doing at work and at home. She was a nurse... but I just left it.... I knew it would go away if I did nothing. 

31 minutes ago, Anna said:

say I am a "seasoned non arguer", since I've read it all, and argued it all by now. They seem to be happy the way they are.

I am also starting to pick my subjects and avoid certain people who repetitiously just accuse. I am tired of dealing with repetition..... I like a good conversation where I can learn something new or can contribute. 

I like beautiful thoughts but I also like to keep the mind as sharp as I can - sometimes this includes the ugly realities of life.  I can go to the cumbaya groups and post pictures of myself on field service..... but I need more than this in a social interaction. This is why I tend to rather end up here.

 

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Do not put words in my mouth. Yes, Paul did go and testify to the GB in Jerusalem about circumcision. He respected the brothers who were appointed in their positions on this central body. He did not agree with them so he went to testify..... and Jehovahs spirit gave the outcome....... the right decision because Paul's evidence was overwhelming. Those in Jerusalem  were not working so far afield and did not see the evidence first hand which Paul presented to them.

This is what you said earlier, with a bit of a different twist to it:

“The point is not who organized Paul's personal ministry and who chose him ....but who he himself was subject to report to. In proof: He went all the way back to Jerusalem to go and report to the "body" that was making central decisions about circumcision of former pagans now in the congregation. All that travelling to report to an organization headed by James in Jerusalem?  It indicates he viewed  himself as subject to them and their opinions mattered for the unity if all the congregations.” 

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/forums/topic/84867-c-t-russell-was-labeled-as-an-apostate-by-the-adventists-in-1877/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-134575

“subject” - to bring under control or dominion, subjugate

to make (someone, such as oneself) amenable to the discipline and control of a superior

I used the words, “submit and humble” in my comment.

“submit” - to permit oneself to be subjected to something

to yield oneself to the authority or will of another : surrender

I hate to say this, Arauna, but the words were already in your mouth.

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

So you will never admit an error?..... because you say you are anointed you cannot make a mistake? 

Besides the fact that you are downplaying a mega corporation's leadership and their sins by attempting to shine the spotlight on a nobody, is laughable.  There's got to be a psychological label for this.  Can you find any words of mine that says I cannot make a mistake?  When we pray, do we not each day, and throughout the day, ask God for forgiveness for any sin we may have committed?   If I sinned against anyone, and I have, I approach them with my sin, asking for forgiveness. 

 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Strange how you stand up for this type of hierarchy when Paul was an apostle too - not only the 12 (the word apostle only means "sent out" ). 

 

God’s twelve apostles, with Christ, “judge” by the words of Christ.

He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.  John 12:48

Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.”  Rom 3:4

Paul is the twelfth apostle, chosen by Christ. 

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

The Truth is before you, however your Hatred for Jehovah's Witnesses keeps you from grasping it.

As I’ve said here before, if I had hate for JWs, I wouldn’t be here.  I would walk away from the whole lot of you.  If we care about someone, and we know that person has made a grave error that will affect their life, we would speak up, right?  I have “brothers and sisters” in the organization that I care for.  I know they need to hear Christ’s truths.  Rev 11:1-3

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Yet, Paul had to do that to gain God's approval. He HUMBLY accepted that he was wrong and turned his zeal toward preaching the Good News of God's Kingdom (just as all Jehovah's Witnesses do) and resisting apostates who pervert the truth and the Way.

 

 

 All true disciples of Christ must humbly accept what they have done wrong in their worship and how they live their lives.  It is the refinement that these days impresses upon us.  God’s priesthood of “Levi”, languish in the organization; quiet, and spiritually robbed of the individual personal sacrifices necessary to give to God. Mal 3:1-3) (Dan 8:12,13; Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4)  They speak the same language as false christs do.  Matt 24:24; Rev 13:16-18; 2 Thess 2:9-12  And it is all lies. 

Every one of us, must stand in front of Christ, giving testimony to what and to whom we believe in.  If it is the arrangement of the organization, and not the “arrangement” in God’s spiritual organization/Temple of God, we will be found as idolaters.  If we put our faith in an organization and not God alone, we will be found as idolaters.  This is why Michael, whose name means “Who is like God?” stands up in the last days, to alert his servants to their sins and the need for repentance.   Dan 12:1; Rev 11:1-3; Rev 2:19-21; 4-6; 14,15; 3:18; 18:4-8

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

As I’ve said here before, if I had hate for JWs, I wouldn’t be here. 

That is exactly why you are here to try to influence the weak and feeble minded with tons of misquoted or misapplied scripture!

It is a compulsion which cannot be contained - I have seen this OCD before.  I had the most loving brother -  21 years younger than me. He was my child. He came in the truth for only 2 years. Brilliant and gifted. He read Dawkin's books and the next thing ...... he had all the symptoms you have!  Same!  I recognise the symptoms immediately. Different in approach but same symptoms.

It broke my heart to live through it. 

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

God’s priesthood of “Levi”, languish in the organization; quiet, and spiritually robbed of the individual personal sacrifices necessary to give to God

You can do preaching work as a woman but no! You want a more important role!  You will not admit it.... but you want prominence. That is your Achilles heel. 

I have said so before and your complaints against GB bear it out very clearly.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Every one of us, must stand in front of Christ, giving testimony to what and to whom we believe

I do it in the field and in my answers at the hall .... and I confess my faith in prayer - where no-one can see me!

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, Witness said:

Can you imagine Paul or any of the apostles submitting to your GB leaders, in that example? 

Imagine a day, when 1st century GB and 20th, 21st century GB meet each other (or to be as guests at Annual Meeting of Corporation) and start to discuss how congregation have to look and functioning?  And of course, Paul come there latter to join them into reasoning. :))

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

You can do preaching work as a woman but no! You want a more important role!  You will not admit it.... but you want prominence. That is your Achilles heel. 

This made old-new perspective on this forum and for this forum.

Is it allowed to any female here to go into "deep and deeper discussions" about subjects that arose as topics? Does this mean how we, who are males, are only one who have "privilege" for participation and challenge each other standpoints and thinking?

Female person, according to @Arauna  in this comment, suggesting how women are not permitted to argue in "important subjects" aka almost all Topics, but only to Preach essential message (perhaps standing with tablet or magazines) and not going into doctrinal dilemmas and instructional, organizational issues.

Dear Female Forum Members! Your participation in all sort of discussions is welcome and shows (proves) your need to have more important role in spiritual matters. 

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Female person, according to @Arauna  in this comment, suggesting how women are not permitted to argue in "

You are blatantly making up a falsehood. I did not say we cannot 'argue ' but I spoke about a need for 'prominence'.  Two different concepts. Below is what you quoted from what I said:

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You can do preaching work as a woman but no! You want a more important role!  You will not admit it.... but you want prominence. That is your Achilles heel. 

You rewrite what people say in a different way. I do not answer when you do this because you will do this again.