THE WATCHTOWER HISTORY OF GOG OF MAGOG

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Remember, this is your interpretation? Not facts entered by that institution's overall actions of wanting to apply Jesus first century teachings. You are the one calling the shots by judgement on what you believe God has dismissed.

Yet, you don't apply these same principles to other Christian religions, why?

An institution that, in an attempt to find out what Jesus meant when he said this or that, gives and imposes its own interpretations, is more dangerous than an individual who believes that such an institution is unreliable and that its influence should be guarded against.
This is the JW Open Club and that’s why we only deal with them. Same principles are useful/applicable to scan other religions too.

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

An institution is there to fortify a "gathering" of Christians in unity by their church. What kind of disaster do you believe the first century churches had that lead to their disappointment in Christ and the apostles?

There is not much to speculate about. These are people like us. And we are like them. So choose whatever you want. We have similar or the same situations that can be easily imagined.

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

eternal life

Experience shows that even people who believe in eternal life are not able to successfully lead / live their own short life, here and today. They wander in their imaginations about future eternal life believing it to be God’s will.
What do you think their eternal wandering under the supervision of today’s religious leaders would look like?

[Dmitar]

36 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

An institution that, in an attempt to find out what Jesus meant when he said this or that, gives and imposes its own interpretations, is more dangerous than an individual who believes that such an institution is unreliable and that its influence should be guarded against.

This is more of the same. You are calling the shots in judgment with your own interpretation. What you are applying, is also dangerous as an individual to you, no one else. The same outcome could be said and applied to your influence, and it should be guarded against, then.

41 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This is the JW Open Club and that’s why we only deal with them. Same principles are useful/applicable to scan other religions too.

This is an open forum that can be applied to any religion. There are several Religious forums here. I have not seen you post on those Christian forums. Just because this forum stipulates JW open forum should not be an excuse to vilify just one institution. If your problem is with Christianity, then treat all Christian institutions the same, here or anywhere where your animosity is projected.

50 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

There is not much to speculate about. These are people like us. And we are like them. So choose whatever you want. We have similar or the same situations that can be easily imagined.

What does that mean towards credibility, then? The same animosity reflected by the same individuals.

52 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Experience shows that even people who believe in eternal life are not able to successfully lead / live their own short life, here and today. They wander in their imaginations about future eternal life believing it to be God’s will.
What do you think their eternal wandering under the supervision of today’s religious leaders would look like?

You are projecting your personal feeling, since you have lost a faith you once had. This is not the kind of unity envisioned by Christ you have stopped to believe in. Each of us carry our own burden. It does no good to continue in a path that consumes our everyday life in bitterness, even if we have nothing better to do than to post. 

As humans, we should be better than that, even if we have lost our faith in our fallow man by any institution, or government. We obey without a cause to many things. Sadly, we draw the line when it comes to our own faith and personal salvation that will lead us to eternal life. None of us can escape that.

Enjoy your day by having a peaceful one.

[Dmitar]

Is This The Church That Jesus Had In Mind.mp4  

 

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Enjoy your day by having a peaceful one.

Thanks, you too.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 1/6/2022 at 7:46 PM, Dmitar said:

You are in league with @Patiently waiting for Truth, and @Pudgy to, only want to fight by being rude and obnoxious to sway the conversation to your kind of prevailing dark side. This is a sad pattern set by foolish people.

Thanks for the more compliments Dimmy. 

1 Corinthians 1:27 

Berean Study Bible
But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

So I don't mind you calling me foolish. 

[Dmitar]

On 1/3/2022 at 10:25 PM, Witness said:

Will any teaching by the Watchtower be proven as clear and truthful?  Think about it, JWs.  If this organization was blessed by God's Holy Spirit, would that Spirit mislead its leaders into telling a falsehood for over seventy years?  It was once proven that Gog was Satan; will it be proven in ten year's time that what was once CLEAR TRUTH about "Gog" now being a coalition of nation, will be found to be a falsehood?  

Speak evil of no man. Titus 3:2
IF once the soldiers of the cross would get the proper thought, that slander and evil speaking are assassinations of the character of another, and that defamation is robbery of another's good name, the sooner they will see this matter in its truly awful light as it must appear in the Lord's sight; and once seeing the matter from this true, divine standpoint must awaken the new creature to the greatest activity possible in the overcoming of such works of the flesh and of the devil. Each will seek to purge out the old leaven of malice and envy and strife and crookedness and evil speaking, that he may be pure in heart, a copy of the Lord.

[Witness]

When someone projects a doctrine to thousands of people, convincing them that what they claim is proven truth, but later is revealed as a lie...that act against truth is an assassination of character of the millions of people who believed the lie.  There is no righteousness in a lie.  None.  The governing leaders have no deep heart-felt concern, no compassion for the sake of the hearer. They display absolute slander against the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit by promoting their organization as "the truth".  

 

Incredibly, the eight compare themselves to the apostles. (2 Cor 11:13)  The word “apostle” describes one set forth as a special “commissioner of Christ”. Paul, “called to be an apostle”, (Rom 1:1) fulfilled this role as a teacher and a prophet given miraculous powers. If a JW would just compare Paul’s works to those of the governing leaders - their “fruits” (Matt 7:15,20), the absence of love for Christ’s anointed members, thus for Jesus Christ and Truth - the distinction between who is an ambassador of Christ and who is not, would be crystal clear. The distinction between truth and lies would be glaringly apparent to them. 

 Paul said the following words to Timothy, about his fellow workers, “the elect”: 

 “Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel, ⁹ for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained. ¹⁰ Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

¹¹ This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
¹² If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
¹³ If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.

¹⁴ Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. ¹⁵ Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. ¹⁶ But shun profane and  idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. ¹⁷ And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, ¹⁸ who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. ¹⁹ Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 2 Tim chapter 2

I said, "Will any teaching by the Watchtower be proven as clear and truthful?  Think about it, JWs.  If this organization was blessed by God's Holy Spirit, would that Spirit mislead its leaders into telling a falsehood for over seventy years?  It was once proven that Gog was Satan; will it be proven in ten year's time that what was once CLEAR TRUTH about "Gog" now being a coalition of nation, will be found to be a falsehood? "

 The apostle Paul said, "But shun profane and  idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. ¹⁷ And their message will spread like cancer.

The organization and its leadership who promote lies, is a cancerous growth.  A person with cancer can either ignore it and die, or do his best to fight against it's deathly hold, by seeking help.  Don't settle, JWs, for men who continue to fill your minds with doctrine that are of "no profit, to the ruin of the hearers".  Jesus is the "Way, the Truth and the Life".  Seek his words, not the words of liars.  John 14:6

 

 

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Speak evil of no man.

So tell me, did Jesus speak evil of the Pharisies ? OR, did Jesus only speak TRUTH ? 

If the sins of a man are made known as a warning to others, is that speaking evil of that man, or is it speaking truth ? 

Truth is not evil.  When crimes and sin have been commited by someone, it should be made known. 

 

[Dmitar]

3 hours ago, Witness said:

When someone projects a doctrine to thousands of people, convincing them that what they claim is proven truth, but later is revealed as a lie...that act against truth is an assassination of character of the millions of people who believed the lie.  There is no righteousness in a lie.  None.  The governing leaders have no deep heart-felt concern, no compassion for the sake of the hearer. They display absolute slander against the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit by promoting their organization as "the truth".  

I presented a video of a Baptist Pastor. Explain why this shouldn't be applied to other Christian institution, including Pearl Doxsey?

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Incredibly, the eight compare themselves to the apostles.

I believe this is your projection of them. However, can you give me an example where that institution's top spiritual leaders ever claimed to be apostles, or Christ like the Bishops, and the Pope?

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Paul said the following words to Timothy, about his fellow workers, “the elect”: 

Do you agree with this overview?

2 Timothy 2:24-25

1 Timothy 1:1-21

Overview

Paul wrote three brief letters to two young men he had trained for ministry. These letters, 1 and 2 Timothy, and Titus, are called the "Pastoral Epistles." Each was written between  A.D. 64-67, near the end of Paul's life. Second Timothy dates during Paul's second imprisonment in Rome, just months before his execution.

Neither Timothy nor Titus were what we today would call "pastors." Each was, however, a young leader who traveled to churches in various cities of provinces when problems emerged, or special guidance was needed. We can sense a number of the problems they had to deal with by reading Paul's instructions to them: problems ranging from selection of local leaders, to order in the churches, to confronting heresy, to maintaining a stress on godliness and good works.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

I said, "Will any teaching by the Watchtower be proven as clear and truthful?  Think about it, JWs.  If this organization was blessed by God's Holy Spirit, would that Spirit mislead its leaders into telling a falsehood for over seventy years?  It was once proven that Gog was Satan; will it be proven in ten year's time that what was once CLEAR TRUTH about "Gog" now being a coalition of nation, will be found to be a falsehood? "

Once again, this would be your interpretation and projection of an institution. Can you explain, once again, why it wouldn't apply to other institutions by which you claim by your interpretation of the Holy Spirit of misleading leaders, that would include your spiritual leader Pearl Doxsey? I remind you of the video. Let's not push that aside, since it was meant to be a prime example.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

The organization and its leadership who promote lies, is a cancerous growth.  A person with cancer can either ignore it and die, or do his best to fight against it's deathly hold, by seeking help.  Don't settle, JWs, for men who continue to fill your minds with doctrine that are of "no profit, to the ruin of the hearers".  Jesus is the "Way, the Truth and the Life".  Seek his words, not the words of liars.  John 14:6

How does your severe projection of this institution leaders be considered a spiritual growth and something that Jesus taught? 

NIV 2 Tim 2:8-15

8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9 for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God's word is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory. 

11 Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,
we will also live with him; 
12 if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us; 
13 if we are faithless,
he will remain faithful,
for he cannot disown himself. 

14 Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 

 

[Dmitar]

@Srecko Sostar I noticed you agree with witness. If you're ready to act on your own behalf and reenter the conversation, please do so. Don't project your sentiment on the words of others.

@Patiently waiting for Truth I am ignoring you, since you cannot be civil, and this site appears it doesn't ban such behavior. When you're ready to be civil and not rude and obnoxious like so many Jehovah Witnesses are here, I will listen to what you have to say, not before. Thank you.

[Witness]

9 hours ago, Witness said:

Incredibly, the eight compare themselves to the apostles.

On the Wt's website, the words "governing body" and "apostles" are mentioned in the same article, 523 times.  192 times in the same paragraph; 119 times in the same sentence.  The seed was planted early on, that the present Governing Body, are today's apostles. 

"The Governing Body follows the pattern set by “the apostles and elders in Jerusalem” in the first century, who made important decisions on behalf of the entire Christian congregation. (Acts 15:2) Like those faithful men, the members of the Governing Body are not the leaders of our organization. They look to the Bible for guidance, acknowledging that Jehovah God has appointed Jesus Christ as the Head of the congregation. Frequently Asked Questions About Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 41

Like the first-century apostles and elders in Jerusalem, the Governing Body gives direction to the global congregation. Enjoy Life Forever!—An Interactive Bible Course p. 83

"But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve in his craftiness, so your minds might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus, whom we didn’t preach, or if you receive a different spirit, which you didn’t receive, or a different “good news”, which you didn’t accept, you put up with that well enough. 5 For I reckon that I am not at all behind the very best apostles. 

But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from those who desire an occasion, that in which they boast, they may be found even as we. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as Christ’s apostles. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is no great thing therefore if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works."  2 Cor 11

I'd hate to be in the shoes of the GB when they face not only Jesus Christ, but his genuine apostles.  Jesus said to them, "Most certainly I tell you that you who have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on the throne of his glory, you also will sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."  Matt  19:28

 

[Dmitar]

@Witness 

The reason I ask about why shouldn't Pearl Doxsey be included in your projection of false teachings being a cancer? I ask in the strength of her own theological understanding.

In her blog, she made a comment, and I will quote it here on a question she was asked. Since you quote a great many things from that institution you shoulder animosity toward as a faithful Christian, I don’t think, her post will be seen as copyright infringement here as well.

“The "Remaining Ones"

I needed to post this forum question here, because the forum of origin did not allow the lengthy response necessary to reply

 Here is the question I received:

Let me ask you this question. Who are the Holy ones who exist on the earth, at the end of the one thousand years of Jesus reign of peace? As they are obviously here on the earth during that time period.

 Revelation 20

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

------------------

MY REPLY:

Your scriptural reference highlights a gaping hole in the wall of WT doctrine. They teach that the "144000" are taken up to heaven before the Thousand Years begins. Yet scripture makes clear, that they rule with Christ, on the earth. (Rev.5:9,10) As important as it is to adjust where they rule, it is even more important to discern when the "Thousand Years" takes place, and when they rule with Christ.

 Can you explain how this person is promoting Christ teachings by implying a false narrative in her response?

 I noticed she subscribes to the blue letter bible, which in turn profits from the sale of products and donations. Since Pearl Doxsey endorsed that bible, how is it, it cannot be linked to her mission? How would that differ with that of this institution you're so critical of?