1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses

[Anna]

 

4 minutes ago, AnonymousBrother said:

likely longer as medical tech advances.

Lol!

I've always liked what one father said to his daughter (quoted in one WT): "plan ahead as if Armageddon won't come in your lifetime, but live your life as if it will come tomorrow"

I apologise to those who have heard me say this numerous times before.

[Anna]

8 minutes ago, AnonymousBrother said:

Pointed out not to ignore things like retirement plans, etc., because this overlapping stuff could easily drag on another 100 years-

Hey! Was that in the outline?

[AnonymousBrother]

1 minute ago, Anna said:

Hey! Was that in the outline?

It wasn't. It was an assignment to show biblical references for proper planning.

Supposed to last 6 minutes. Took about 10 (my wife is not native speaker). No one complained and the elders just said "I never thought of it that way."

Amazing what you can do with Scriptures and a little math . . .

[Anna]

1 minute ago, AnonymousBrother said:

It wasn't. It was an assignment to show biblical references for proper planning.

Supposed to last 6 minutes. Took about 10 (my wife is not native speaker). No one complained and the elders just said "I never thought of it that way."

Amazing what you can do with Scriptures and a little math . . .

I don't know about you, but I have not noticed any discussions about the overlapping generation among the friends. And in my very close circle of friends, most have admitted they have not payed much attention to it, and some even say they do not believe it. Have you found anything similar?

[AnonymousBrother]

1 minute ago, Anna said:

I don't know about you, but I have not noticed any discussions about the overlapping generation among the friends. And in my very close circle of friends, most have admitted they have not payed much attention to it, and some even say they do not believe it. Have you found anything similar?

Not here. In Asia things are more dedicated. How the "next phase" is calculated is not that important. They can mostly talk about it, but pay less attention to the details than the result: "Wait. Not time yet."

I'm moving back to the US in a couple of weeks (been in Asia 24 years). But even then, the congregation I will be attending aren't that fixated on "how" just "when" (sorta speak).

[Anna]

3 minutes ago, AnonymousBrother said:

I'm moving back to the US in a couple of weeks (been in Asia 24 years)

Wow, big change! Welcome back

I have a friend who moved to China a year ago, "under cover".

[DefenderOTT]

57 minutes ago, Anna said:

Once the cat is out of the bag, you can't put it back in, no matter how hard you try.

Undoubtedly, but you seem to forget *who* actually *rang* that bell when they were told not to. Before 1914, the message was that they would not see Gods day. After 1914, the message was to fulfill prophecy by preaching and teaching. By 1921, the message of *millions now living will never die* was meant for those that could apply their loyalty to Jehovah even unto death, their mortal souls would rest, until the resurrection, and judgment. All these things, have been misunderstood by many witnesses. So, the only provision in scripture is to have faith in the one he sent. Scripture is clear, while man’s thoughts aren’t.  follow in Jesus footsteps, not your own.

(Isaiah 22:12-14) In that day the Sovereign Lord, Jehovah of armies, Will call for weeping and mourning, for shaved heads and the wearing of sackcloth. ¹³ But instead, there is celebration and rejoicing, the killing of cattle and the slaughtering of sheep, the eating of meat and the drinking of wine. ‘Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we will die.’” ¹⁴ Then Jehovah of armies revealed himself in my ears: “‘This error will not be atoned in your behalf until you people die,’ says the Sovereign Lord, Jehovah of armies.”

(Ecclesiastes 8:14-17) There is something futile that takes place on the earth: There are righteous people who are treated as if they had acted wickedly, and there are wicked people who are treated as if they had acted righteously. I say that this too is futility. ¹⁵ So I recommended rejoicing, because there is nothing better for man under the sun than to eat and drink and rejoice; this should accompany him as he works hard during the days of his life, which the true God gives him under the sun. ¹⁶ I applied my heart to acquire wisdom and to see all the activity happening on the earth, even going without sleep day and night. ¹⁷ Then I considered all the work of the true God, and I realized that mankind cannot comprehend what happens under the sun. No matter how hard men try, they cannot comprehend it. Even if they claim that they are wise enough to know, they cannot really comprehend it.

[Anna]

29 minutes ago, DefenderOTT said:

All these things, have been misunderstood by many witnesses

I don't see why. Unless all those things were spoken in riddles. Which they weren't. 

[DefenderOTT]

3 minutes ago, Anna said:

I don't see why. Unless all those things were spoken in riddles.

Those are the many mysteries of life. Why people do things out of impulse, rather than see things for what they really, are. God makes the rules, not man.

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Anna said:

"plan ahead as if

Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow.

Take care of your body as if you were going to live forever; and take care of your soul as if you were going to die tomorrow. 

Smile like you’ve never cried, fight like you’ve never lost, love like you’ve never been hurt, and live like you’ll die tomorrow.

 

 

 

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Sì, il primario, driver specifico del problema è il fatto che il fratello Splane ha già sottolineato il fatto che "gruppo 2" sono sempre "lassù" negli anni, e indicò persone specifiche come esempi, mostra come molte delle i primi esempi di "gruppo 2" sono già morti. Ma mentre questo è il driver ci sono, sì, penso che ci sono un paio di elementi generali che uniscono e catalizzano per fornire il combustibile per la trasmissione di questo veicolo.

Uno di questi elementi generali è un sottile tentativo di "radunare i gatti" di nuovo in una penna più ben definito di nuovo. L'idea di obbedire ciò che potremmo non capire ora è stato implicitamente ripetuto almeno tre volte di recente in vari contesti. Nel 1966, quando il primo problema è iniziato, eravamo come un gruppo, ancora più uniti nel pensiero di quanto lo fossimo nel 1925, quando alcuni fratelli venduto la loro proprietà e questioni finanziarie create per se stessi. Non tutti, la vita, naturalmente, ma migliaia sono stati altrettanto uniti nel pensiero, come nel 1914, quando le persone erano più o meno conto alla rovescia per il mese e il giorno molto sulle loro carte di conto alla rovescia al 1 ° ottobre, 1914. Molti in quel momento di proprietà venduti e persino comprato polizze assicurative per fornire per i loro parenti "non russellite", quando sarebbero stati presi. La differenza era che, intorno al 1975, non eravamo' t cercando di giorno specifico questa volta, ma per un breve periodo di tempo di pochi mesi, non anni, dopo il 1975, quando il 6 ° giorno creativo sarebbe esaurito. (Naturalmente, fratelli erano solo disposti ad aspettare fino a circa dicembre 1975 prima di dimenticare)

Il 2018 Assemblea Circuito discorso sull'uso dei social media è un altro esempio di "herding i gatti."

There is a story that runs on the Internet, including Facebook channels of Jehovah's Witnesses, which mentions an overseer's speech.

Obviously I can not know if it is reality or if the speech has been "inflated".
However, there is certainly something true.

He basically says something like this: "I would like to let you know how the Governing Body feels.We work close to the Governing Body and we know it.The Governing Body feels we are very close to the time of the end.

Do you know what Matthew 24:14 says? Do you know how many countries are missing to reach all the inhabited earth? Only 3 countries "

Obviously I paraphrased: these are not the exact words but this is the meaning.

It is obvious that "stretching the broth", sooner or later will come the end, is not it?

So, sooner or later, "do downtown."

The problem, however, is more serious than guess or a wrong date.

The problem is to understand if "the calculations" we make are in harmony with the scriptures or are personal, human visions.

I invite you to read Jeremiah 23: 1, 16
it is too easy and superficial to say "Those who abandoned the Truth in 1975 did not really love Jehovah."
Everyone will carry his weight and this is valid for those who have left the truth but also for those who have taught falsehood.
Indeed the Scripture says that "the masters" will receive a more severe judgment.

If all that has been written in the past was written to "our instruction," we should find similarities or at least guidelines to understand if our concept of "short time left" or "generation" is correct.

When Jesus spoke of the end of the system of things said "this generation will not pass at all" - Mark 13:30

For a moment, we forget everything that has been said about this writing (and the word "generation") and focus on the Jewish system.

There is no doubt that the Lord spake also this fact, and this is one of the reasons why certain opponents dispute the "sign of the end times."

By mentioning the armies camped and pointed stakes and many other things related to the first century (things that came true) it is clear that at least part of the sign concerned the destruction of the Jewish system, including the Temple - Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14; Luke 21:20

So we must start from the principle that the generation that would not pass, at least in the first fulfillment of this prophecy, was the generation that would see the war and the armies camped on Jerusalem or the present generation at the time of the Lord (which on balance is always the same generation).

Saying "this generation," Jesus could mean "this present day."

In any case, the times do not change, because in the words of the Lord until the destruction of Jerusalem passed less than forty years, and therefore comes in that generation - see Luke 23: 28-31

In the second case, from the time when Christians saw "the armies camped" spent three and a half years.

We can assume, honestly, that the Christians of the first century did much debate on the concept of "generation" which could be their or someone else's, or maybe the Lord would mean "generations"?

It is not reasonable to believe.

Christ's disciples understood the Lord's words exactly what they were.

Even if they could not know exactly "day and time" knew that their generation was.

All these "problems" would not exist if we had the humility to re-discuss the "start date" of this "incomprehensible generation".

A single error always leads to other errors.

The problem is not "a date wrong" but the attitude of subjection that is created towards a certain guide.
And this will lead to an adverse judgment.
What is the use of knowing "when the end comes" if our expectations are wrong?

[JW Insider]

9 hours ago, AnonymousBrother said:

I gave a talk about the "overlapping generations" when it was "new".

Pointed out not to ignore things like retirement plans, etc., because this overlapping stuff could easily drag on another 100 years--likely longer as medical tech advances.

Jehovah has his own time frame.

We were told to be ready at any time for the fan to be hit. We weren't told to jump the gun. As many seemed want to do.

Hey AnonymousBrother. Great to see you back!!! And hopefully coming back to the States will be a good move, too. I've heard you tell of your retirement planning talk in the past. Although you are right about the math supporting it, there are congregations where such talk will not be so welcome, of course. I imagine you raised a few eyebrows when you first talked about "100 years" more in this old system of things. That's going to be seen as "apostate" talk in some circles.

But even this idea that the math can support "100 years" potentially produces exactly the problem we had in 1975. We all acknowledge that the end can come at any time, that's a given. But the "overlapping generation" math, even when using maximum ages of 120, and an "anointing" acknowledged as early as age 15, doesn't extend forever. (Could stretch to 2124.) But what happens if you were asked to give that same talk 50 years from now? The math would only support a maximum that's closer to 50 years. And what happens 90 years from now? The math would only support a number closer to 10 more years. That's the same thing that started in 1966, when the system was expected to go on for only 10 to 15 more years.

Brother Splane once laughed about persons who might be sitting at the JW Broadcasting desk years down the road after he's gone, so I know he's thought of the possibility. According to the "Watchtower," as I'm sure you already know, Brother Russell started to lose faith in 1914 near the end of 1913 and early in the year 1914, and he also began speculating about how people might look back and laugh "100 years from now" on what he had been predicting. 

On the Long Island Rail Road a few years ago, I spoke to a "Harold Camping" guy who, along with his wife, had quit their jobs because it was May 20, and only ONE day before their BIG day. I told him about our religion and 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, and 1925 and 1975, and how you have to consider what you will do if the end doesn't come as expected. I asked if he had thought about the kind of counseling members of his faith might need on May 22 if it doesn't happen. He spoke to me about how this new date was not wrong, and it would show a grave lack of faith to be considering the possibility that it wouldn't happen. I told him about Mt 24:36; Acts 1:7, and 1Th 5:1, and that Harold Camping was wrong about his "end date" on a previous occasion, and this man was completely prepared to handle those objections. He had a whole CD of information he was giving out that explained May 21, 2011 and had a good explanation for what went wrong on a previous prediction. I gave him my number and told him I'd be happy to talk to him on May 22.

At least Russell had been able to imagine people laughing at him 100 years down the road (2014). And many brothers that I knew were not taking 1975 very seriously either. This included my father, who even got in trouble for kind of letting that slip in a circuit assembly talk. Although my mother was a great believer in 1975, my father had a serious talk with me about 1975, confiding some of his objections about the fact that I was quitting school early to begin regular pioneering. He was of the opinion that we can believe it and be excited about it, but that it could be an embarrassment and reflect badly on Jehovah and his organization if we didn't count the cost, and consider all the possibilities before making a decision that we might "kick ourselves" for, looking back.