24 YEAR OLD BETHELITE WOMAN RECENTLY DISFELLOWSHIPPED FOR APOSTASY COMMITS SUICIDE!

[TrueTomHarley]

7 minutes ago, b4ucuhear said:

However, by extension, we also apply it to the great crowd. It would be dangerous however to set ourselves up as being in the judgment seat of God and decide for ourselves that people whom we may disagree with (or are in fact wrong) can't make changes before they die or merit everlasting destruction. It would be pretty dangerous to throw that around lightly in this kind of venue.

Yes. It is a good reproof. I have endeavored to mitigate that remark elsewhere, saying we never know for sure who that verse fits. But it a point worth repeating.

[b4ucuhear]

On 7/31/2017 at 11:07 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

There comes a time when one must suck it up and move on - either stay or leave, but move on.

Is that what I should have told my sister? My younger sister was sexually molested by an elder. She stayed despite that without making waves, until she started to see other things she found deeply disturbing and then she did "move on" as you say. Actually, she shouldn't have "moved on" because later on, most of the elders (the bad ones) were either removed or disfellowshipped - half of them were apostate (but that's not all they were up to). Of course nobody wanted to believe anything (even with concrete evidence) since they were regulars on the circuit assembly platform and on even on the district convention. It took about 10 years to sort itself out (should have been much quicker considering the evidence), but it did, (although it took other elders to step in and do what actually had to be done.) Still, 1 Timothy 5:24 will prove to be true if you wait, in one way or another. 

[TrueTomHarley]

19 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

the JW-Archive .org has shifted platforms and locations several times ... and once AGAIN you have demonstrated your predilection for irrelevancy when challenged to "walk the walk".

Yes. Every time @The Librarian has fallen off the wagon. How can you be so insensitive? I was trying to spare her the humiliation, not reminding everyone. She was once a woman of substance, after all. (She still is, but it is from all those donuts - not the same thing)

[TrueTomHarley]

 

2 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

Of course nobody wanted to believe anything (even with concrete evidence) since they were regulars on the circuit assembly platform and on even on the district convention.

"This ‘superfine apostle’ in the 2 Corinthians 11:5 mold was a big honcho in the HVAC world and would freeze everyone out of the Kingdom Hall because he liked it cool - even locking the thermostat so nobody not under his control could touch it. One elderly sister declared she would no longer attend meetings – where was the love?

"It developed that this man planned to poison his wife so as to move in with another woman, and all the while maintain his position in the congregation. Joe Merlin sniffed him out in a heartbeat. ‘How can you guys be so naïve?’ he cried before one Body of Elders who could not believe what was right before them. But when the dust at last settled, one of them approached him: ‘You’re right, Joe - we are naïve.’ Sometimes Jehovah’s people are naïve. They are the ‘sons of the light’ whom the ‘sons of this system of things’ do end runs around."

From the chapter 'Dirty Rotten Lowlifes' in 'No Fake News But Plenty of Hogwash.'

[Guest J.R. Ewing]

3 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

Are you kidding me? Someone disagrees with you and you come up with that nonsense? My intention has always been to help people stay active and in the truth, despite the things that have stumbled many.

Please, the nonsense comes from the flip-flop you do with understanding the Watchtower, and scripture. It appears JWinsider sold you a bill of goods that you now accept with the year 1914. Then if false applications of scripture are considered learning, find someone that can really teach the proper way to serve in an organization you and others are criticizing. The FACT that you have people like JWinsider, and Anna like your post is proof enough.

Proverbs 12:15-17

[Guest J.R. Ewing]

3 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

Is that what I should have told my sister? My younger sister was sexually molested by an elder.

Child Molestation is a horrific crime by anyone's standard. The Watchtower through decades has given examples through the publications to learn to care for the children. People like "ANNA" believe the governing body was comprised to hold everyone's hand. Did Jesus? Did the Apostles? NO! they gave instruction!!!!!!!

You're NOT the only one that has experienced an act that is detrimental to someone's life. In my culture, regardless of the judicial committee making a decision to keep the Christian Congregation clean, they also advised having the secular authority handle the criminality aspect of this serious situation.

Did your family adhere to such advice? If it wasn't given, Parents have the obligation to pursue a serious allegation. If the police are not able to prove the allegation, then it's time to move on! if an allegation was made by malice to cause harm to another, then, the accused could sue the victim. These are 2 separate issues.

I understand, here, people complain that the Watchtower hides things and that they are Corrupted and give the wrong direction.

1. The responsibility for the children are the parents. Based on Scripture.

2. The Governing Body is there to dispense spiritual food, NOT to PLAY LAWYERS!!!! Based on Scripture, and common sense

3.The Elders are there to keep the congregation clean. Based on scripture.

4. Secular authority policies are dealt with as they are presented. Democratic government.

The problem here is half truths are given to incite. Who gave anyone here the right to decide for another, and speak ill of an organization that adheres to the laws of the land, but most importantly God's law.

 

[Anna]

54 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

. People like "ANNA" believe the governing body was comprised to hold everyone's hand. Did Jesus? Did the Apostles? NO! they gave instruction!!!!!!!

Yes, instruction is fine, but with this instruction comes honesty. For years we have bashed the Catholic church for shutting their eyes to child sexual molestation. Although our situation is different to that of the Catholic church,  we are not immune to those in authority using their position to get away with such things as child molestation, wife beating etc. Although not prolific like opposers would make out, still, in the words of our own organization "one molested child is one too many". The facts are; there have been elders and ministerial servants who have sexually molested children, and who have got away with it for a long time because no one would believe something like this could ever happen in our organization, after all we ARE Jehovah's organization! I do not believe the GB should hold our hands, just admitting this problem does exist in Jehovah's organization would suffice. Sooner or later this admission will be made, but the longer it's evaded, the worse the results will be as there will be a lot of publishers who will wonder why this information has been withheld for so long.....

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, J.R. Ewing said:

. In my culture, regardless of the judicial committee making a decision to keep the Christian Congregation clean,

He is from far away. "In my culture," he says. Cut him slack on that account, or learn from him.

If he is from Africa, for example, @Arauna once observed that children and young women are raped there routinely with no one at all to stand up for them. Outrage over sexual molestation appears to be a privilege of the monied lands. Imagine how strange a brother from that different place and culture might find this discussion.

Of course, this is just guesswork based upon a phrase and a unique way of reasoning. I may be all wet. Perhaps he is from North Dakota.

 

[SuziQ1513]

11 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Perhaps a new thread is in order since these topic has been highjacked to debate suicide instead of questionable news from an ex-bethelite.

Yes I agree!! Please start a new thread.   I'm disappointed with the egg and tomato fights here.

11 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Librarian]

Let's have everyone start to use the threaded discussion area below for their tit for tat petty accusations rather than make posts on the thread....

At least those will be threaded and won't hijack a post thematically.

Could we all learn to post the most substantive "stuff" here as posts and regular comments and side arguments in the threaded comments area?

Thanking everyone in advance.

 

[b4ucuhear]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Body of Elders who could not believe what was right before them.

I respect you for that. Knowing bad things can happen yet having the strength of faith and character to stay - as you seem - spiritually strong in the truth. Might I ask you to share with us what enables you to maintain your faith and dedication despite faith testing situations (whether you were personally in that congregation or not?)

51 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He is from far away. "In my culture," he says. Cut him slack on that account, or learn from him.

That's a kind suggestion I hadn't thought of and worth noting. I've been to Africa (much of the world actually), and while I haven't personally witnessed such atrocities, I know they exist there in certain places. You could be right. Maybe that's what's affected him.

[b4ucuhear]

2 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Please, the nonsense comes from the flip-flop you do with understanding the Watchtower, and scripture. It appears JWinsider sold you a bill of goods that you now accept with the year 1914.

Not sure that not being dogmatic about 1914 qualifies as a "flip flop." (In fact I am sure it doesn't - despite how you try to spin it.) Note truthfully that I am not against that date either - as you dishonestly try to make it appear. Here is my take on it and why I have very little interests in dates anyway - any of them. I didn't dedicate my life to a date. Not 1975; not 1922 or several others that haven't panned out; not even 1914. If some tie their faith to that it's up to them. But if Armageddon doesn't come when I expect it; or I don't live to see the fulfillment of earthly promises...that's fine. I'm in good company with many other faithful men who loved and worshipped Jehovah even though they didn't get to see the fulfillment of the reward. I know Jehovah's promises are sure to be fulfilled, and while I believe that time is soon, if it should delay, I'll just patiently wait. That's all. It's not about my salvation anyway. It's about living a life that honours Jehovah and proves Satan a liar - that when things get tough and I experience Job-like tests of faith I'll face those tests with dignity faith and integrity (although some stuff was VERY difficult, so I don't want to sound like more than I am). Job was a better man then me. So was David, Jeremiah, Joseph, Jesus, Isaiah and others whose examples were models for me to follow in dark times.