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Suicide. God's view. Organisation's view


Patiently waiting for Truth

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2 hours ago, Tom Henry said:

Even the apostle Paul understood his limitation to know who God would judge. The keyword here is highlighted. Why would the word “some” be important.

I thought your post made a lot of good points. We know about God's mercy but we don't want to purposely take advantage of it for selfish purposes. (Of course, we can never get into the mind of the person committing suicide to know whether they were motivated by selfishness, even if the person leaves a lucid note. We leave it to Jehovah to read hearts.)

Also, wanted to point out that Paul never used the word "some" (in case anyone would have read your words to imply that). Either way, though, I think your point is still valid. 

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No new light, just the elder's opinion, and not a very good one at that. It still stands that Jehovah will be the judge as he knows the reasons and circumstance.

1.)  Jesus was on a mission that required him to walk into a trap, and be executed. He willingly did this knowing he would die, in a manner most painfull, where agony is an understated word. In t

Don't think it is new light. Don't be disturbed by anything you hear. Start doing research.  It is easy when you are on the computer. People in the organization always used to think one would not

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He (Tom Henry) probably used "some" in his explanation because the scripture says all unrighteousness is sin.  The scriptures also show that there is a sin that incurs death and that we would not expect God to cover over. (See Hebrews 10;26) Therefore the apostle John said not to make request about that kind of sin.  That is permanent death.

(1 John 5:16, 17) 16 If anyone catches sight of his brother committing a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and God will give life to him, yes, to those not committing sin that incurs death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and yet there is a sin that does not incur death.

(Hebrews 10:26) For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left,...
=====

This is what I gather about suicide or self murder from my research in the Bible itself.

(Genesis 9:6) 6 Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image He made man.

 (Proverbs 28:17) 17 A man burdened with bloodguilt for taking someone’s life will keep fleeing until the grave. Let no one support him.

 Both of these remedies would be difficult to achieve for a man taking his own life. So there is a difference in taking your own life and taking someone else’s life.

So it boils down to the same thing - you have to leave it to God.

God knows whether it is forgivable or whether it is willful and wanton, disrespecting the Creator and life itself.

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Guest Tom Henry

The main thing, God will know the reason why. The biggest factor to consider is Exodus 20:13, Deuteronomy 5:17

Didn’t Jesus himself quote from the Old Testament? Matthew 19:17-18

What is anger and reconciliation in Matthew 5:21 all of which apostle Paul well understood as “some” that committed an act against God’s creation would be considered for judgment as did Christ.

With sociology, we need to understand when the word “suicide” was invented. Self-murder can be more appropriate to align our knowledge with scripture with a greater degree in understanding.

https://academic.oup.com/jsh/article-abstract/46/3/620/908916?redirectedFrom=PDF

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/philosophy/article/suicide-and-selfmurder/2C862F7D9DC18AC9BEE68DA5E3334814

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1109529?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

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9 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

If you do commit suicide, make sure you have 2 witnesses, then maybe you'll be resurrected.

Or maybe.....not

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

if there was very 'new light' from the Governing Body on this subject. 

Not really, although the old light is a lot newer than the very old light that you quoted..................

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No, the whole thing is that we are talking about something we have no control over. We neither gave life or the life we can take can either be given back by us.. so let us acquiesce to the very one the only One who can remember those worthy to be recalled from the grave. And do our very best to be around to see these called from the memorial tombs. All this now is worthless chatter, because we may ourselves be in need of that very hope before it is over!

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19 minutes ago, John Houston said:

No, the whole thing is that we are talking about something we have no control over. We neither gave life or the life we can take can either be given back by us.. so let us acquiesce to the very one the only One who can remember those worthy to be recalled from the grave. And do our very best to be around to see these called from the memorial tombs. All this now is worthless chatter, because we may ourselves be in need of that very hope before it is over!

I was only asking the present view of suicide from the Organisational point of view.  

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12 hours ago, Anna said:

Like it really matters though 😀

@Anna Well if the GB are right and only those baptised JW's will survive the Judgement time at Armageddon, then one would have to be thinking in line with the Org's thoughts. And as I said originally the 'information' or misinformation was given to me by an elder. Elders are supposed to be up to date with all the latest thoughts coming forth from the top HQ, the GB.  As it matters to me personally because I have hopes of some that have committed suicide getting a resurrection, then I am interested to know how those 'taking the lead'  feel on this subject.   I do find it strange that when i ask such a straight forward question, I cannot get a straight answer. Many here seem to be long standing JW's, some probably are elders, so all I was wanting was a clear answer on the subject.  I must say Anna that your last comment does not show warm Christian love. 

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3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

@Anna Well if the GB are right and only those baptised JW's will survive the Judgement time at Armageddon, then one would have to be thinking in line with the Org's thoughts. And as I said originally the 'information' or misinformation was given to me by an elder. Elders are supposed to be up to date with all the latest thoughts coming forth from the top HQ, the GB.  As it matters to me personally because I have hopes of some that have committed suicide getting a resurrection, then I am interested to know how those 'taking the lead'  feel on this subject.   I do find it strange that when i ask such a straight forward question, I cannot get a straight answer. Many here seem to be long standing JW's, some probably are elders, so all I was wanting was a clear answer on the subject.  I must say Anna that your last comment does not show warm Christian love. 

I am sorry, you misunderstood what I meant. I understand your concern about what the GB think, as they are supposed to be providing food at the proper time, and we are supposed to trust that this food is faultless. But sometimes it isn't. We know that although doing their best, the GB can still make mistakes. In that case, what is ultimately more important than what the GB says or thinks, is what Jehovah says and thinks. This is what I had in mind. By reading several related scriptures it becomes evident that the answer to your concern is that we have to leave it in Jehovahs hands, fully trusting that he is the reader of hearts and is perfectly just and loving, and would NEVER destroy anyone unjustly, even if in our opinion they did the most horrible things. So within this framework, it really doesn't matter what the GB think. Again I apologize, I really did not mean it to sound unloving, just factual. 

So when you mention that we have to be in line with the orgs. thoughts, yes, but first and foremost we have to be in line with Jehovah's thoughts.

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