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Jack Ryan

If God created the animals before Adam & Eve....and death and disease weren’t introduced to the world until Adam & Eve disobeyed God them please explain how this dinosaur had a tumor?

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Jack Ryan -
Outta Here -

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I was always taught that death and disease always had existed with the animals,. It was only humans that was granted everlasting life.

But this in itself means that the animals were created to suffer and die even though they never committed any sin. So God is a cruel sadist?

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According to our understanding of the bible, humans were the ONLY beings created in God’s image. Adam and Eve were the only “perfect” creation and therefore the only beings immune from sickness and death. Animals were always subject to sickness, disease, and death, so Dino-cancer does not conflict with JW doctrine at all.

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@The Librarian 

Whilst no publications state that suffering of animals started at the fall of Adam, there are loads of references stating that no animals feasted on each other until post Adamic sin..

There's loads of fossils that contradict this idea and the whole predator/prey concept which covers all aspects of animal species currently on earth also contradicts this teaching and has been in operation for millions of years.

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Death and sin entered the human world. Adam knew what death was because the animals would die, which means he was aware of his eventuality. ( How Adam would have understand what the consequences were if there was no death. Seems like it was in the knowledge book or something. Can't remember)

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Some, including Anglican clergymen, believe that animals only die because of Adam and Eve's rebellion and that  in the future animals will also live forever as they think they did in Eden. Some of these also believe that animals will be resurrected, regardless of the possibility of us being nose-deep in gerbils before long. They base it on Romans 8:21-22.

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On 10/26/2018 at 9:34 PM, The Librarian said:

Adam and Eve were the only “perfect” creation

This idea is questionable if you consider Bible as your Source of understanding, beliefs and faith.

After all and every single "Creative days" God came to conclusion how All that He created is/was GOOD. So, in according to His view, all animals and all humans are reached the same degree -  GOOD. At the end of every single day he saw how all is good. 

This word, -good-, perhaps have nothing with our "understanding" of "perfection" and ideas that we today, or JWorg, or some other people connecting with idea of so called "lost perfection" and what "perfection" can be, can mean and can carry in itself.

Our personal or/and socially-religious ideas as members of specific group, JWorg, and wishes about  what will be, what could be ... if this or that will come, is more in sphere of imagination and fantasy than in reality. So it is with idea of "lost perfection" and with "future perfection", too.   

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On 10/26/2018 at 9:37 PM, The Librarian said:

Death and sin entered the human world. Adam knew what death was because the animals would die, which means he was aware of his eventuality. ( How Adam would have understand what the consequences were if there was no death

According to some Bible verses and interpretations of them (JW org and Yours in comment), Death was already been/existed in Paradise Earth. According to this idea God is the one who Invented Death (in your interpretations only for animals, of all kind and sizes ....and plants to).

In this view (animal issue) Death is not penalty for Sin, as some other Bible verses explains. Death, for you, is Normal because God is source of death for major part of His creations aka animals .... and in some other Galaxy/ies also for some other species unknown to us, too.  

So, according to your view we have 2 sort of death in Genesis book. One is Natural and other is Unnatural. 

You gave idea how Adam would not be able to UNDERSTAND what death is if he could not see dying and death of animals around. This looks strange for me.

You are, and many in JW, told how Adam was PERFECT. So, how it is possible that Perfect Adam can not understand what death is? He has Perfect Brain, Perfect Senses, Perfect Imagination.....well it looks impossible that His Father was not Explain him What Death Is !!!! I guess they have had "perfect" Communication as Perfect Father and Perfect Son.   

Now is time to mention how Genesis book not reveling any important details about pedagogical and parental methods of The Father with His Son and Daughter. Just ban of eating, disappointed feelings and than punishment words are the only written conversations between Father and Children.   

If you find Adam as somebody who can not understand important things in life, as it is with issue of death, then I found understandable that his Father not spend more time with him to explain him how things looks and what is what in Perfect Paradise.

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5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So, according to your view we have 2 sort of death in Genesis book. One is Natural and other is Unnatural.

Yeah. 2Pet 2:12.


12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So, how it is possible that Perfect Adam can not understand what death is?

What connection can these two unrelated subjects (1. understanding of death. 2. Perfection) possibly have? None is the simple answer.

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3 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Yeah. 2Pet 2:12.


What connection can these two unrelated subjects (1. understanding of death. 2. Perfection) possibly have? None is the simple answer.

I can say a little pray for you to my unknown god ....

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