Was the Bible written and compiled for everyone to understand fully or only for a 'chosen few' to fully understand

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Gone away, yes you should have, long ago. 

True colours showing now, unfortunately. But the scripture always does that I find. Heb.4:12.

Don't worry. I'll leave you to your quest John Butler. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 hour ago, AllenSmith34 said:

It’s all in the wrist! This is why reason and wisdom come with understanding. Who gives us that understanding, Academia? Jesus never went to school to learn scripture. Academic Teachers? The Pharisees knew the laws. Therefore, what was the point of just knowing the laws? The term practice what you preach sounds reasonable. Romans 12:8-10

Acts 1:8 King James Version (KJV)

⁸ But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Luke 24:45-49 King James Version (KJV)⁴⁵ Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

⁴⁶ And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

⁴⁷ And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

⁴⁸ And ye are witnesses of these things.

⁴⁹ And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

 

And your point is ?

Please don't just slap scriptures all over the screen like 'Gone Away' does. 

It means nothing. It proves nothing. It is not helpful in any way. 

I'm sure even the Pope could quote scripture. 

 

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 

I'm sure even the Pope could quote scripture. 

Hm. That is likely true.

[Space Merchant]

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

OH yes so clear. So clear, that there are hundreds if not thousands of so called Christian denominations earthwide.

If it was clear, why state the obvious? Also it is in the thousands. and among the thousands there is only a few who actual recognize the early church, they strive to be like it, they attempt it, they fail at it and or ignore it. Some denominations no longer exist for they have ceased and or died out, I believe I posted a list somewhere before, but around that time I was talking about calamity, such as mass earthquakes and the like.

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The JW's being one of the smallest. 

Restorationist Christain are pretty much a small, but also big, minority, however this group, as an organized religion, is not little or is it big. They are sitting at, just putting JWs all on the same boat, about 8.5 million, they had several thousand increase in a small span of time and might hit anywhere between 8.6-9 million. I also like to say it is the JWs only, if you include those who are with them as in guests, students and so forth, it is in the 20 million range, possibly higher. I would say the reason for this is because mainstream Christendom is declining so you have people going into other denominations in the minorities, on the other side of the spectrum, you have Islam, which is, possibly bigger and also growing, and may surpass the mainstream, granted it is said, spoken of mid 2015 as it being a main contender to mainstream Christianity.

Restorationist Christians who are not tied to any denomination, it is hard to tell for these folk because they, literally live off-grid, examples who be this one guy I posted a video about here who had been off the grid for so long he was absent for 8 years, rumored to have been dead and or killed, even had be concerned, but he resurfaced again, there are a few thousands like him, but combining all Restorationnist as a whole, both individuals and groups, I cannot say.

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As for your comment "It comes down to who is applying what is true and who is not, and only a few do what is true while others do not".

So, you can name who is doing what is true can you ? You can say what is truth and what is not can you ?  

I have been very vocal on here of who is actually following the truth of the early church.

The Apostolic Christians had everything down to the letter, or in this case, the Didache. The Church and her people, the church and her teachings that is being professed, of which one must follow.

To quote myself:

Quote

Now what is this preaching they received as well as their belief? “SHE” the church, believes in One God, The Father Almighty. “She” believes in One Christ Jesus, The Son of God and The Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the administrations of God.....

Lastly, take a good look at this [Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father]. As to my previous comment in Irenaeus’ other book, Proof of the Apostolic Preaching, anyone can figure this out so there is no further need to go into detail, in addition, as I said before, you didn’t read the other portions of the same paragraph, let alone took the time to read the book, at least some of it (even though I hyperlinked in one of my comments aside from a basic Irenaeus’ quote).

I am aware there are those who attempt to be and or already are. And it has been known that Restorationist are the type of Christians to not adhere and or align themselves with mainstream Christianity, thus making them entirely different, but at their core they only care about following the teachings of the early Apostolic Church and putting that into application even in this day and age and onward, for Restorationist Christians are learners as they go and progress.

I would post the Didahe, but that is a full posting on it's own, I will just make reference to it: The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (60 - 120 A.D.)

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

From an historic standpoint it might be easier, but for knowing who God is using to give the true direction now, can you tell me ?

One would have to simply go back to the Early Church and Christians, for they knew God, who he was and his thinking, thus having the ten commandments come in form of principles and the Sh'ma.

God gives us direction and truth by means of his word and he expects us to put that into application, this also goes for the commands of his Son, Christ Jesus, and what His Son wants us, Christians, to do, for we are of that same house with others who are aware of which Covenant they are under.

By means of his word, God has also people, imperfect ones, who profess what is true and abide by what is true, although such ones can make mistakes, as is with past followers of God, even of Christ, such ones still do what is best, what is necessary to get word out of the gospel, the good news, the Messianic Age, what is to come, what is to expect.

The problem here is that there are others, false ones, who twist the information into something that it is not. One of the many things I have a total disdain for is the Trinity, the teaching that God is his own Son, or anything that is of an accursed doctrine, mockery of the holy spirit and so forth, and lastly, those who are clearly defending spurious text which was added into the Bible, something of which I am 100%+1,000% vocal about, even to the point on several instances I stumble on myself out going overboard when professing facts.

That being said, as Christians we need to know the Bible and the history of the scriptures, we need to know the history of the early church and Christians, otherwise we would be in a position that reveals utter ignorance and or problematic issues that others will correct, sometimes with sheer criticism, an example would be regarding the other post about a certain fishermen.

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Can you say this 'sect' or that 'denomination' are telling complete truth ?  Can you know for sure who has God's blessing ?

Mr. Bulter, you can start by studying, researching, and meditating on the early church. Before you do so, I suggest reading through Matthew 16 carefully, then go about the research of the Apostolic Age, for you will find out things that the mainstream does not tell you about the church, examples like how most early Christians were technically Subornationist, or the fact that Trinitarians and Modalist joined forced to stamp out other beliefs when they themselves know they are in the wrong. Things of that nature.

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If you can truthfully answer all of this then God must be blessing you far more that he blesses many. 

God has given me the ability to learn, as is with all men. I take learning things with sheer seriousness. I can speak of any denomination because I studied them, I even studied Judaism and Islam, even though I am a Unitarian Christian myself, who, among the few, who believes in pre-existence. Like I told you before, we are all servants, slaves, we are not above anyone, nor are we below, weak or superior, and so forth.

I can be very critical at times, even strict, but the truth will be spoken. I do not take lightly to false and or erroneous Christologies in order to paint someone in a bad light, the very reason why if something is of conspiracy and or other, I speak up, and at times, people cannot handle the truth to the point they run for the hills and cry for admin to lock down a thread.

All of us can learn, but those who remain ignorant to learning only shows themselves to be the villain, in this sense. There is also a time for common ground whereas despite the views there are things that are agreeable to both sides, example would be, I can agree and discussion with someone who is a Muslim about Sura-112 in the Qu'ran, which to us in the Bible is Deuteronomy 6:4 regarding the Sh'ma. Things like that, and I say this because I speak with one too many Muslims elsewhere,and among them several Christians who are for and against the Trinity are present, some from the Soco crew are not pleasant people, even some JWs showed up, one I had challenged named Kathgar because an Agnostic had something interesting to say that led me on a goose chase.

[Space Merchant]

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And your point is ?

Please don't just slap scriptures all over the screen like 'Gone Away' does. 

It means nothing. It proves nothing. It is not helpful in any way. 

I'm sure even the Pope could quote scripture. 

Scriptures proves everything, it comes down to who is putting the truth of what is spoken of in a verse and or passage in total truth and in harmony with the text, vs. those who do not and base what the verse and or passage says to equal to that of emotion, feelings and or some other mere opinion. The very reason why I was very critical of you before regarding Peter because when you get down to the core of the context, the truth is there.

[Space Merchant]

19 hours ago, Anna said:

Jesus and Jehovah communicate trough the Bible

Very true. Minus the bacon (if you catch that reference regarding translators) Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested.

Also I do not know if you know this but, there are people who think if they eat the pages of the Bible, they somehow gain insight. I think a similar situation some guy ate an entire bible as his last meal.

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

Ecclesiastes 12 v 12.  

"As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh".

So , it seems in God's eyes we may only need His written word the Bible. 

If you understood me you would know that I seek truth as to how I should serve God. 

Yes I do get a bit 'upset' at times, but I'm human, a sinner like everyone. 

I could come back to other points but it would only be going round in circles. 

 

[Space Merchant]

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Ecclesiastes 12 v 12.  

"As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh".

So , it seems in God's eyes we may only need His written word the Bible. 

If you understood me you would know that I seek truth as to how I should serve God. 

Yes I do get a bit 'upset' at times, but I'm human, a sinner like everyone. 

I could come back to other points but it would only be going round in circles. 

The verse as followed:

• Ecclesiastes 12:12 - My son, beware of anything beyond these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

This verse is clear, in context, it warns us against the books that are a product of reasoning men and  is in direct conflict with the wisdom of God, for such books keep people away from God and preventing people from keeping of God's commandments.

On the other side of the spectrum, we have knowledge that is obtained which enables us to carry out of God’s commands, hence is weariness of the flesh. The very reason this verse harmoniously connects to another verse in Ecclesiastes, 1:18, which reads:

For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.

With this verse in mind, we can also draw a conclusion to the context from King Solomon. For he was not the type to frown down on reading and taking in knowledge, but rather to be selective in some sense, knowing of what is good and bad, what to take in, so to speak. For we should be very careful in reading things that is true and or untrue, mainly things that harbor influence from things of this world, in in this matter, Traditions of Men.

[JOHN BUTLER]

If the Bible is the only collection of writings that is inspired by God, then all other writings are from the world or of 'man's thinking', or worse from the devil.

I think the Bible talks of the Spiritual man verses the Physical man. 1 Corinthians 2 v 12 -15.

T¹²  Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit that is from God,m so that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God. ¹³  These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom,n but with those taught by the spirit,oas we explain* spiritual matters with spiritual words.¹⁴  But a physical man does not accept* the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. ¹⁵  However, the spiritual man examines all things,p but he himself is not examined by any man.

So therefore to examine the truth from God we only need God's written word, which we examine through prayer and the help of the holy spirit.. 

[Space Merchant]

@JOHN BUTLER This is because when there is truth, an actual truth, people tend not to take said truth and will remain in ignorance of what is actually true. Those who accept what is truth will remain steadfast, be among the learners who are wise.

But you have to be very aware that over the centuries, the Bible has taken in some corruptions, such corruptions that is of men, for I told you before, to which someone tried to use a typo against me [Witness], that you cannot trust the KJV 100%. The truth is the inspired word is in the KJV, however, there are some spurious text, changes and forgeries, in the text itself and people, even today think of them as true.

An example would be John 7:53–8:11, this whole passage is not inspired, nor is it Bible canon, and yet the KJV has it, making the masses think it is true. Those who cannot get another Bible but the KJV, tend to avoid spurious text as a whole.

And there are many corruptions, for your early church father fought against such, but centuries later such has taken place again and in our day and age, a fight still is brewing.

[Anna Rajala]

On 10/2/2018 at 12:33 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

I have always wondered if the Bible is for 'all of us' to understand fully, or if it's only for a chosen few to fully understand.

I don't mean is it just for one 'religion' to understand, I mean is it just for say 'an anointed group of people to understand'? 

Jesus spoke in illustrations to the people, but the disciples asked Jesus what the illustrations meant. Then Jesus would explain the illustration to them fully. 

Jesus told his disciples that 'to them the sacred secrets would be revealed' but that the crowd would not get the meaning of such things. 

It was also that after Jesus was resurrected he opened the eyes of his disciples / apostles so that they began to fully understand all things.

For my part I would never expect to fully understand God's word the Bible. A lot of it is straight forward of course, and easy to comprehend.

But I think a lot of it is 'in deep code' so to speak, only fully understood by those that Jehovah chooses.. 

It still seems strange to me, but it would be a separate topic, that God allows it to be so difficult for people to find any truth amongst the huge amount of lies in 'religion'. 

However, in my opinion, there has to be a 'group of humans' 'anointed people' that do have some direct contact with God, through Jesus Christ. 

We no longer have 'miracles' being done in Christ's name, so it is difficult to know exactly who the 'chosen ones' are. 

If there was a 'body of people' that could prove that they had God's approval and God's holy spirit, that would make life much easier. 

However when those that say they are chosen either make mistakes or tell lies about the meaning of scripture, and then their predictions fail, then they seem to prove themselves false or without God's guidance.

So we go back to square one. Is there really a 'body of people' being truly guided and upbuilt by God's holy spirit at this time ? 

Is the Bible and it's prophecies being fully opened up to such ones ?

 

Some people understand the Bible a lot better then me im just a student. And need a lot of anwers

 

.

[Space Merchant]

7 hours ago, Anna Rajala said:

Some people understand the Bible a lot better then me im just a student. And need a lot of anwers

One thing that helped me when I was younger up until now is to focus on core passages itself, example, all things pertaining to Moses, Isaiah, etc, even Jesus. Reading carefully, sometimes aloud helps you to remember what you've read, coupled with meditation. Also take the time to study what you've read to better understand it. It is a list of things, but begin with a form of study that is comfortable to you and helps enable you to progress in reading God's Word. Over time, you will gain wisdom and understanding. To make it easier for you, I suggest begin with the four gospel accounts concerning Jesus, and work your way beyond that or go back into the Old Testament and work your way up.