Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

But you see it was not about experience - it is about obedience.  Satan had eons of experience and turned against god.  The issue is not experience.  One can have little experience - but if you trust God - you have more experience than any other creature!

You are somewhat right. But I think, also, experience we collect with time has a lot of influence on our decision whether to listen to something or refuse to listen.

The gift of free will is associated with independence. Independence means, in this case, making an independent decision about something. Making independent decisions is a feature of a certain degree of maturity of an individual.   "...always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth."

Learning is a process that builds experience in a theoretical way. Through practice, the acquired knowledge gains maturity and is practiced over time. Obedience is also practiced and has its oscillations. Sometimes we are more obedient and sometimes less obedient. So, there is no continuity by which we are constantly obedient. Well, look at WTJWorg. Abandonment of old interpretations actually means the cessation of obedience to the previous system of doctrines aka God who “allowed” wrong teaching.

From the aspect of a JW member, it could also be interpreted that God suffered the disobedience of all JWs in the world and that all the time while you believed in the wrong ideas of your religious leaders. Has God punished you for your obedience to wrong ideas? In fact, it has happened that your religious leaders have been assuring you all along that WTJWorg has actually been blessed with great progress in every way, spiritual and physical. So how can it be now, that God rewards one's obedience to wrong teachings?

Does God want man to be a mature individual who is capable of making mature decisions on his own, reflecting the “image of God”? Or that a man, on the contrary, be an immature individual who must constantly ask someone else for advice or instruction on what to do, how to decide on something?
Obedience, to someone or something, has its weight only to a certain extent. Because, no one has a manual on how to act in a situation, so that we can then be obedient to stick to the manual, word for word.
If God had imagined things that way, then he would not have even embarked on an experiment with free will. He would already write the rules, so, let people read, remember and obey the rules aka God.

Obviously, things don’t go that way. Obedience must be constantly learned, because one must learn to distinguish what should and should not be obeyed.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If God had imagined things that way, then he would not have even embarked on an experiment with free will. He would already write the rules, so, let people read, remember and obey the rules aka God.

He gave rules to Adam. Told Adam what he could do and what he should not do. 

And we have 'rules', 'laws' and principles in the Bible, which is inspired of God.  But we have the free will to follow those 'guidelines' or not to. 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Does God want man to be a mature individual who is capable of making mature decisions on his own, reflecting the “image of God”? Or that a man, on the contrary, be an immature individual who must constantly ask someone else for advice or instruction on what to do, how to decide on something?

Very good point.  I know a JW who's wife died because she did not have a blood transfusion, whereas now she could have some fractions from blood.  So maybe that man should have made the decision by using Bible scripture not by obeying humans.  It's one more reason I'm no longer a JW, because i want to be guided by God through Christ, not by men. 

[Arauna]

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Obedience must be constantly learned,

If one knows Jehovah's principles - this is not hard.  Just do what is just, merciful and love your neighbor as yourself. The problem is that people do not value their integrity and look for REASONS to disobey.... 

[Arauna]

On 10/4/2021 at 2:22 PM, Arauna said:

quoted a Muslim website.

I did not read your writings but the picture is Muslim my dear!   I have worked amongst the Muslims - I know one when I see one - LOL

 

[Arauna]

On 10/4/2021 at 5:28 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

say, it is a universal issue.

That is why I like Eph 1:9 and 10

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

If one knows Jehovah's principles - this is not hard.  Just do what is just, merciful and love your neighbor as yourself. The problem is that people do not value their integrity and look for REASONS to disobey.... 

Agree, of course. But you have to agree with the experiential statement that a principle can be changed, as we see in the example of WTJWorg, who changes the principle on the basis of “new light” and new, clarified interpretations of old doctrines. The very change of doctrine leads to a change of principles, in one way or another.  

[Arauna]

On 10/5/2021 at 6:57 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

ut can easily be seen to deliberately disobey God.  

You apply motive to them of being deliberate.   (Have you ever run a world-wide brotherhood? ....and managed to keep them united and in peace? - NO).  You expect them to be perfect. They can make mistakes just like David and Moses did.  Moses spoke to Jehovah face to face and disrespected him,

The spiritual temple in which Jesus is the high priest - he went into the presence of God (if you read Hebrews) to bring his sacrifice to be accepted in the Most high (the presence of Jehovah) of the spiritual temple.  

The under-priests have the Holy - wherein the lamp stand gives them light, the show bread of food they consume to help them stay faithful and offer up prayers on the golden incense table. 

So they ARE fed by Jehovah.  The spiritual food does not make them perfect but the ransom allows them to have a  righteous standing before Jehovah (despite their mistakes and weaknesses. ) 

The bible says if you despise these "little ones"  ... well you should know what it says!

 

[Witness]

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

The bible says if you despise these "little ones"  ... well you should know what it says!

The priests are certainly despised in the organization.  If these ones are to take of the "showbread", then why must they answer to men who continually feed them stale, rotten "bread"? (new light/old light)  You call this, being fed by God? If the food is found to be stale, did it impart life to begin with?  Matt 7:15-20

  And...why must they not meet together under their High Priest Jesus Christ to study the scriptures  - the "bread of life" - as one body?  That is what your organization tells them.

“I am the bread of life,” Jesus told them. “No one who comes to me will ever be hungry, and no one who believes in me will ever be thirsty again.  John 6:35

"Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf."  1 Cor 10:17

The anointed are prohibited from approaching Jesus Christ to receive the bread of life, as the members of his body. (Eph 4:4-13; 2:20-22 )  They are the spiritual Temple/dwelling of God's Spirit.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17)  Each one of these "living stones" in the organization is being "destroyed" by a counterfeit priesthood WHOM THEY MUST OBEY - the elder body.  2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2

Where in the scriptures does it say that they MUST OBEY men not anointed?  

Matt 25:45 - “Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

Arauna, you could read about the duties of the early priesthood ...Deut 33:10; Num 27:21; 2 Chron 15:3; Mal 2:7;2 Cor 5:20; Rom 15:15,16; 1 Pet 2:9

...and then ask yourself why you have submitted to the false rulership over you of a counterfeit priesthood, which transgresses the laws of God. Num 18:7; Lev 10:10; Ezek 44:23; Rev 11:1,2

"You are to appoint Aaron and his sons to carry out their priestly responsibilities, but any unauthorized person who comes near the sanctuary is to be put to death.”  Num  3:10

"Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders"  wt 01/8/1

Blasphemy

 

[Arauna]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:36 PM, Matthew9969 said:

So not agreeing with the governing body is a sin worthy of death?

With that assumption you will get a lot of likes from only the apostates.  I do not agree with everything but I am not apostate.  You twist words to get the likes from the opposers.

[Witness]

You know what is absolutely amazing to me, @Dmitar/Allen?  You've downvoted God's word. My comment sited many scriptures.  You are supporting  how your organization treats the anointed.  You and all JWs are supporting the breaking of God's commandments about the priesthood...unless they know, but are too afraid to speak up for the word of God and accept instead, the word of men.

Who is the god you worship?  It isn't the God of Truth.  

“This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: go ahead, add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices and eat the meat yourselves! 22 For when I brought your ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices, 23 but I gave them this command: obey Me, and I will be your God and you will be My people. Walk in obedience to all I command you, that it may go well with you. 

24 But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backwards and not forwards. 25 From the time your ancestors left Egypt until now, day after day, again and again I sent you my servants the prophets. 26 But they did not listen to me or pay attention. They were stiff-necked and did more evil than their ancestors.”

27 ‘When you tell them all this, they will not listen to you; when you call to them, they will not answer. 28 Therefore say to them, “This is the nation that has not obeyed the Lord its God or responded to correction. Truth has perished; it has vanished from their lips.  Jer 7