New Light on Beards

[Srecko Sostar]

45 minutes ago, Anna said:

Yes, that was really weirdly worded. Makes no logical sense. What did they mean? It's one of those mind games/word salads that makes you scratch your head. 

Well, didn't GB tell you a long time ago: Don't think and conclude logically, because our instructions will not look/be logical.

[xero]

This is what Jehovah has said: “Cursed is the able-bodied man who puts his trust in earthling man and actually makes flesh his [chariot]. - Jer. 17:5
"Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ." - Mt. 23:10

 

[Anna]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is quite possible that there are a number of men in JW congregations who wear beards. Because of this, they cannot be excluded, but they are rather "unused" for various functions within the Church. In the chronic shortage of "manpower" for "congregational positions of responsibility", it is possible that this change is aimed at this target group.

It is also possible that some who wear beards have put themselves in that position on purpose, for the reason that they do not want to be burdened with any responsibilities in the Organization.

Also, a certain number of PIMO members (physically inside, mentally outside) chose to wear a beard just to stay connected with the congregation only for free social contacts (because they are not excluded), and on the other hand, so that they cannot be held accountable because they are in the category "spiritually weak individuals".

Changes are made because the Organization is in trouble, not because God has loosened the reins of His Chariot.

A lot of speculation there.

I think this is about unity.

I always say there is strength in numbers. It's apparent that HQ received many "complaints" (they said so) from people who were arguing the "beard issue" . The organization probably realized that in 2016 they had left the question too ambiguous and this resulted in unnecessary "divisions" in the congregations. It was basically left up to the BOE. So consequently, in the same  building the English congregation had three elders with beards, one of them the COBE, and in the hall literally across the foyer the congregation (not English) wouldn't alow a young brother to operate the microphones unless he shaved his beard off. One elder in another congregation in the same city grew a beard (his wife liked it, it suited him) but the other elders were against it. Obviously no harmony there. So he and his family moved to the English congregation where beards were allowed. In the same city. 

The message was clear: give us a black and white answer, because this policy, that it was up to the elders, was causing divisions. Over what? Over beards! So the logical conclusion was to remove any "supposed" cultural barriers which caused the beard issues and let everyone know that to beard or not to beard is ok world wide for every male and in all responsible positions. 

My only complaint was the use of the chariot and the keeping up with the heavely organization mantra which I personally feel could have been omitted because in my opinion it created the word salad and was a little confusing, and open to interpretation because it suggested what JWI said, and that didn't make much sense. It's almost like sometimes the earthly organization paints itself into a corner. Unnecessarily. 

Jehovah's heavenly organization was obviously never against beards because all the angels had them, including Jesus. 

[Pudgy]

I suspect “Leader” back in Jesus time had a nuanced connotation quite different than the common usage of the word today. 

Everything does have to have an exact label to make precision communications possible. Like “stairs” are inside a house and “steps” are outside a house. Like the word “Leader” today is rather innocuous, but the word “Fuhrer” conjures up a mental image quite different.

For a long time Cornell University in Ithaca, NY used a completely different set of mathematical symbols for Quantum Mechanics interactions than Stanford University in California, which affected the flavor and weight of thought processes.

To avoid  being caught in semantic traps, either someone else's of one’s own it’s important to understand labels.

Thats why I have a Brother Labelmaker, and keep at least a dozen cassettes of black-on -yellow label maker tape on hand. (.. which are actually in a box in a desk drawer, not on my hand …).

The labelmaker resembles an early Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 100 tablet computer because of the keyboard and two to eight line only LCD display, so I have even labeled my labelmaker with a label that says Labelmaker and on the label of my Labelmaker I have a small label that says Label.

It’s like when you order dragonfly ice cream for the frog, and honey ice cream for the bear 

…. don’t get ‘em mixed up !

[Pudgy]

57 minutes ago, Anna said:

Jehovah's heavenly organization was obviously never against beards because all the angels had them, including Jesus. 

Since neither have any physical bodies, and any beards are just human artist’s concepts, and neither is there any air to support flapping giant wings (… not to mention shoulder blades as big as a hippo’s … and robes with wing holes …), I like to visualize Jesus’ and the Angel’s beards being giant multi- colored light year diameter Brillo pads. 

Of course, this beggers the question, do the wings molt and the pads rust?

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

A lot of speculation there.

My speculations are optional. They can become effective if you take them seriously. But it is mostly an option of one's free choice.
In contrast, speculations coming from GB are dangerous at the start. To forbid the wearing of beards in Rutherford's time was nothing more than distancing, by those who caused the schism, to break any resemblance to Russell.

Later, the leadership of WTJWorg found excuses for the ban in the appearance of some "worldly" people who participated in various social movements of the society. They claimed that wearing a certain model of hairstyles and external appearance of the face (beard in men in this case) should be avoided because this way JW can be mistakenly identified with, for example, rebels in society.

At the same time, wearing suits and ties and flawless hair and shaved face, GB has never identified with a certain number of corrupt politicians and businessmen who are dishonest. For some reason, they forgot to mention that detail when they were giving advice to their followers about their appearance.

I agree that it is nice to see neat and tidy people (with or without beard). But we don't live in a perfect world, whatever that means.

2 hours ago, Anna said:

The message was clear: give us a black and white answer, because this policy, that it was up to the elders, was causing divisions. Over what? Over beards! So the logical conclusion was to remove any "supposed" cultural barriers which caused the beard issues and let everyone know that to beard or not to beard is ok world wide for every male and in all responsible positions.

The Spiritual Slavery that reigns within JW followers requires a "clear and unequivocal answer/instruction" as to what is allowed and what is not allowed with a beard. That demand for "answers" from GB is actually a reflection of the devastating spiritual condition of the flock in so called true Christianity aka JW Church.

If so many people in WTJWorg are unable to have/achieve unity in diversity and freedom of choice over something the Bible has never questioned, then there is no "salvation" for all of you either literally or figuratively. You, JWs, are unfortunately condemned to total dependence on a few men who are not even capable of knowing right from wrong. WTJWorg cannot reform itself for the better.

I agree with @Pudgy, WTJWorg is run by accountants and lawyers.., and by religious leaders who willingly, voluntarily agree to falsehood.

[George88]

I am truly grateful that those who once held positions as MS and elders are no longer in those roles if they are unable to comprehend how God operates within the organization.

Any former Ministerial Servant or Elder who held such a position with effectiveness would have grasped the compelling symbolism behind the illustration of the chariot wheel, which beautifully incorporates the presence of the four cherubs. This powerful imagery represents the supreme attributes of God Himself. Therefore, as the movement of this celestial chariot wheel persists, it signifies and exemplifies those divine qualities, not those of mere mortals.

Scripture being misused to shape their understanding is also part of the issue. Some go as far as using selective scripture, such as Matthew 23:10, without acknowledging the context in which Jesus was addressing the misconduct of the Pharisees and scribes, who were portraying themselves as righteous but were misusing the scriptures. This parallel can be traced back to the foundation laid in Matthew 23:1. 

It would be unwise not to recognize the connection between humanity and God as His chosen representatives. Just as the apostles did not venture into the public without guidance from Jesus, God is guiding His chosen, responsible people today through the ever-changing norms of this world.
 

[Pudgy]

As usual, Georgie, as always you have missed the point.

I am sure everyone who comes here fully understands the symbolism …

…. but many hate how it has neen consintamtly been misapplied as a tool to manipulate the Brotherhood, to maintain ecclestical power to keep the money waterfall flowing.

Remember it was Aaron that misrepresented Jehovah by making the Golden Calf,  declaring

“This is Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt!”.

He convinced the Jews to contribute tons of gold to the project.

Someone should have searched his tent.

There is a reason that above the circuit or district level there is ZERO accountability for contributed funds to the Brotherhood.

I have carefully considered your agenda driven perspective, and what I see is a classic case of Stockholm Syndrome.

[Pudgy]

 Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response where hostages or victims develop positive feelings, empathy, or even loyalty toward their captors or abusers.

It often occurs in situations of intense fear, isolation, and perceived threat to one's life. The term originated from a 1973 bank robbery in Stockholm, Sweden, where hostages developed a bond with the perpetrators. Even loyalty.

The syndrome involves a complex interplay of psychological mechanisms, including identification with the aggressor, survival instincts, and a coping strategy to endure the traumatic experience. Victims may rationalize their captor's behavior, empathize with them, and form a sense of dependency.

[Pudgy]

5 hours ago, George88 said:

, God is guiding His chosen, responsible people today through the ever-changing norms of this world.

How could you have POSSIBLY missed that GB notice No. 2023- 8 as narrated by GB Bro. Stephen Lett several times SPECIFICALLY STATED the reason for the change on beards was that they were conforming to THE EVER-CHANGING NORMS OF THE WORLD.

Did you even WATCH the video even once?

[Pudgy]

Lett also stated that we should not judge anyone on any subject about which the Bible is silent.

I fully agree with that, but people have their own standards about every conceivable subject and do judge others accordingly. 

I may judge someone for any reason I want … that is what Adults should do. The Universe will “determine” if that is good or bad, automatically.

If I ride a motorcycle or skydive, or choose to carry weapons, as the Apostles did, is not a theocratic issue.

Tyranny is when you think it is, and have the power to enforce it using Congregational Authority attributed to God, or beat scripture to fit whims of lunacy.

 

[Pudgy]

There are several codified “Cowboy Codes” which  I also use for guidance. 

One item states “You should feed your animals before you feed yourself …”.

A really good idea, but to imply it is a command from God is BOGUS.