Jump to content
The World News Media

How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?


Anna

Recommended Posts

  • Member
5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Nooooo, that is implication resulted, arise from your sentence

The implication that God's happiness depends on men? No, sorry, not my view anywhere as far as I can see. Not intentionally anyway.  

Shame. It seems I don't understand you....and..... you don't understand me.

I will state my view on this matter clearly so there is no mistaken implication.  Jehovah's happiness DOES NOT depend upon men. There. Is that clear enough? So what was the point you were making on this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 17.1k
  • Replies 294
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Most Witnesses obviously want to live peaceful Christian lives and conduct ourselves in a way that pleases Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. None of us really want the job of being responsible to take a s

Hi Anna! Sorry for the delay in response. I am a little bit confused what you mean about complete obedience being in the minds of only some Witnesses. The Governing Body spells it out in their literat

Who is more loyal? This is a real conversation I had with a brother. He insisted I should follow some instructions in our congregation. I agreed but I also mentioned this arrangement was silly. T

Posted Images

  • Member
@Outta Here 1st quote
How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?

This is the question here.

As has been explained on many occasions, the GB/Slave is spirit-directed and not inspired. This means that guidance from Jehovah is provided whenever required. He keeps the the earthly part of His organisation on track....................when nececessary. In other words, if Jehovah has not intervened, then He is happy with the current progress. 

**** my green color

@Ou tta 2nd quote

??? I think I said that Jehovah is happy with the overall progress of His purpose and that will always govern in what He chooses to intervene. In other words, as He always has the successful outcome of His purpose in view, He is always happy with what He allows. Of course the negative aspects and consequences of human behaviour do not make Him happy (compare Ps.119:136). Surely you know that???

He will indeed intervene in the affairs of all mankind soon. The outcome of that intervention will make him happier still, although there are some who feel otherwise.

**** my green color

my response: 

Are you serious?

Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma?

Or do you offer this Idea as General View (Happiness) that JHVH have on Humankind and World Condition (in specific religious issue: old Jew, 1st Church, 2nd Church, Reformed Churches, etc.) in past thousand years? By reading of Bible report we see that god was Unhappy only ones, when released Flood on Earth. In all other stages, periods by not intervened He showed Happiness? :))

your response on this part:

Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma?

You are referring to the nature of Jehovah's happines here I think? If that is the case then I don't apply it in such a narrrow context.

 

 :))))) now is time for real time :)))))

Somehow You start to involve wording, Nature of JHVH happiness, in question i put. I don't now why. Because you started talking about God's Nature (Happiness). Even more, you go further and gave idea how there is gradation in this emotional state of God (happy - happier) :))) So, Who is that guy who talking about God's Nature? You or Me? :))

 You made it clear that you talking about 2 different progress that is going on, and about 2 reasons for God's happiness. And how god's happiness is also visible because, supposed progress, taking place . Perhaps His happiness about this two things is VISIBLE only TO You. :)))  and to WTJWORG.

God is Happy with current progress ( here you talking  about progress inside WTJWORG).

God is happy with the overall progress of His purpose (here you talking, i guess, from Adam and Eve to nowadays)   

Somehow you entered in God's Mind and Emotions (aka God's Nature) and made inspection, insight of His Will, and then came before all of us here with comment even statement how God is satisfied with this 2 particular things.  

- to laugh or to cry, question is now - 

First of all, you made connection between WTJWORG activity, you called that PROGRESS with one EMOTIONAL STATE of JHVH Nature, aka happiness. This connection you have produced, was been reason for my next response i made to you:    In regard to JW religion, and with your opinion, this would mean how JHVH is happy when JW members feeling, thinking, speaking and doing things that are factually wrong. Strange god you have :))  

I hope how this retrospective is helpful for our conversation :))))) stay well!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
21 hours ago, Outta Here said:

I will state my view on this matter clearly so there is no mistaken implication.  Jehovah's happiness DOES NOT depend upon men. There. Is that clear enough? So what was the point you were making on this?

If you don't mind i would like to say my opinion and some short thoughts about this interesting and perhaps important issue, if not for all people but maybe for some. 

If we go from premise how God is perfect and self sufficient in all things, than we maybe may take this strong and clear view, you said, as final thing, and stop right there. That reaction, of course, would not erase possibility to ask some questions. Or at least One question which will Shake this sort of idea you presented.

What is that question? You can find this, not only interesting question, but in fact crucial, life important question, in God's command, request. This was expressed in verses:

   “Hear, O Israel: [a]The Lord our God, the Lord is one! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.  - Deuteronomy book   

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. - Mathew book

If you put attention on Jew Law you will notice how Law said, among many other things that are OBLIGATIONS, Love is something that a person feels morally or legally forced to do!  

Imagine, God command you to love him! I ask you and anyone else: Can you love somebody, anyone on command???!! 

On one side, this same God give you free will, and filled you with various emotions. You have Mind and have freedom to choose and God respect your choice. Does  Emotions have not that same freedom? 

As next argument in, for, this same issue we find this Bible statement: So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. - Genesis book

People would agree in interpretation how this means that God transferred His attributes to humans. Among them is Love. Humans imitate, expressed God's attributes in their life. Love and hate, creating and destroying, smiling and crying and so on. While doing this, humans also have Big Need to Be Loved. If they are Not Loved things coming to be bad, behavior changes, interactions are problematic and other things are happens.

In this period when there is Lack of Love, when is Time Without Love, in both direction, no matter is it problem that You Do Not Give Love or Other Don't Give Their Love, YOU/WE FEEL UNHAPPY. 

Well, because all this i think that you missed to see some things, when you gave unmistakable stated view about significance/importance of Love - Humans - God connections, interactions, interdependence. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

@Srecko Sostar That is a fantastic comment. Thank you for the thought you have put into that.

Billy the Kid obviously feels the lack of love for him, and so has to downvote you. 

We all need love and maybe God needs love from humans as you say.  

It does seem strange that God demanded love from the Nation of Israel. 

I have said previously that the Jews were in a much different situation to us. The Jews were born into the Law and had to serve God, whereas we can chose to serve God or not. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

you started talking about God's Nature (Happiness)

Nature = the basic or inherent features, character, or qualities of something. Yep. That was me.

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Somehow You start to involve wording, Nature of JHVH happiness, in question i put. I don't now why. Because you started talking about God's Nature (Happiness).

Don't understand this. I think @Anna raised the topic?

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Perhaps His happiness about this two things is VISIBLE only TO You.

God's happiness is visible to me. Yes, and anyone else who wants to see it. 1Tim.1:11.

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

God is Happy with current progress ( here you talking  about progress inside WTJWORG).

God is happy with the overall progress of His purpose (here you talking, i guess, from Adam and Eve to nowadays)   

You quote my statements in bold which is very useful. Thanks for that.

Just to emphasize, the happy God Jehovah is always happy with the the current and overall progress of his purpose. His name implies that he cannot fail in anything that he intends to accomplish, in fact that is why he is stated as being a god of "eternal purpose" in connection specifically with Christ. Your bracketed comments miss the mark rather, but Eph.3:11 should clarify.

The other comments you make seem to be using my comments as some sort of springboard for your views? as below:

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

i would like to say my opinion and some short thoughts about this interesting and perhaps important issue, if not for all people but maybe for some. 

I have to say that sadly, I just do not follow your reasoning at all. You seem to have what appears to be something driving a rant against what you term as "WTJWORG", and then a mini dissertation on what you understand regarding the words expressed in the books of Deuteronomy and Matthew regarding the definition of the "nature" (sorry if that is a negative buzzword for you) of the human expression of love for God. You have lost me Srecko.

Anyway. As you say, surely some here will get your drift. :)

PS. There. Someone has already posted. So. You are not alone.........

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
17 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@Srecko Sostar That is a fantastic comment. Thank you for the thought you have put into that.

Billy the Kid obviously feels the lack of love for him, and so has to downvote you. 

We all need love and maybe God needs love from humans as you say.  

It does seem strange that God demanded love from the Nation of Israel. 

I have said previously that the Jews were in a much different situation to us. The Jews were born into the Law and had to serve God, whereas we can chose to serve God or not. 

Thank you John! 

Yeah, thoughts that circled in my mind about this in recent years, made me to think how God "desperately" need love from creatures He brought to existence - Humans (and Angels).

In case of old Jew, he incorporated, built this in legislative. I wander why. Because, from our present time aspects, perspective and after Jesus' Teachings, all is in free will, free wish, to respect, to serving god "from Love". Idea of Love including Free Choice. Because without such freedom to make decision of that sort/ thing,  seems questionable, to me at least.

 Love is Best, Ultimate, Perfect, Divine state of Soul. That is, i don't know, but i guess, Maximum what we can achieved in lifetime.

For me, God looking for such Love. He needs that Love. What would happened if we don't give Him Love?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Love is Best, Ultimate, Perfect, Divine state of Soul. That is, i don't know, but i guess, Maximum what we can achieved in lifetime.

For me, God looking for such Love. He needs that Love. What would happened if we don't give Him Love?

The way I see it, Jehovah has an abundance of love about the things he cares about, and actually needs NOTHING from us.

Nothing whatsoever.  

It's like my 18 pet Bantam chickens ... (who I just finished feeding a whole banana split down the middle, a large handful of broccoli, and two giant strawberries, and gave them more commercial chicken feed, and clean water ....).

I want the very best for them, but in reality need NOTHING from them. I am not going to eat the eggs, or the chickens.  They are just fun to watch grow and interact with me and my wife, and each other.   There is no point whatsoever to it ... other than me watch them enjoy their short (about 6 years) life.

Jehovah does not get pouty, and petulant, and get depressed when we do not love him.

... think not about pettiness and pouty .... think Poultry !

It's just like the Sabbath.

The Sabbath regulation was made for mankind .... mankind was NOT made for the Sabbath.

Jehovah will not get his feelings hurt, and start hurling lightning bolts, or go in the corner, and cry because we are not giving him enough adoration.

HE ENCOURAGES ADORATION ONLY BECAUSE IT REPROGRAMS US NOT TO BE SO NASTY AND SELF CENTERED! ( ... with some notable exceptions ...)

Not because He needs adoration !

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 1/31/2017 at 4:41 PM, Outta Here said:

 This means that guidance from Jehovah is provided whenever required. He keeps the the earthly part of His organisation on track....................when nececessary. In other words, if Jehovah has not intervened, then He is happy with the current progress.

Not necessarily, and we know the prophets gave us insight into the last days.

Call to me when trouble comes;
    I will save you,
    and you will praise me.”

 But God says to the wicked,
    “Why should you recite my commandments?
    Why should you talk about my covenant?
 You refuse to let me correct you;
    you reject my commands.
 You become the friend of every thief you see,
    and you associate with adulterers.

 “You are always ready to speak evil;
    you never hesitate to tell lies.
 You are ready to accuse your own relatives
  and to find fault with them.
 You have done all this, and I have said nothing,
    so you thought that I am like you.
But now I reprimand you
    and make the matter plain to you.  Ps 50:14-21

 

God says,

For a long time I kept silent;
    I did not answer my people.
But now the time to act has come;
  I cry out like a woman in labor.
I will destroy the hills and mountains
    and dry up the grass and trees.
I will turn the river valleys into deserts
    and dry up the pools of water.

“I will lead my blind people
    by roads they have never traveled.
I will turn their darkness into light
    and make rough country smooth before them.
These are my promises,
    and I will keep them without fail.
 All who trust in idols,
    who call images their gods,

    will be humiliated and disgraced.”  Isa 42:14-17

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • try the: Bánh bèo Bánh ít ram
    • Definitely should try the Bond roll here when you get a chance: this is a mom and pop place that does a great job  
    • An interesting concept, bible discipline. I am struck by the prevalence of ignorance about spiritual discipline on "Reddit." While physical and mental disciplines receive attention, the profound impact of spiritual discipline on a person's physical and mental well-being is often overlooked. Is it possible to argue against the words of the Apostle Paul? When he penned those words in Hebrews 12, he was recognizing that there are moments when an individual must be "rebuked" in order to be corrected. Even Jesus himself established a precedent when he rebuked Peter and referred to him as Satan for failing to comprehend what Jesus had already revealed to the apostles. Did that imply that Jesus had an evil heart? Not at all, it was quite the opposite; Jesus had a loving heart. His need to correct Peter actually showcased his genuine love for him. If he hadn't cared, he would have let Peter persist in his mistaken ways, leading to a fate similar to Judas'. There is a clear emphasis on avoiding the apostate translation and its meaning, yet many seem to overlook the biblical foundation for the reasons NOT to follow the path of the fallen brethren or those with an apostate mentality. Those individuals have embraced the path of darkness, where the illuminating power of light cannot penetrate, to avoid receiving the righteous discipline based on God's Bible teachings. They are undoubtedly aware that this undeniable truth of life must be disregarded in order to uphold their baseless justifications for the unjust act of shunning. Can anyone truly "force" someone or stop them from rejecting a friend or family member? Such a notion would be absurd, considering the fact that we all have the power of free will. If a Witness decides to distance themselves from a family member or friend simply because they have come out as gay, who is anyone within the organization to question or challenge that personal sentiment? It is unfortunate that there are individuals, both within and outside the organization, who not only lack a proper understanding of the Bible but also dare to suggest that God's discipline is barbaric. We must remember that personal choices should be respected, and it is not for others to judge or condemn someone based on their sexual orientation but should be avoided under biblical grounds. No one should have the power to compel an individual to change their sexual orientation, nor should anyone be forced to accept someone for who they are. When it comes to a family's desire to shield their children from external influences, who has the right to challenge the parents' decision? And if a family's rejection of others is based on cultural factors rather than religious beliefs, who can impose religious judgment on them? Who should true followers of Christ follow? The words of God or those who believe they can change God's laws to fit their lives? How can we apply the inspired words of Paul from God to embrace the reality of God's discipline? On the contrary, how can nonconformists expect to persuade those with a "worldview" that their religious beliefs are unacceptable by ostracizing individuals, when God condemns homosexuality? This is precisely why the arguments put forth by ex-witnesses are lacking in their pursuit of justice. When they employ misguided tactics, justice remains elusive as their arguments are either weak or inconsistent with biblical standards. Therefore, it is crucial to also comprehend Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9:27. The use of the word "shun" is being exaggerated and excessively condemned by those who reject biblical shunning as a form of punishment. Eph 5:3-14 NIV 3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person — such a man is an idolater — has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.  8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible. The impact of the message becomes significantly stronger when we emphasize the importance of avoiding any association with unrighteousness and those who remain unrepentant. In fact, it becomes even more compelling when we witness how some individuals, who dismiss biblical shunning as a method of discipline, excessively criticize and condemn the use of the word "shun". Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses do not shun people; instead, they choose to focus on the negative actions being committed, which is in accordance with biblical teachings. This should be construed as ex-Witness rhetoric. Now, let's consider why ex-Witnesses specifically target one particular religion. What justifications do they provide when other Christian denominations also adhere to the same principle grounded in the Bible? Chapter 1 - Preface Both must therefore test themselves: the one, if he is qualified to speak and leave behind him written records; the other, if he is in a right state to hear and read: as also some in the dispensation of the Eucharist, according to  custom enjoin that each one of the people individually should take his part. One's own conscience is best for choosing accurately or shunning. And its firm foundation is a right life, with suitable instruction. But the imitation of those who have already been proved, and who have led correct lives, is most excellent for the understanding and practice of the commandments. "So that whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup."  It therefore follows, that every one of those who undertake to promote the good of their neighbours, ought to consider whether he has betaken himself to teaching rashly and out of rivalry to any; if his communication of the word is out of vainglory; if the the only reward he reaps is the salvation of those who hear, and if he speaks not in order to win favour: if so, he who speaks by writings escapes the reproach of mercenary motives. "For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know," says the apostle, "nor a cloak of covetousness. God is witness. Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome as the apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children."   (from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 2) Divine promises 2. The manner of shunning, in the word escaping. There is a flying away required, and that quickly, as in the plague, or from a fire which hath almost burned us, or a flood that breaketh in upon us. We cannot soon enough escape from sin (Matt 3:7; Heb 6:18). No motion but flight becomes us in this case. Doctrine: That the great end and effect of the promises of the gospel is to make us partakers of the Divine nature. (from The Biblical Illustrator)  
    • Clearly, they are already demanding your exile. Yes! It's unfortunate that Pudgy spoiled a great discussion about science. I hope the discussion can continue without any more nonsensical interruptions. Just a suggestion since they are on your heels. Wow! You speak! It seems you have a lot to say! Now they are going to treat like, who do you think you are, mister big stuff! Are those aliens now going to imply that anyone who speaks out against the five or six key contributors to this site will be treated as though it is George just because those in opposition speak the language they hate to hear, the TRUTH? They are seeking individuals who will embrace their nonconformist values and appreciate what they can offer in shaping public opinion contrary to the established agenda of God and Christ. Their goal is to enhance their writing abilities and avoid squandering time on frivolous pursuits, mainly arguing about the truth they don't care for. They see it all as a mere game, even when leading people astray. They believe they have every right to and will face no biblical repercussions, or so they believe. They just want to have fun just like that Cyndi Lauper song. Be prepared to be belittled and ridiculed, all the while they claim to be angels. Haha! By the way, please refrain from using the same language as George. They appear to believe that when others use the same words, it means they are the same person, and they emphasize this as if no one else is allowed to use similar grammar. It seems they think only they have the right to use the same or similar writing styles. Quite amusing, isn't it? See, what I just placed in bold, now I'm George, lol! Now, let's leave this nice science thread for people that want to know more about science. I believe George left it at "Zero Distance."  
  • Members

    No members to show

  • Recent Status Updates

    • lauleb  »  misette

      merci pour ton travail très utile. tu es une aide qui fortifie
      · 0 replies
    • Pamela Dunston  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hi, TB
      I would like to get the weekly meeting and watchtower materials  and the 2024 convention 
      Attend the 2024 Convention—“Declare the Good News!”
      notebook, I just recently got a new computer, If don't mind my brother to add me on and allow me access to our study again.
       
      Thank you, so much
      Sister Dunston
      · 2 replies
    • SpiritualSister 24  »  DARLENE2022

      Hello, Darlene, I just love your name, I had a cousin named Darline, and had a classmate also named Darlene! It's a pleasure to know another Darlene! Especially a Spiritual Sister! There's some websites, Ministry Ideaz , JW Stuff.com, and Etsy that I use to order my yearly buttons for the Conventions! They always send me what I order, and their also Jehovah's Witnesses, that send us the merchandise we order!  You can check out these websites, and they might have what your looking for! I hope I have been helpful in assisting you, Darlene! Agape love, Shirley!😀
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24

      2024"Enter Into God's Rest" Circuit Assembly! 
      · 0 replies
    • Janice Lewis  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hello Twyla, when will the weekly study material be available. I am a member.
      Janice Lewis     lewisjanice84@gmail.com
      Thank you
      · 1 reply
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      160k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,694
    • Most Online
      1,797

    Newest Member
    Gardeniableu
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.