How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?

[JOHN BUTLER]

Well it's only my opinion but if a person in not part of the solution then they are part of the problem.

If a person does not believe what the GB / W/t / JW Org says, yet still supports them by attending meetings and even worse doing ministry, which involves distributing literature 'of a dubious nature' and giving bible studies which are not truly bible studies but indoctrination from GB / W/t books, then that person is part of the problem. 

And back to what Tom calls my favourite subject, if a person invites families with young children to the KH, knowing that the KH might not be a 'safe place' to be, then that person is also part of that problem.  But that problem is caused by the GB rules of course, which allows for the hiding of 'unkind' people in the congregations. 

James, none of your cartoons hide the facts that a person cannot sit on the fence. A person either supports the whole rotten lot or does not support them. Them being the GB / W/t / JW Org as a complete bundle. 

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Nothing is more embarrassing than watching a con-man that is not good at it....

As it turns out, I have been assigned the #4 talk this week on how Paul described certain fellows few have heard of as “a strengthening aid” to him, as one taking the lead in the work at the time.

Whether I can use you as a modern-day example is dubious.

[JW Insider]

6 hours ago, Outta Here said:

But as you are publishing  a flawed argument to say that they are wrong and are misleading others, regardless of how it is euphemised, then this is more serious. It becomes a matter of personal opposition regardless of the suggestion that 1000s think this way.

Hmmmm. It's usually easy to identify anyone's remarks here as their opinion, and I have expressed my opinion. If I had said, or "published" as you say, that the city of Sodom must not be destroyed forever in the final judgment and they are therefore coming back in the resurrection, or that only the babies and children killed in the Flood of Noah's day are coming back in the resurrection, then you might immediately recognize that this was an opinion, even if I used Scriptures to back up my opinion. Especially if you recognized that I was using a different set of scriptures than our publications use in order to back up my opinion.

No matter whether I think that something you or Tom or Witness, or John, or Anna or Jack or others might be right or wrong, if I can recognize that it is different from the most recent published presentation in the publications or from the platform, then I know that you or they have formed an opinion, no matter how sure anyone is about that opinion.

But I would expect you (or them) to provide (publish) a reasonable and hopefully scriptural argument for that opinion. And I might expect that the argument could be very good or could very well be flawed. Just as my own opinion might be flawed.

An opinion can very well be in opposition to the majority opinion, or accepted doctrine. My mention of the fact that perhaps thousands might think this way is an acknowledgment of the fact that I have heard these opinions from others too, and I extrapolate because I don't think I'm so unique or special in any way, nor is this congregation.

I think sensitivities to differences on this particular opinion have been weighted by the fact that it is fast becoming the most repeated unique doctrine in the Watchtower study articles. Since 2014, the expressions "faithful slave" and "faithful and discreet slave" have regularly edged out "1914" and "generation" and "Armageddon." In fact, from 2016 to 2018, the date 1919 was used far more in the Watchtower than 1914. I think you can guess why.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Whether I can use you as a modern-day example is dubious.

Although it may leave a lot of scars, callouses, and actually make you stronger and more aware ... "Anything that does not kill you will make you stronger".

If you want a good audience laugh ... use me as a good example.

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

"Anything that does not kill you will make you stronger". 

Tell it to the victims of Child Sexual Abuse. Tell it to the people who have been shunned by their families.  Tell it to the people that have lost loved ones because the loved ones would not have blood. Tell it to everyone that has been misled and hurt by the W/t / JW / GB et al. 

Things don't make a person stronger, they may show the person their own strength, but many have no strength. If you have strength then be happy with it, but don't take it for granted. Many of us don't have that strength.  

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

James, none of your cartoons hide the facts that a person cannot sit on the fence. A person either supports the whole rotten lot or does not support them.

I disagree .... you lack the perspective that only time and a LOT of varied experiences can give you.

Jehovah's Witnesses management does a LOT of things wrong, but they also do a lot of things right ... that no one else is doing right.  In the Corporate world, a good executive is one who gets 50% of his decisions right ... and of course WHICH 50% makes all the difference in the world.

Would you quit a job at Microsoft, because every other operating system they release bombs out, and drives everyone nutso?   I would not.

The reason God commanded us to be in subjection to the "Superior Authorities" is NOT because they are even right most of the time .... but because even the VERY WORST are better than anarchy.

The fact that we know Jehovah and Christ as they really are gives us a significant edge in having a quiet, peaceful, and prosperous life.

The TRUTH sets us free.

Humans are just nasty, selfish and no-good, so stuff ALWAYS gets lost, in translation.

I don't bitch and moan about what the Catholics, Baptists, etc., ad nauseum do or do not do, because they are a lost cause, and cannot reform.

My sincere hope is that we, do.

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

41 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Things don't make a person stronger, they may show the person their own strength, but many have no strength. If you have strength then be happy with it, but don't take it for granted. Many of us don't have that strength. 

Very, very true ... but the first step to becoming invincible ( which is only a goal you might get CLOSE to ..) is to grit your teeth, and form an unbreakable resolve that that is who you WANT to be.

The following poem helped me a great deal ... written by a man who was dying of disease. I was taught it in the 8th grade in public school, and it took me 40 years of repetition to learn it by heart, without missing lines.

Invictus

By William Ernest Henley

Out of the night that covers me,

      Black as the pit from pole to pole,

I thank whatever gods may be

      For my unconquerable soul.

 

In the fell clutch of circumstance

      I have not winced nor cried aloud.

Under the bludgeonings of chance

      My head is bloody, but unbowed.

 

Beyond this place of wrath and tears

      Looms but the Horror of the shade,

And yet the menace of the years

      Finds and shall find me unafraid.

 

It matters not how strait the gate,

      How charged with punishments the scroll,

I am the master of my fate,

      I am the captain of my soul.

 

Also, it may help to watch about 5 or 10 times, John Wayne's last movie, "The Shootist",  made as he was dying of cancer in real life. At that time, one lung had been removed, and the other was failing.

 

He had to rest between "takes".

 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

.... remember Billy, the anagram of God, is doG.

karb?

oops....

Grok?

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

I will always laugh when anyone on here compares the idea of serving God properly with some sort of worldly 'dealings'. 

The only way of comparing serving God properly is with what God has had written as instruction in His written word the Bible. (I presume that God guided not only the writings but also the gathering of the 66 books). 

The reason God commanded us to be in subjection to the "Superior Authorities" is NOT because they are even right most of the time .... but because even the VERY WORST are better than anarchy.

That is obvious, but not so obvious to the Soc /Org, that they couldn't leave that scripture alone. They even had to deliberately change the meaning of it to gain power for themselves. 

Quote "The TRUTH sets us free." Yes true truth would. Or are you caught up in that trick of the Soc/Org's, that using the word truth means they speak truth or teach truth ?  Can you not see the con in that ? The deliberate deception. It is done to work on the emotions / sub conscious or what ever gives people that 'good' feeling. By calling it the 'truth', 'being in the truth', people let down their guard, they start to believe ALL of it. They do not question anything that comes from the Watchtower mags or from the platform.  Add to that, that congregants are told not to have their own opinion and/or not to discuss anything that may differ from 'instructions'. 

HOW MUCH FREEDOM DOES THAT GIVE PEOPLE, BEING DICTATED TO BY THE GB RIGHT DOWN TO THE ELDERS. Being frightened of being d/fed for the slightest thing. Is that the freedom you get from the JW Org ? 

Quote : "Humans are just nasty, selfish and no-good".  You must mix with the wrong crowd James. Oh yes you mix with JW's. 

I get involved in automobilia auctions, I go to classic car shows, I go to vintage motor scooter shows, I spend too much time viewing all sorts of auctions, and the people are great. Very friendly and sociable. In fact I tend to meet up with the same people regularly at auctions and there is no bitterness if I win lots or if they do. 

Your view of humans being nasty, selfish and no good, is just a JW viewpoint to try to frighten people from mixing with 'outsiders'.  But haven't we seen where the trouble really lies ? Inside that JW org. That's where many of the nasty, selfish, no goods are. Including the GB in my opinion. 

Oh by the way, do you honestly think God wants a GB or an Org that is only 50% obedient, or only gets 50% right ? 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

OK John .... what is YOUR solution to the way humanity really is?

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 minute ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

OK John .... what is YOUR solution to the way humanity really is?

There is only one solution to the way the Devil is trying his best to run this world. 

Jesus died so that God could put it all right, but God will chose His own time. 

I've said many times that there is not a useable Organisation here on Earth right now for God to use properly. So God would probably have to work on that one. Whether God will 'sort out' the JW Org or build a new Org is not for me to guess. (I leave the guessing to the GB & Co). 

As for humanity, well I think it has a while yet to keep on keeping on. The Earth is still quite useable and no serious damage had been done by nukes. Although many people die, the human race keeps increasing, so it is not the full on disaster that 'science' seems to say it is. There could be another hundred years yet. 

There does not seem to me to be any seriousness in serving God though. Some on here keep comparing the  GB / JW org to the early Christians, but those early Christians gave up everything and had basically nothing. In contrast some pioneers here in the UK will not accept second hand items from people, and they will only buy new. JW's live in luxury in many places compared to the early Christians. I'm not including places like Russia as that situation is totally different, but in UK I know of JW's still having posh houses built for them. So maybe God is wanting people to serve Him more seriously. 

[TrueTomHarley]

Colossians 4:11:  “...Only these are my fellow workers for the kingdom of God, and these very ones have become a strengthening aid to me.  Keep that yo-yo JTR away from me though, for he keeps leaving banana peels for me to slip on. I nearly broke my  neck on his last one, and when I rebuked him for it, he said:

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Anything that does not kill you will make you stronger".