Jehovah’s Witnesses former members tell court they were subjected to ‘total control’

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

...sigh ....

I am still waiting for an honest, Word-for-word translation of the JW Russian court trials from the Society, in English, but hopefully in all languages that they normally translate into. 

So far, an estimated $80,000,000 ( EIGHTY MILLION DOLLARS) in International postage seems to have nothing to show for it, except fuel a LOT of home furnaces this coming winter, in the Kremlin.

To be "in the Truth" .... you have to do things that actually ADVANCE the TRUTH.

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[TrueTomHarley]

51 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

So far, an estimated $80,000,000 ( EIGHTY MILLION DOLLARS) in International postage seems to have nothing to show for itbcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabc

Nonsense. At the very least, even disregarding the worldwide witness given - I mean, who else has such love for every other member that they would do such a thing? - they have 'rescued' Post Offices the world over, which are always on the brink of collapse. Thus, they make for themselves friends in high places.

You need to be more positive, JTR. Turn that frown upside down.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

TTH: As a stamp collector, you should know how the Universal Postal Union systems work ...

We know from the Russian Federation's Supreme Court Ruling that the Brothers in Russia did NOT benefit from the letter writing campaign, but the GOVERNMENT DID. 

The Universal Postal Union paid the Russian Federation  70% of the face value of the international postage affixed to deliver the approximately 45 million letters to their recipients ... whether they did so, of just hauled them to the dump. 

That means the Russian Federation got $56 MILLION DOLLARS as a Universal Postal Union terminal duty, paid for by the Brothers. 

That will buy a LOT of Vodka.

That having been said ... *coff*..... my main point is ....

" I am still waiting for an honest, Word-for-word translation of the JW Russian court trials from the Society, in English, but hopefully in all languages that they normally translate into. "

Tome of a recalcitrant Philatelist with Numismatic interests.

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[TrueTomHarley]

17 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

That will buy a LOT of Vodka.

What's with this anti-Russian slur? In these days of hate speech, one should be concerned about getting flagged over a remark such as that.

[Witness]

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We need wait no more. JWBroadcasting now reporting on increased attention worldwide as result of the ban and resulting publicity, people checking to see if jw. org is really extremist and finding it is not. Knowledge of this contribution to the worldwide ministry will fortify Russian brothers for some time to come.

Thank you, Witness, for adding to the letter count, and thus magnifying attention. They were all sunk to the bottom of the sea anyway, most likely. But the impression of the count is overwhelming. Just ask Guinness.

Of course it will be spun that the Russian event is viewed as a “witness to Jehovah”! Mark Sanderson said so!

 Forget what God’s decrees say!  We love the organization more than God’s decrees!  

We love everything about it, even IF we refuse to protect the innocent!  Even IF we refuse to see the anointed ones cornered with a heavy fist hanging over them ready to crush them completely!

Isa 30:1,2, 8-19, 20,21,22  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa+30%3A1%2C2%2C+8-19%2C+20%2C21%2C22&version=NKJV

We MUST support “Jehovah’s organization”!

If you stepped out of your comfort zone and read the many, many, many reports of extremism declared by those who have suffered from it, you would come back with a different story.  Maybe.  God’s decrees weigh little in the Watchtower, while the desire of the eyes weighs heavily.  After all, the internet cannot be trusted when stories don’t coincide with what you want to believe about the organization.

Who and what is this all about, folks?  Is it about the organization and its image, or is it about God and his righteous Laws?

Tom, I daresay, I believe you think it is all about you.

“The Lord rises to argue the case
and stands to judge the people.
 The Lord brings this charge
against the elders and leaders of His people:
“You have devastated the vineyard.
The plunder from the poor is in your houses.
 Why do you crush My people
and grind the faces of the poor?”
This is the declaration
of the Lord God of Hosts.”  Isa 3:13-15

The GB are like “Edom” who have forfeited their “birthright”  Heb 12:7-9; 14-17,25-27  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Heb+12%3A7-9%3B+14-17%2C25-27&version=HCSB

“Look, I will make you insignificant
among the nations;
you will be deeply despised.
 Your presumptuous heart has deceived you,
you who live in clefts of the rock
in your home on the heights,
who say to yourself,
“Who can bring me down to the ground?”
 Though you seem to soar like an eagle
and make your nest among the stars,
even from there I will bring you down.
This is the Lord’s declaration.”  Obadiah 1;2-4

 

[TrueTomHarley]

30 minutes ago, Witness said:

Of course it will be spun that the Russian event is viewed as a “witness to Jehovah”! Mark Sanderson said so!

He spins it pretty convincingly, in my estimation.

31 minutes ago, Witness said:

 

If you stepped out of your comfort zone and read the many, many, many reports of extremism

Surely, that is too many.

33 minutes ago, Witness said:

Tom, I daresay, I believe you think it is all about you.

Why do you crush My people
and grind the faces of the poor?”

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some poor to crush and faces to grind,

I'm sorry, Witness. I just can't take it seriously. It's too snarky to suggest that therapy is in order but - c'mon!

[Witness]

40 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He spins it pretty convincingly, in my estimation.

Surely, that is too many.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some poor to crush and faces to grind,

I'm sorry, Witness. I just can't take it seriously. It's too snarky to suggest that therapy is in order but - c'mon!

I am truly sorry you cannot see they symbolic "trampling" of God's sanctuary - Christ's brothers.  Not even God's words are proof enough for you.

[Witness]

Following, are excerpts from the outline of the Sunday afternoon Convention talk entitled, "Keep In Expectation...It Will Not Be Late"

“Jesus foretold that true worshippers—his followers—would preach the good news of the Kingdom “in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations” (Mt 24:14) Think of how far the preaching work has come in the past century! [Cite recent figures] Should we take an extreme view of Jesus’ words “all the inhabited earth,” as if we must reach every individual on the planet with the Kingdom message before Jehovah will bring an end to the present system of things? Surely not; Jesus’ own words suggest that the preaching work will still be underway when the great tribulation begins [Read Matthew 10:23]”

While the Watchtower interprets Matt 24:14 as a preaching work carried out among the entire realm of mankind, their sited scripture, Matt 10:23, shows otherwise.

“When they persecute you in one town, escape to another. For I assure you: You will not have covered the towns of ISRAEL before the Son of Man comes.”

Who is “Israel” today? From the WT 14/11/15 –

“Spiritual Israel, or “the Israel of God”: The people whom Jehovah has chosen by means of holy spirit to become his nation. THEY ARE ALL ANOINTED. They do not come from any specific race or country on earth. Jehovah made a covenant with this new nation, and they replaced ancient Israel as his people”

We begin to see the connection of who the “inhabited earth” is, that must be preached to.

“This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the world^[a] as a testimony to all nations. And then the end will come.”

The footnote for world says, “all inhabited earth”, which in Greek is oikoumenē.

“Oikou”( οἰκέω) –  from 3624 /oíkos,(which can refer to a lineage, a nation)

 "a house, dwelling, habitation" – properly, to make a home; living "at home" (i.e. comfortably) because it is one's residence; "to be at home."  (Strong’s #3611)

“Mene/meno” (μένω) - to stay, abide, remain (Strong’s #3306)

Can you see that the “earth” that is inhabited is the dwelling place of God – His chosen anointed nation, spiritual “Israel”, and who receive the end time message?  Can you see the futility of a world-wide preaching work that is not directed to spiritual “Israel”?

1 Cor 3:16;6:19; John 14:23; Rom 8:9; Eph 2:19https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Cor+3%3A16%3B6%3A19%3B+John+14%3A23%3B+Rom+8%3A9%3B+Eph+2%3A19&version=NIV

Why doesn’t the Watchtower realize that this preaching should be directed to the anointed ones?  They DO, but by using employed diversion tactics, the anointed and their brethren are left in the dark -  captive to ‘empty philosophy’ and a powerful charade.  Gen 3:15; 2 Cor 11:3,4; Col 2:8; Matt 7:15-20; Luke 21:24; Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:1-4;9-12; Rev 13:1-10  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gen+3%3A15%3B+2+Cor+11%3A3%2C4%3B+Col+2%3A8%3B+Matt+7%3A15-20%3B+Luke+21%3A24%3B+Matt+24%3A15%3B+2+Thess+2%3A1-4%3B9-12%3B+Rev+13%3A1-10  &version=NIV

The outline continues:

“Should we conclude, though, that the day may yet be far off? HOW DO WE KNOW THAT IT WILL COME SOON? (18 min.) To answer that, let us consider evidence from three different categories of Bible prophecies about our times

 (1) Prophecies regarding the anointed Daniel chapter 12 says much regarding “the holy people,” Christ’s anointed followers (vs. 7)

  (a) They would “wake up . . . to everlasting life,” becoming spiritually revived despite opposition (vs. 2; dp 291 [1]10)

  (b) They would “shine . . . brightly . . . like the stars” and bring “many to righteousness” (vs. 3)

  (c) They would “rove about” in God’s Word, finding enlightenment (vs. 4)

  (d)They would undergo a “dashing to pieces” of their power, suggesting that they would be viciously attacked (vs. 7)

  (e) They would be “refined” and would “cleanse themselves” (vs. 10)

It makes me wonder how the speaker will spin this “attack” that appears to have happened in Watchtower’s history a long while ago (perhaps using a video?); while in the meantime the anointed ones suffer from the ‘attack’ of an Elder Body, the fourth Beast of Daniel’s prophesy.  Their power has diminished to a name only; as they “obey” the elders under the threat of disfellowshiping.  Dan 7:7,8,21,23,25;8:9-12; 23-25;11:21-24,31-35  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Dan+7%3A7%2C8%2C21%2C23%2C25%3B8%3A9-12%3B+23-25%3B11%3A21-24%2C31-35 &version=NIV

The WT is well aware of the preaching that is being done to “Israel”, by the “two witnesses” of Revelation; thus they struggle to deflect the attention of this work, reminding JWs that Daniel’s prophesy in Chapter 12 as being fulfilled in the early 1900’s.    Rev 11:1-5  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+11%3A1-5&version=NIV

The outline:

“The anointed had begun to “rove about” in the pages of God’s Word before the last days began. Their spiritual enlightenment attracted many to the truth. Anointed Christians were attacked, but after that difficult period of refinement, they launched a global preaching campaign that has brought many to righteousness.”

A “difficult period of refinement” – from what?  Their own teachings have lead millions down a crooked, dark path of uninspired doctrine. The WT teaches that the refinement period happened from 1914 to 1919, when the “Temple” (God's priesthood) was inspected and found “free of the influence of Babylon the Great”. 

Please keep in mind, JWs, that the teachings beyond that time included 1925 as the date of Armageddon, that the Great Pyramid in Egypt was “an inanimate witness of the Lord, and its testimony speaks with great eloquence concerning the divine plan", and that “millions now living would never die”. 

Only by stepping away from the WT will the anointed and companions have the opportunity of being led to righteousness because of refinement from lies and idolatry to an organization.  Mal 3:1-3; Rev 3:18  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Mal+3%3A1-3%3B+Rev+3%3A18 &version=NIV

JWs, can you see that a “global preaching campaign” is a façade to keep God’s chosen nation and brethren locked in to an “operation of error”?  Therefore, your convention topic is on endurance; for you to persistently endure the organization and its false teachings, where spiritual enlightenment does NOT exist. 2 Cor 6:14 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+6%3A14&version=NIV

When reading or listening to Romans 10, notice that the same word, “oikoumenē”, “all inhabited earth” is used in Rom 10:18.

Also notice that in verse 9, this “good news” is preached by those who are “confessing” with their mouth Jesus as Lord…

“and believes in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved”.

 While the WT translates Rom 10:13 as, “For everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved”, clearly it is the name of Jesus that is signified here. 

Why? Israel knew who God was, and the early preaching work by the apostles was about Christ as salvation. Rom 10:14-15   Just as the majority were a hard-hearted people and refused to accept God’s Son as salvation, spiritual “Israel” and all in the Watchtower do the same.  They may speak his name, but give obedience to another master, the Body of Elders, and lift their eyes to an organization for salvation.  Matt 6:24; Rev 13:4; 9:20; Isa 46:5-13  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+6%3A24%3B+Rev+13%3A4%3B+9%3A20%3B+Isa+46%3A5-13&version=NIV

Rom 10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+10&version=NIV

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

A million words, presented to a guy that would chain-saw the elephant in his bath tub without discussion.

Put on your visualization hat, and explain to me what is going on in Revelation 1:1, in the first 11 or so words.

OBVIOUSLY GOD IS NOT JESUS ... says so there in black and white in EVERY English Translation, at least the 20 and more I quoted previously.

GOD gave the revelation to Jesus ... who until that happened, was IGNORANT of the revelation's contents ... THEN Jesus gave it to John.

Be a sport ... try to get around the simple, clear, unambiguous description of who is who, and who is NOT .. in Revelation 1:1 .... without fracturing the English language, or bending your mind into a pretzel.

Be a sport .... I will enjoy the gymnastics.

OH ... and When revelation describes Jesus sitting at the right hand of God, John was NOT suggesting proctology .. or having one sit on his OWN lap.

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[Witness]

35 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

A million words, presented to a guy that would chain-saw the elephant in his bath tub without discussion.

Put on your visualization hat, and explain to me what is going on in Revelation 1:1, in the first 11 or so words.

OBVIOUSLY GOD IS NOT JESUS ... says so there in black and white in EVERY English Translation, at least the 20 and more I quoted previously.

GOD gave the revelation to Jesus ... who until that happened, was IGNORANT of the revelation's contents ... THEN Jesus gave it to John.

Be a sport ... try to get around the simple, clear, unambiguous description of who is who, and who is NOT .. in Revelation 1:1 .... without fracturing the English language, or bending your mind into a pretzel.

Be a sport .... I will enjoy the gymnastics.

OH ... and When revelation describes Jesus sitting at the right hand of God, John was NOT suggesting proctology .. or having one sit on his OWN lap.

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Don't worry, JTR; I don't believe Jesus is God, God is Jesus, only that they are one in Spirit and purpose.  

I will send a link privately to an article that shows how the "two witnesses" and 7 congregations relate to the holy ones. Rev 1:1 - The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants (anointed) what must soon take place.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

"What, Me Worry?"

Why not make it public?  This is the "Arena of Ideas" ... even stupid ones.

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

Don't worry, JTR; I don't believe Jesus is God, God is Jesus, only that they are one in Spirit and purpose.  

Rather than take a field trip down Booger's Woods, why not clarify why B=A, but that A is NOT equal to B.

OOOoughah ... Pretzel Alert!

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[Witness]

8 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"What, Me Worry?"

Why not make it public?  This is the "Arena of Ideas" ... even stupid ones.

Rather than take a field trip down Booger's Woods, why not clarify why B=A, but that A is NOT equal to B.

OOOoughah ... Pretzel Alert!

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I am respecting admin's wishes.