Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"

[TrueTomHarley]

9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

TTH I presume you are in contact with JTR so that you are able to know why he does what he does. 

You have not figured out yet that JTR was one of my aliases?

[Arauna]

12 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

as for blood, they are not the only ones; blood is both risky, as is culturally damaging.

Yep. I have told my own story here many times. How my 9 month baby had a full day surgery to remove cancer from both sides of the chest cavity which also stuck to the spine. The fact that she did NOT have blood saved her life. Her miracle is amazing because she is almost 42 years old.

Yes, I researched blood....... very damaging and most people who die from anaphylactic shock due to blood  - it is not on the death certificate. They say "complications from surgery". 

[Arauna]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

was one of my aliases?

Not the same sense of humor..... unless you have multiple personality..... lol

[Arauna]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

But in his case, it is the way it was done.  I think you know that.

No matter how he did it - he would be criticized. I guess they try to live normal lives and try to side-step the severe scrutiny. Jesus was called a glutton and other names.

[Arauna]

12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

why you even bother to answer, I guess you have better patience to listen to dishonest hearts than me.😌

I sometimes wonder too!  But my hope is that I could change a 1% perspective of someone.  I do not have the same culture as most  people on this forum.... so I often see things differently..... and sometimes it has served me well. 

I have however, thought many things through, pondered over bible teachings, the GB, the slave,  and I like philosophy and history.... which influences my opinions.  It has helped me to realize that I appreciate Jehovahs organization - no matter how flawed.  It is easy to judge when not in the GB 's shoes.

Many here may be smarter than me, and  I pick up their arrogance in their replies. While I sometimes come across as "blind believer" in the GB and slave -  it is definitely not the case. I have made a choice because of  understanding and hopefully some wisdom.

I do however judge with mercy. Is this not what is required? Justice and mercy? An unbiased perspective at all times? 

I am not here to quote umpteen scriptures and preach to others. Most here love God I am sure.... but I find that some are too critical of others and have too little of Christ 101 spirit to quote a friend on here.  Some I outright call hate-mongers. But all people are worth our time - while there is still time. 

Their own attitudes may close the door for them.  In south Africa I preached to white supremacists. These people's own attitudes closed the door for them - not me. When I mentioned that God approves all people - they were not prepared to listen. Similarly on here...... peoples own attitudes could be detrimental to approval by  jehovah.

[Arauna]

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another. Prov 27 17

Only if the iron wants to be sharpened - therein lies the rub! 

Only associations, which are based on a sincere search for a better understanding or even love, can sharpen wisdom.

[Srecko Sostar]

15 hours ago, César Chávez said:

However, let's keep it in the right prospective. The Morris liquor fiasco

For me, to see GB members in the shop buying what ever he need or wish is normal thing. That fact not need to be of any specific interest for public.  

Just, to see such highly positioned individual (top manager in WTJWorg) without make up, neat hairstyle, clothes, clean fingers/hands with an expensive watch and ring, because of TV studio preparations, makes next, different picture and perception about person.

 In all that is normal how no one of us looks "perfect" in various situations and circumstances through a day.

This short shop video about Mr. Morris is "perfect" for another reason. To see one of them in "normal" situation and say to yourself: "What, Hey, this is the guy who preparing my spiritual food ?" :))

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Arauna Quote  " I do not have the same culture as most  people on this forum.... so I often see things differently.... "

That applies to me also. And @Srecko Sostar I would think too. 

I have the feeling that most on here are American and of course most of the GB ( 7 out of 8 ) are also American. Unfortunately it would seem that Americans are raised to have an attitude. And to have that 'Collateral Damage is OK', frame of mind. 

But you've raised a point. You do not have 'the same culture' and therefore you often 'see things differently'. 

Now, apply that to the GB. If they were from different parts of the Earth, they would be from different cultures and would 'see things differently'. What a wonderful mixture of men that could bring in. Many on here have said that the GB are not especially highly educated. So having men from different cultures / countries would not be a problem. It's not the level of worldly education that would matter, it is the spirituality of the men. 

( Worldly education is however needed to get worldly employment. )

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You have not figured out yet that JTR was one of my aliases?

That is an insult to Mr Rook. 

[JW Insider]

12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I’m not sure where all this Zondervan stuff started, but I wish that somewhere Rolf could have pointed out the conflict-of-interest in putting Big Business in charge of distributing the Word of God. . . .    He might also point out how such a channel means that rigorously translating a ‘trinity’ scripture will not doom the Bible in the marketplace, as it would in Zondervan’s case.

Far be it from me to discuss something here that belongs in a different topic, 😉 but I was thinking the same thing. Outta Here pointed this out with a reference to something I had never seen before, and which appears to be a true sentiment of translators who let tradition invalidate parts of God's word. In this case, it refers to Zondervan's NIV:

On 12/15/2018 at 4:50 AM, Outta Here said:

An example . . . would be the response of one Edwin H Palmer, (Executive Secretary for the Committee on Bible Translation for the NIV), on a question as to why the name Jehovah had been ommitted from the NIV translation. He said in 1979: "we put 2 1/4 million dollars into this translation, and a sure way of throwing that down the drain is to translate, for example, Ps.23 as, "Yahweh is my shepherd"." 

 

[JW Insider]

12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Are you saying he [Furuli] should have counseled the GB not to keep using references from Zondervan?

To discourage worldly interpretation such as acceptance of homosexuality, then yes!

At least you are consistent in saying that you think the GB should be counseled about this, too. If counseling the GB is really the right thing to do, don't you think that you should counsel the GB not to quote from Zondervan publications, now that Furuli has failed to do so? You would be the right person to do this since I doubt that any other Witness around here would have even thought about this. I'd bet that no others here even agree with you on this point. So, it looks like it's up to you if you really think it's the right thing to do. 😉

12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Yet, you contend, that I don't like to accept when I am wrong, where does that leave you, since you want to continue a nonsensical argument.

I don't want to continue it, but since we've both had ample opportunity to consider the evidence for or against your original claims, I don't see any point in belaboring it either. You've already moved on to "adjusted" claims, so I think that each of us have made the point we hoped to make.

12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

What was the point you disagreed with, that you saw similarities between Rolf and Raymond?

Someone else who hadn't even seen the discussion here, just recently asked me if I had noticed the same thing. He mentioned items that match what was already brought out here in the discussion and even more. So, yes, this is a good topic. Perhaps we should start another topic since this topic is already quite lengthy. 

12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Then you continue to insist on a false premise just because you got it wrong to what I saw pointing out about Zondervan publishing house that you to continue to try to clean up at all cost?

Classic!

12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

The fact I have proven your false claim with my evidence of where I was referring to, and you get upset because you can't read my mind only shows weakness.

Your false claim was based upon false evidence. That was obvious, and is even more obvious now. But I do admit that it would be interesting to understand your mind. I like people and enjoy learning about them and learning from them. And watching how people think has always been of great interest to me. Perhaps it is a weakness, but I have learned much from the discussion.

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

That is an insult to Mr Rook. 

Mr Rook would not be so thin-skinned to see it that way. He would have had a good belly-laugh over it. You would have us believe that you were his friend? You did everything you could to separate him from his God. Remember, he was on my side of the Great Issue, not yours.

He came to have the same problem that Rolf is going to have—having “false friends” sucking him dry for info, kissing his feet with praise, ecstatic at the ‘dirt’ they think he is spilling, then turning around and saying he is delusional for not abandoning every last vestige of Witness belief—just like you do with JWI. At the same time, his genuine friends distance themselves. At least Rolf will find some companionship within the airy world of ‘scholarship’—no such luck for JTR.

It was worse for JTR. Rolf makes perfectly clear that he regards his faith as true. I gather that he is not too different from JWI, who has issues with some organizational matters, but has no problem acknowledging that there must be leadership and cooperating with it on that basis.  In contrast, JTR came across as a ‘spiritual terrorist,’ and it is only upon close examination—which the average Witness will be not inclined to do in view of his outrageous remarks—that one can see his love for Jehovah was genuine. Even his own kids deserted him—something he freely admitted—this despite the fact that he was not under congregation censure..

You simply cannot go about harshly criticizing ones held in high esteem—ones loved for their hard work and example—and expect to keep your friends. The loudest applause at any convention is at the question, “Would you like to send your greetings to the brothers in Bethel?” It’s like if some would come around and pretend to be my friends, saying the nicest things about me, yet they absolutely cannot stand my wife, and never fail to hurl abuses at her. Is that going to work with me? Will I be taken in? I don’t think so. And yes, the earthly organization is likened to a beloved human—a mother, as that AlanF, with the IQ of a Descartes and an EQ of the Sesame Street Cookie Monster, changed to ‘mommy,’ hoping to infuriate people.

I like to think with JTR it was a case of Psalm 141:5 and that he has time to undo the damage. Of course, you always have time to undo it with Jehovah if your turnaround is genuine, but I hope it is with family and friends as well.

“Should the righteous one strike me, it would be an act of loyal love; Should he reprove me, it would be like oil on my head, Which my head would never refuse. My prayer will continue even during their calamities.” 

I like to think it was that way here with a few who slammed him pretty hard but also made clear that the rebuke was not personal—and that he as a person had some very appealing qualities. I tried to do that, and I had some acknowledgement from him in ‘thanks’ emojis, not just upvotes. Others did this, as well—his spiritual brothers with his best interests at heart. I could well be a little too Pollyanna in reviewing how it has turned out—but his last few comments very neatly tie into a Pollyanna view—so that’s the one I’ll take. 

He wasn’t really wrong in the factual nature of anything he said—he was ‘wrong’ in how he had processed it. You can’t go about life being hypercritical. You have to be ready to move on. You can’t go digging through the diamonds to find the dirt. You have to be ready to forgive. It is an important theme of Jesus that he came to feel he ought more fully get his heart around.

You kept telling him how he could bask in a fine relationship with God while sticking it to the visible organization. He had too much common sense and honesty to fall for it. He knew that path leads inevitably to become fully part of the word—in time, doing all that the world does and thinking it can be offset with a smiley God emoji. 

Mark Smith’s book Secular Faith points out that the typical church member has more in common with atheists than with members of his own denomination of 100 years ago. That is what happens in the absence of an earthly counterpart to the heavenly organization. JTR knew that. That was among the things he meant when he lamented that he should have been closer to Jehovah.

Go ahead, you idiot—slap another braying emoji on this one.