Why does the whole body of elders in a congregation not serve on a judicial committee?

[Evacuated]

46 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Was that your answer?

 

 I'll explain. I'll deal with the first part. Do you think the Christian Congregation existed at the time of Jesus? Or do you think Jesus died before the Christian Congregation was founded. Or what do you think?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The Christian Congregation was founded DURING Christ's lifetime ... the Apostles were assembled, not to play soccer on Wednesday afternoons. Disciples by the tens of thousands were not congregated for a concert.

By the time he was executed there were many thousands of believers, and practicers.

Perhaps I should rephrase my original paragraphs .....

Remember .... Among the Jewish Congregations of God,  before Roman  Military Occupation,  trials were held in the city gates, where EVERYONE could see, speak up, and judge the judges.... and judge the PROCESS of Justice.

Among the Jews, the "whole body" of Jews involved in adjudication of sin and crimes worked well for several thousand years ... and it worked well in the Early Christian Congregation for about 270 years along the same model ... until the rise of the Roman Catholic Church, whose evolution was guided by Roman political concerns, under the lead of that master politician, Emperor Constantine.

.... which is how the system evolved into what we have now.

Just remember ... in Jesus' time, during his life and for about 270 years afterward ...  such trials were held before the whole Christian Congregation.

THAT is the example we should be following ...

[Evacuated]

Thanks for clarifying your view. @James Thomas Rook Jr. 

I like the idea of transparency in the judicial process.

This enabled a pretty fair assessment of its achievements by the Judge of all the earth himself: "The whole head is sick, and the whole heart is diseased. From the sole of the foot to the head, nothing is healthy.There are wounds and bruises and open sores—they have not been treated or bound up or softened with oil." Is.61:5-6

And later, in his time, Jesus observed of the legal authorities in his day "“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness. These things it was necessary to do, yet not to disregard the other things. Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel!" Matt.23:23. Their crowning achievement was the mock trial and execution of Jesus Christ himself.

The Christian Congregation (which did not exist until after the death of its founder as a man), left much to be desired on occasion, "But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who oppress you and drag you before law courts?7 Do they not blaspheme the fine name by which you were called?" James 2:6-7.

Jesus own assessment of the condition of the congregation at Revelation 2-3 show a rather patchy performance, even at that early stage of deviation. Subsequent to the death of John and the development of apostasy, we can only surmise on the actual practice of "justice" amongst Christian groups up to 270CE. I cannot see any reason why it would differ from what we currently see, a prevalence of injustice, although conscientous and enlightened individuals might appear from time to time, with some influence, although limited overall success. 

Jehovah's word through Isaiah quoted above still provides a pretty fair comparison. 

There will be no justice in the earth until the real fulfillment of Psalm 72:11-14 "All the kings will bow down before him, and all the nations will serve him.  For he will rescue the poor who cry for help,Also the lowly one and whoever has no helper. He will have pity on the lowly and the poor, and the lives of the poor he will save.  From oppression and from violence he will rescue them,And their blood will be precious in his eyes."

Meantime, we have the best possible option given the circumstances. Spiritually qualified men judge appropriate spiritual matters using the rule of Scripture, under the steadying direction of the Head of the congregation. The administration of criminal justice remains firmly in the hand of the secular authorities.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I find it very difficult to imagine Jesus and the Apostles in the ministry for THREE YEARS, and no Christian Congregation formed from those being taught and baptized.

How did these new ones accomplish THEIR ministry and make new converts, as did in fact happen?

In fact, I don't believe it.

It does not pass the "common sense" test.

 

 

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"common sense" test.

I know there is a tendency to adopt this kind of a logic, but it isn't that reliable really. 

Proverbs 14:12:"There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death".

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

OK, Outta Here .... YOU tell ME how it was that the Christian Congregation developed during the time of Jesus' three year ministry.

I am open to any idea that passes the common sense test ... and is constant with the life and times of the Jews during and after Jesus' time on Earth.

Your nebulous, foggy statement ......  by itself.....  is totally meaningless.

[Evacuated]

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Your nebulous, foggy statement ......  by itself.....  is totally meaningless.

Bit like this drivel do you mean? :

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

the common sense test

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

how it was that the Christian Congregation developed during the time of Jesus' three year ministry.

It didn't come into existence until 33CE Pentecost.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, Outta Here said:

t didn't come into existence until 33CE Pentecost.

So ...if that is so ... what did the 10,000 or so anointed, baptized, dedicated Christians do for the previous three years?

Get together and play soccer?

... or just wander around, occasionally bumping into each other?

[Evacuated]

19 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

what did the 10,000 or so anointed, baptized, dedicated Christians do for the previous three years?

Get together and play soccer?

... or just wander around, occasionally bumping into each other?

Your guess is a s good as mine.

Your reference to soccer, likely ironic, is interesting. Harpastum ikely raised some curiosity among Jews but in view of their general attitude toward Gentiles was likely limited.

As for the 10,000 who became members of the congregation after Pentecost 33CE, well yes, they likely all had interesting experiences on their various paths to becoming Jehovah's Witnesses, but alas, not for our ears mostly. I  would not have thought their experience prior to Pentecost in general so much different to that any one finding the truth today They must have had an intial contact and then, commensurate with circumstance and level of interest, a variety of contacts. Some may have had their interest sparked by miracles, or just by a chance encounter with Jesus at one of the festivals.

They had an advantage in that they had access to a religious system that still had Jehovah's approval when it was practised. There wasn't the confusion over which was Jehovah's channel as there is today. And of course they had varying degrees of access to the scriptures (note the Ethiopian eunuch). There are enough named individuals and detail regarding them in the Gospels and Acts to piece together a picture of sorts of what some of the 10,000 or so were doing prior to their becoming anointed Christians. Of course, the fact that only 120 were present as instructed for the founding of the congregation is a useful indicator immediately of the circumstances of the time. ☺️

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Outta Here  Who decides that these Elders are " Spiritually qualified men " ?  

Wasn't it Anointed men that judged in the early Christian Congregations ? 

But now it would seem that the Anointed are told to sit back and keep quiet. 

And @Anna Thank you for this topic and your comments.  

[Evacuated]

Spritually qualified men are qualified by the spirit. Jehovah decides.

There were only anointed men (and women) in the early Christian Congregation

[JOHN BUTLER]

12 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Spritually qualified men are qualified by the spirit. Jehovah decides.

There were only anointed men (and women) in the early Christian Congregation

Yes I agree there were only Anointed ones in the early Christian congregation.

And my feeling is, it is only anointed ones that are Spiritually qualified. 

But those of the Anointed are not known generally so the Elders 'rule' in their place. 

If God had actually chosen the Elders then they would not be the kind of people that they are.