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8 hours ago, Arauna said:

Foreigners in China and high skilled workers 

I appreciate the concern expressed for Foreigner and the obvious good counsel. I did not “like” that comment itself so as not to draw you into the cabal in his eyes or anyone else’s.

Your advice and demeanor reminded me also of Jesus’ description of the prodigal son’s older brother, the one apparently intended to picture the Pharisees. As such, Jesus could have portrayed him quite negatively, but he did not. He focused only on the positive. The older brother HAD been faithful to his father’s household, and if he had any negative traits (as he must have if he was to picture the Pharisees) Jesus did not mention them.

It is an appeal to that group, and some took him up on it, as later “a great crowd of priests” became obedient to the faith. It offsets other times when the Lord ran them through the wringer, as he did in the 23rd chapter of Matthew, for example.

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That's true, but it would not attract as much attention. Rutherford had been a political marketer before following Russell/WT/Bible Students. This is why he would ADV/ADV/ADV. And why gimmicks like putting David and Abraham on a property deed were important to him. This is why he used the title "Judge." But I think it was Covington who figured out that he could do much better in the courts if we agreed to be recognized as a religion. Religious rights were easier to fight for than unspecifie

As vitriolic as the spiteful crticisms of apostate opposers are, there is a remarkable tide of recognition of the integrity of Jehovah's Witnesses, even among those who do not share our beliefs. Speaking of the voluntary stand of Jehovah's Witnesses against the oppressive demands of the Nazi and Fascist regimes in Germany and Italy this observation was recently made: "We owe it also to their sacrifice that there was the powerful push in civil society that gave birth to the European pro

Nobody but nobody has “apostates” like Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is almost as though I am proud of them. Every NT writer wrote about opposition and apostasy. If it happened then, it should happen now. What if there was no opposition today? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why? Since Witnesses do not seek to evade taxes, they pay into social & police services to a greater proportion than most groups. Since they put into practice Bible principles that improve lives, they draw upon those services

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The reason the United States has many more prisoners than other countrues is that FREEDOM is allowed for people that have not grown up enough to handle it.

Also ... we count the WHOLE person.

In other countries they count less because of missing hands, and sometimes even missing heads.

You probably don't need to imprison a thief that has had both hands cut off.

And of course, public executions do tend to cut down on the repeat offenders, quite a bit.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You probably don't need to imprison a thief that has had both hands cut off. And of course, public executions do tend to cut down on the repeat offenders, quite a bit.

JTR may be Captain America, but he does have a point here.

26 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

....Someone might even make the case that Josef Stalin did as well as could be expected with a large, ignorant, undisciplined peasant nation.

From what I have read he was pretty much that way himself—his excellence was in cunnning. During WWII, his son was captured by the Germans and he was given opportunity to ransom him. He declined the offer and the son died in a concentration camp.

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10 hours ago, Arauna said:

I also happen to have friends in Africa who is seeing the invasion of Chinese in all industry and rare earth minerals. I also read up about Australia- and they are afraid...... the CCP has changed in the last two years.... and changing fast.

Couldn't agree with you more on your assessment.

While it is true that back in the 90s a Chinese citizen could criticize if something was not right when it was placed as a ruling mandate, it doesn’t mean, Chinese citizens had full freedom to express what western nations call freedom of speech, freedom to live a life as they chose or pleased.

China is still a communist nation with limited freedoms. The problem now with China is what Hitler might have thought of after Germany lost WW1, resources.

China not only is targeting Africa but other nations like Australia. While it failed with Australia, and the USA, it is having an imprint in third world nations. Mexico is one of those nations.

 The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) also strengthened its power over the government

Bureaucracy in a major overhaul of central government structure in March. The party oversees a powerful new government body, the National Supervisory Commission, which is empowered to detain incommunicado anyone exercising public authority for up to six months without fair trial procedures in a system called “liuzhi.”

 

In October, Meng Hongwei, then-president of Interpol, the international police

Organization, and China’s vice minister for Public Security, disappeared upon return

To China and was assumed to be held in “liuzhi.” The CCP also subsumed state bodies in charge of religious, ethnic, and overseas Chinese affairs under a party agency, the United Front Work Department.

 

Authorities dramatically stepped up repression and systematic abuses against the 13 million Turkic Muslims, including Uyghurs and ethnic Kazakhs, in China’s northwestern Xinjiang region. Authorities have carried out mass arbitrary detention, torture, and mistreatment of some of them in various detention facilities, and increasingly imposed pervasive controls on daily life. New regulations in Tibet now criminalize even traditional forms of social action, including community mediation by religious figures. In Hong Kong, a region promised “a high degree of autonomy” under the Sino-British Joint Declaration, the Chinese and Hong Kong governments hastened their efforts in 2018 to undermine peoples rights to free speech and political participation.

 

Human rights defenders continue to endure arbitrary detention, imprisonment, and enforced disappearance. The government maintains tight control over the internet, mass media, and academia. Authorities stepped up their persecution of religious communities, including prohibitions on Islam in Xinjiang, suppression of Christians in Henan province, and increasing scrutiny of Hui Muslims in Ningxia.

 

If China was as free as some people think, we would know what happened to the young protester (Tank Man) in Tiananmen Square on June 4, 1989. This is why “censorship” has gotten worse in recent decades in China.

Therefore, both views can be correct. What is not correct is to think Chinese people can criticize the government of “mainland China” and think there won’t be consequences and retaliation from the government. I believe the word province works. Hong Kong is now a province of China where Chinese people have criticized the government of mainland china. What is happening now because of it?

 

Also, what Trump is doing to influence the advancement of prophetic time is in line with scripture. William Barr is advocating a more religious stance to bring his kind of “morality” back to US society.

The problem there, it conflicts with the moral and standards of scripture, even though BARR speaks as though it’s done in the name of Christ Jesus as an evangelical.

 

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6 hours ago, Arauna said:

I also have much older friends that just came from China and decided not to go back.

Yes. This is partly true. My old boss was from the mainland, where his parents still live, but had moved to work in Hong Kong before getting a job in New York. Most of his relatives still live on the mainland, so when he goes back he visits Hong Kong first, then his other relatives. We recently met at a restaurant with a couple other retirees from the same company, and we talked for a couple hours. I ran a few of these same "young people" arguments by him, and it's true that he is very wary of some of the government's business and economic plans, although he admits that they are currently working. He is very anti-communist as many Chinese-born US citizens are.

But the one area he says the US (and West) has all wrong is the Uyghur ("Weeger") situation. He says that you have to read between the lines, or learn how to pick the one CNN report in 10 that gets it right. He is surprised that they allow reports to be completely contradictory (although he listens to an International version of CNN) along with a lot of anti-Chinese media. What's curious is that these "concentration camps" are not "concentration camps," as there is no torture, no forced hard labor, etc.  Although Chinese are definitely behind it, they are actually run mostly by Weegers and for Weegers. One of the big thrusts of the Chinese government is to try to legislate against racism, and there is plenty of racism in China. If a group appears to be very unaccepting of other groups -to the point of using violence- they are supposed to go through training in their own culture and other cultures, too. This does include "indoctrination" in the goals of the government, what we would call classes in civics and citizenship, but he says it is mostly job training, and can even include moving a Weeger family to areas to get them better jobs. China ties the problem of poverty to violent rioting and demonstrations.  Muslims around the world have agreed that this has worked as a method of reducing radicalization and has eliminated terrorism.

Most of China, of course, are Han, although there are several million Weegers, mostly in the Xinjiang province. The first big problem with the Weegers came about after riots that evidently began with rumors of Weegers raping a Han, and other rumors that spread and morphed out of this one. The Han instigated violent riots against the Weegers, and China put a lot of effort into punishing the Han offenders. On the mainland, he says that the Chinese support and defense of the Weegers is a source of anger by racist Chinese. The actual number of Weegers required to go through the training programs are probably in the tens of thousands, he thinks. (The idea of "millions" is a Western invention.) He also mentioned that China has helped Muslims build mosques, not only in China but also in Africa. The Weegers have a vibrant culture in the Xinjiang province that China supports.

By the way, the entire Muslim world does NOT believe the Weeger propaganda. Even when the UN resolution condemning the "Weeger" situation was promoted by the West, it was signed on by only about 22 countries, all white (US, UK, etc) and ZERO Islamic countries signed onto the resolution. The NYT which attempts at least one big anti-China article every week, ended up reporting the Chinese side of the argument in the context of the 22 nation campaign. While generally negative, of course,

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also included the following:

China denied such actions when a United Nations human rights committee questioned the policy last year but later said it was providing vocational training to insulate Xinjiang’s population from what it described as the global scourge of extremism.

To counter international critics, last month China brought Xinjiang’s deputy governor, an ethnic Uighur, to the council, where he asserted that such training is lifting Xinjiang’s people from poverty. The deputy governor, Aierken Tuniyazi, also rejected accusations that the trainees are in detention camps.

“The trainees’ personal dignity and freedom are fully protected,” he said, describing students living in air-conditioned dormitories and dividing their time between learning valuable skills and participating in ethnic dancing, singing or sports.

China has used its economic leverage and diplomatic muscle to support this narrative with some success. Muslim countries have remained silent and have even praised China’s treatment of its Muslims. Cameroon, a beneficiary of Chinese infrastructure spending, devoted a statement in the council last week to praising China’s “big achievement” in Xinjiang.

And last month Vladimir Voronkov, the Russian diplomat heading the United Nations Counter-Terrorism Office, visited Xinjiang and in his end of mission statement made no reference to human rights concerns there, an omission that human rights groups saw as a propaganda gift to Chinese authorities.

What often raises my own suspicions on these topics is a common thread of US hypocrisy. The US and other Western nations have been overreacting to Muslim countries for many years now, because it's good for the military contractors, and the oil industry. (These are often synonymous with the meaning of the expression "American interests," the thing the US is protecting every time the US joins a conflict.) Therefore, the West looks to blame China for something that might sound even worse. The West uses the IMF and World Bank and even so-called Human Rights societies to help push an agenda in countries where the West wants to plunder resources. When the West builds infrastructure in another nation it's mostly to help get those resources out of the country, not to help local workers and local civilians. The US is infamous for promoting a need for certain facilities at such a cost in IMF loans that the country is supposed to default, and then the US then has leverage to gain UN votes, build military bases, take a higher percentage of resources and profits, or completely "own" the country's new leader through a regime change. Therefore, this is what China will be blamed for doing through Western fearmongering.

The pattern is very clear on several such items. The West (especially the US) does something bad, so China must be blamed for something just like it, but worse.

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50 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

From what I have read he was pretty much that way himself—his excellence was in cunnning. During WWII, his son was captured by the Germans and he was given opportunity to ransom him. He declined the offer and the son died in a concentration camp.

I used to be involved in "out of town" adventures, and I told my family that if I was captured and held for ransom, that it was NOT to be paid. Not even a single penny.

We ALL die, and there are NO exceptions ... but you can't let the bad guys win.

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11 hours ago, Arauna said:

Those wonderful young people who tell your son it is now so wonderful in China most probably are afraid to lose their social credit score. ...... because evething is now automatically surveilled in the big cities.

That doesn't explain why so many are very willing to speak out against their government, not just via Twitter where they are partly anonymous, but in China in Chinese by Chinese people doing face-to-face interviews. It's true that there are lot of problems, it's a big country. But the real problems are hardly even related to the issues the West wants to push. It's also true that those pointing out issues are more independent voices, not the official Chinese media, for which the government is the "sponsor" in a way similar to how corporations sponsor private, public and commercial broadcasting in the United States. The government will not allow voices critical of the government to give the TV, radio and Internet news, write the newspapers, or even give public speeches to large crowds.

As far as everything being watched in big cities, there is not nearly as much surveillance in Chinese cities, as is done in the United States cities. (Through government and police surveillance, smart phones, Internet, IOT, toll booths, stoplights, building entrances, etc.) Remember that the United States corporations were racing to the first to be able to roll out 5G on a large scale, and China beat them to it, therefore China's use of it must be demonized.

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

seen your  comments before when you played down the murders under communism

I was probably as surprised as you would be to find out there was no evidence for the mass murders that I had always believed in.

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If i understand  correctly.

Some countries (western) giving you freedom of speech in a such measure to even criticize own government, persons who run the show on many fields (political, economic, religious, social) and situation in country. But in the same time State (administration and private persons) have mechanism "to silent you" in many ways to such measure that in some situations you would like more "to be dead" than in their hands.    

Some countries (not western democracies) suppress  freedom of speech on many issues and are ready to punish almost all or most critics. 

Well, what is better? To speak what you want, but if you go to far in critics, no one would give you guarantee that you will escape "punishment" in democratically way.  Or to be aware of fact that if you go to make verbal crime against particular establishment you will go to prison or loose your head.

But, I am curious to understand; What US, China and other things have to do with those who oppose and critically making opinion or statements about/against WT Society? :)))  

  

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Spin and counterspin, impossible to unravel to all but those with exhausive background knowledge and time. Mr Admin is at his best when he hosts these two titans hashing it out—Arauna and JWI, yet it seems unlikely even these will be able to persuade each other. Each has grabbed hold of the elephant in a different place—thus they argue differing appraisals of the beast. 

In the end, it may simply come down to considering the women. Or at least, that process works as well as any other. Mr. Wilson, for example, observes that:

East coast girls are hip I really dig those styles they wear
And the Southern girls with the way they talk
They knock me out when I'm down there
The Mid-West farmer's daughters really make you feel alright
And the Northern girls with the way they kiss
They keep their boyfriends warm at night

However, Mr. McCartney would beg to differ. His experience leads him to maintain that:

The Ukraine girls really knock me out, they leave the west behind. And Moscow girls make me sing and shout, that Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind

All that really matters in the end is the degree to which they will allow us to live in peace, worship our God, and announce the kingdom.

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10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

As far as everything being watched in big cities, there is not nearly as much surveillance in Chinese citi

That is the only statement that is almost correct - although that was not the subject I was talking about.

Spoke to another Korean couple yesterday who just left China.  They say it is becoming  dangerous. (They all seem to land up in Rep.  Georgia on their way home or to figure out where to go next).

China is changing fast...... and the same social credit score that is there and being improved daily as we speak is destined for America. Our big digital companies have become fascistic and helping the global elite get their tight grip on us plebs.

For 20 years we have had free internet...... but like with all great technology combined with power - it has corrupted absolutely. We are now entering the final phase before Armageddon.  The most oppressive government the world has ever seen is on its way. When they (the global elite - communistic elite together with the super capitalist elite - exercise super control on all mankind and use digital technology and AI to do so.  G5 is dangerous and can also be weaponized - experiments on controlling minds already going on.

Watched another video of a Chinese woman saying what is going on in Chinese prisons.   No group  activities in society allowed, especially with spiritual goals  - your body parts will be utilized by the government.

  They will use super surveillance to keep us all in check.  Soon you will not be able to buy or sell if your "politics" is not of the right brand - like is now being  imported into China.  And by politics, I mean that you will also have to be atheist OR comply with the new world religion and its new values, which includes LGBTQP ..... take note of the P.

If you do not believe this...... then you are naive...... our world will openly be satanic.... it is no longer hidden but openly coming out and only those who are part of the wicked club will have protection....... for a while.

Those who have not chosen the side if jehovah and ready to give up their life for His standards will become part of this craziness to survive...... just like most germans went along with Hitler or most Muslims go along with extremists when they take over a region. Their mode is merely to survive - not have any higher purpose.

 

 

The central communistic party has been stepping up its actions against any popular individual or anyone not playing the CCP game. Like in Russia - a criminal elite has taken over..... and already being duplicated in USA.

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22 hours ago, Arauna said:

Read Daniel 11 from verse 40

What is the “Beautiful Land of verse 41?

What is the “beautiful holy mountain” of verse 45?

There is no land or mountain among the nations that is “beautiful” or “holy” to God, except for His owned “land”, His “special possession”.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:9, 16,17; Acts 7:49; Eph 2:20-22

Our heart is compared to soil.  The  “soil”/heart/land of an anointed one is the dwelling place of God.  Luke 8:11,15; John 14:23; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rom 5:5   

This isn’t about nations in the world.   Dan 11:31,32 speaks of the King of the North (Dan 11:40), desecrating “the temple fortress”, and is the abomination, the “disgusting thing” that causes desolation.  The “temple fortress” is the “holy place” of Matt 24:15. also of 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2  It is God’s Temple in the anointed ones. (1 Cor 3:16,17) That is the only temple fortress that God would concern Himself with.  The abomination causing desolation is the man of lawlessness, (2 Thess 2:3,4) and is the northern army spoken of in Joel 2:20 that rises against the anointed. (Joel 2:32) It is the same locust army of Revelation 9 that emerges from the abyss.  

A nation has invaded My land,
    a mighty army without number  Joel 1:6

Before them fire devours,
    behind them a flame blazes.
Before them the land is like the garden of Eden,
    behind them, a desert waste—
    nothing escapes them.  Joel 2:3

 

All of this, takes place where JWs reside.  The “Gentile” elder body has “trampled”/ removed the holy priesthood, and abolished their “daily sacrifices” of praise. Dan 11:36  Instead, a counterfeit priesthood is on your podium, offering “spiritual sacrifices” on behalf of an organization. (1 Pet 2:5)  Anything coming from the mouth of an anointed one, must be approved by a false prophet/fallen star who “releases” this army to come against the unsealed anointed priests.  Rev 2:10; 8:10,11; 9:1-4; 13:16,17; 16:13,14

Looking into Satan’s world for prophesy fulfillment is exactly what he wants us to do in order to deceive the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”.  Rev 12:1-4   The anointed are Satan’s greatest threat to the loss of his kingdom. China is not.  Russia is not.  Any nation fighting for or against them is not.  But, when the last faithful “living stones” are sealed into the temple, Satan's end is imminent. 1 Cor 15:23-26; Rev 12:7,17  In the meantime, he will take down all whom he can using signs and wonders in the world, (2 Thess 2:9,10) and a “mountainlike organization"/fortress (Dan 11:38) to deceive and distract from his real plan of destroying his adversary, the anointed. Gen 3:15;Rev 20:7-10; Zech 4:7-10

Matt 16:1-3; 24:4,23,24

 

 

For consideration:  "Gentile Times"/"Great Tribulation"/Cleansed Priesthood 

Pearl Doxsey, 4womaninthewilderness blogspot

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      Wt. 14/1/15 - “How did Jehovah become King in 1914, and what were some of the Kingdom’s early accomplishments? The subsequent famines, earthquakes, and pestilences as well as the fulfillment of other Bible prophecies proved CONCLUSIVELY that Jesus Christ had begun to rule in heaven as King of God’s Kingdom in 1914. By enthroning his Son as the Messianic King, Jehovah had, indeed, become King in a new sense!” 
      The SYMBOLIC famines, earthquakes, pestilences are the labor pains that PRECEDE the birth of God’s Kingdom. This is the natural order of birth. Luke 21:8,9; Mark 13:8; Ezek 22:28  
       “Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your ]composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a MESSAGE OR A LETTER AS IF FROM US, TO THE EFFECT THAT THE DAY OF THE LORD HAS COME. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.” 2 Thess 2:1-4
      Watchtower continues: 
      “THEY SPREAD 'DECEPTIVE TEACHINGS,' 'TWISTING'...THE SCRIPTURES TO FIT THEIR OWN IDEAS. (2 Pet. 2:1, 3, 13; 3:16)” 
      Twisting the scriptures, and creating new doctrine such as:
      Wt 02/8/1 - “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions. Hebrews 13:7,17" 
      JWs, go back to the scriptures to find the truth:
      Num 18:7 - “But you and your sons will carry out your priestly responsibilities for everything concerning the altar and for what is inside the veil, and you will do that work. I am giving you the work of the priesthood as a gift, BUT AN UNAUTHORIZED PERSON WHO COMES NEAR THE SANCTUARY WILL BE PUT TO DEATH."
       Who are the Temple sanctuary?  1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 2Chron.13:9; Ezek 22:26;Eze.44:6,7,8,9; 2Thess.2:4; Dan.11:31; Matt.24:15; Rev 11:1,2
      “CLEARLY, APOSTATES DO NOT HAVE OUR BEST INTERESTS AT HEART. FOLLOWING THEM WOULD DIVERT US FROM THE ROAD THAT LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE”. 
      Shepherd the Flock book, page 65 (the previous version) – 
      “Apostasy is a standing away from true worship, a falling away, defection, rebellion.”
      It includes: 
      “Deliberately spreading teachings contrary to bible truth…
      AS TAUGHT BY JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES”
       
       
      Pearl Doxsey, 4womaninthewilderness blogspot
      “The Kingdom—1914?”
      “The Sign of the End”
       
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      Here is the quote from Jehovah's Witnesses calling former members "mentally diseased"


      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  
      Where in the scripture does it say that apostates are mentally diseased? I guess that's just their translation.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      The invasion of the mentally ill professional apostates is repeated again, at a Kingdom Hall in full meeting. Once the prayer is over, an invader gets on the stage and the ushers are forced to lower it. But among the attendees there are more apostates, including the one who is recording the video. They almost have to be forcibly evicted because they are reluctant to leave  while criticizing the organization. They gather at the door while the brothers prevent them from entering again and call the police. The arrival of the police causes some to run away, and the agent takes data from those who bother a private meeting. Let's take note of the scene that will surely be repeated in many  countries.
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      I see more and more stories about this woman Barbara Anderson
      What exactly did she do at Bethel? Does she have an interesting story?
    • By Jack Ryan
      bh chap. 11 pp. 110-112 pars. 12-15 - Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever....student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. What should the teacher do?....suppose that the teacher allows the rebel to show the class how he would solve the problem...he knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, all honest students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class....consider two things that the teacher in our illustration would not do............he would not stop the rebel student from presenting his case.




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