Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"

[Srecko Sostar]

27 minutes ago, Anna said:

When people no longer want to live as Jehovah's Witnesses, for whatever reason, and an opportunity presents itself where they feel justified in leaving, then they will eagerly grab that opportunity. Very often this has nothing to do with any actual "truth" or "facts" but everything to do with that person's attitude and desire to do what they want. With the internet, these opportunities present themselves much more frequently and readily than in the past. There have always been opposers, but now they are finding more of a voice than they ever had before....

This is partially correct, but not for all who left JW church. In videos from ex-JW i heard some of them complaining how they were not been able to celebrate Christmas or birthdays. I don’t go into the theological justification of their demands, but I don’t think it’s something that should be crucial to leaving or staying in the organization.

There are so many other “details, bigger and smaller that should decide someone’s departure. Many things have been discussed at this Forum and, you will agree with me, they go far beyond, outweigh the issue of celebrating birthdays. It is possible that in some people there may be some individual trigger to change the state of feelings about the organization. But that moment when that happens is just a continuation of a process that has been in that individual’s subconscious and consciousness for a long/longer time. It doesn’t happen “overnight”, that decision is not impulsive. 

I observed the children of one mother in the former congregation. Teenagers. As they grew older and reached adulthood, their attitude toward belonging to the JW changed. The eldest sister left JW immediately after coming of age. The younger sisters soon after one by one also left the organization. I guess, I'm actually sure, that they didn't have problems with purely theological dilemmas or what the leadership of the organization was like, but with personal freedoms and pressures from mothers and elders (they were forbidden to associate with their father who was excluded many years ago and I think it was trigger for their decisions).

This example, about issue of (MUST) shunning own dfd father was too much for them. And their reaction was completely  natural and normal. WT JWorg and lawyer in video presented showed double face, showed hypocrisy. And want to look good in front of "secular", "worldly" people. They want to hold Image of Organization. And that "detail" is also "trigger" for some JW people to "come out of her" aka organization.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, Anna said:

Plus, I'm sure you are an inspiration for some of his fictional characters in his books 😄

Is he ever! He is the gift that keeps on giving.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

The last I looked, the Watchtower GB do not purposely oppose Gods will or commands.

It seems, sounds good ... from your perspective. And it is reflection of your "faith" and "trust" in God and GB. I can't and don't want join you in such evaluation of GB work. I want to believe in human sincerity and from that point i am ready to believe how many JW people also not purposely oppose God's will. Nevertheless, their or mine "beliefs" does not nullify reality how people, generally, oppose God's will, purposely or unintentionally. Result of both "motives" is/are ........ bad  consequences. With that consequences are; years or decades of wrong, err doctrines, teachings, directives, deeds, words and emotions. And all that is, religiously said, false worship. Well, purposely or not, false worship IS false worship. And WT printed tons of magazines, books and public talks about it, not showing any "mercy" to those other who not worshiping God in "proper" aka JW way of worship. WT publication criticized and judged not only other religion's doctrines but also behavior of their's members.

When WT Management  in past or today, aka GB+Helpers, speaking how this or that doctrine and interpretation and instruction is "God's thought" or "Jesus's thought" or "biblically grounded" and after they denied it and replaced with "new divine thoughts", what is that? Opposing God? Opposing sound mind? Fooling God? Opposing XY, etc? 

Dr Furuli will need to live with their own past and with their own future. And find something to stay "alive".

Thanks for respond and thoughts.  

 

[Arauna]

13 hours ago, Witness said:

comparing the rules of a club to our

It is a similar situation - where one must adhere to rules.  Unfortunately at secular clubs one usually just gets the rules typed out.  In Jehovah's organization you know what the rules are when you become a JW - there is no excuse.  Even after a mistake one is not shunned unless you show rebelliousness.  

I am a reader of history - I know what Catholic excommunication means....  how can you even compare what is written there to what we do.... like comparing and orange with mars.

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

but I don’t think it’s something that should be crucial

It is not what you think that is important but what Jehovah thinks about idolatry.....  he is a jealous god and does not tolerate paraphernalia of other gods pushed in his face. Do you not read the old testament?  And it was one of the instructions at acts 15:29 which Christians also have to adhere to..... that and abstinence from blood. 

 

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

nullified all his past works.

A very true statement.  How sad to serve so long and in the end to be found wanting.  It can happen to any of us - we can lose our life when we stop to do introspection and look for flaws only outside yourself.

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

I am a reader of history - I know what Catholic excommunication means....  how can you even compare what is written there to what we do.... like comparing and orange with mars.

I know what it means also.  I was raised a Catholic, and while the Watchtower has clamped down with a heavy hand about  disfellowshipping and shunning, the Catholic religion has relaxed its view on excommunication.  

Think how you view me, an apostate, and someone who rejects the organization.  I do not reject God and Christ, but my label "apostasy" is viewed as the worst of the worst of the apostate labels one could receive.  Any JW in my area cannot make eye contact with me, since I am evil....and apparently full of hate.  

I'll borrow a quote from the article I posted, replacing "Watchtower" where needed:

"This means that you are looked upon with the blackest contempt by the "Watchtower", being cursed and damned with the devil and his angels".  Actually, there is a JW on here who has alluded to similar words about myself. 

Just as Gockentin said about the organization, "there is just no other way to succeed",      this would mean everyone on the outside of the organization, is cursed and damned with the devil and his angels.

Another quote:

"This is Cannon law which the "Watchtower hierarchy" seeks to enforce on the pretext that it is God's Law"

So you see, the comparison is not "oranges to mars", but oranges to oranges. 

 

 

  

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @Arauna Depends on your inclination and the subject.  Here on this forum you hold up well because there is only one view spewed by you.. a destructive one.  I think I can make a good case for NOT watching videos against JWs.  You are a good example of it ...... your hate-…... seems to be fueled by watching all these videos against JWs which are spinned and propagandized in a certain way.

I READ news articles and i try my best to read them from different sources. I don't watch videos. I can never understand what they are saying on the videos. As for HATE, Arauna HATE seems to be YOUR favorite word. I would say you have OCD about it.   I love those close to me as i know them well enough to have reason to love them. JWs don't have love, they just pretend. It is so obvious because they would not be able to just switch it off like they do if it was real love. I still haven't seen any true use of scripture, that would say SHUN those that leave the CCJW for the right reasons. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @Anna Very often this has nothing to do with any actual "truth" or "facts" but everything to do with that person's attitude and desire to do what they want.

Do you live in a cave ? Do you not know about the EARTHWIDE CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE in the CCJW ? 

Do you not know that the GB refuse to apologise to the victims of CSA ?  Do you not know that the GB / Lawyers refuse to cooperate with the USA Superior Authorities  ? The GB refuse to hand over that 23 year Database of PAEDOPHILES IN THE USA part of the CCJW. 

And you say it has nothing to do with TRUTH. In fact the GB have nothing to do with TRUTH. 

Then you have the GB spouting about the 'Final part of the Final day, of the Final Days' BUT the Org did all that in the 1960's Watchtower. And the 'Stay Alive till 75'.

Yes the internet makes all this TRUTH available to everyone. So, people that are looking to serve God properly will turn away from the CCJW / Watchtower. Sensible people will keep their eyes on the Org to see when or if God through Christ will clean out the disgusting things in the Org, or if God through Christ will set up a new Org. What true Christian people want to do is serve God properly, hence they leave the CCJW.   Others, that use the Org as a social club, are too frightened to leave, because they will lose all of their 'friends' 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @Anna Do you really think that? I think you are completely wrong and are confusing this forum with a congregation. Nobody wants anybody to get thrown out of here.

Well someone had John Butler 'thrown out of here' that's for sure, and yes I think Tom wants me thrown out of here.  

This forum is like a congregation, run by elders, and probably used by the GB helpers as feedback.  JWI could be working for both sides , double spy. 

[JW Insider]

19 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Well someone had John Butler 'thrown out of here' that's for sure, and yes I think Tom wants me thrown out of here.

All that repetition by JB about how the GB could be "taken out" either by God directly or through the hands of humans (and that it would happen sooner or later) was probably interpreted by some here as a semi-veiled threat. I remember exactly what you said at the time, and never took it as all that threatening. But someone did. Perhaps more than one person. And the action taken in removing JB was probably made at an admin level, not by any of those who might volunteer as moderators. I would not have thought you should be kicked out, but a website owner probably could face some kind of legal scrutiny if someone carried through on a threat, and they had let such talk go on.

Personally, I don't want anyone thrown out of here. There are many things I don't like about the content of several of your posts, but I'm sure there are things you don't like about mine, too. I can't believe all those "laughing" emojis I get from you are given because you think I am saying something comedic, especially when it's little more than a scripture quote that you appear to be laughing at.

[Arauna]

20 hours ago, Witness said:

You must play golf, since I've heard this example from you before.

It is a good example though..... I was making a point

6 hours ago, Witness said:

"apostasy" is viewed as the worst of the worst

Is that not viewed as such in the bible?  But that does not make you rethink your situation?  I feel for you but you are doing it to yourself by your stubborn attitude.  Instead you prefer to always rale against the organization that taught you the truth about the ransom sacrifice and god's name.  Without them you would not have been in the privileged position you were in.  But like an unthankful dog you still bite the hand that fed you.  Think what you are doing to yourself. You seem to be all over the place! All it take is a little humility!  There were anointed in first century that were shunned and came back!

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Do you not know that the GB refuse to apologise to the victim

I am sure if they saw these persons in private they would definitely apologize (even though they personally were not the perpetrators)…… but you obviously do not understand the implications of legally apologizing..... that is totally a different matter. 

We JWs do NOT condone pedophilia ….or any form of porneia…... so why should we apologize in court or public for something we as an organization we do not condone?  The organization has sinning individuals in it and in this world the entire system is imperfect - and to top this off one cannot expect 100% perfect way of dealing with every case.  Expecting this would expect perfection, perfect judgment and seeing into everyone's heart!  Ask your self - how would I have done if I had to judge this matter.  Bring me any organization that has dealt with pedophilia perfectly a 100 percent of the time!  Legal organizations cannot even do it - and they have child psychologists top advisors - the lot!  This is why the Australian government had the inquiry in the first place because there were gaps in the laws they needed to close up!  

I think I know more than most about the Jews, the Muslims and some other religious denominations where pedophilia and child suffering is much worse than people can ever dream it to be...… but yet these ignorant people do not expect perfect case handling from them - if a case ever comes to the fore.... lol - because people are too afraid of the religious leaders.  This is like expecting a fools dream in the real world. But they expect 100% perfect case handling from JWs.  

Pedophilia is everywhere  is very prevalent an even covered up in courts of law (Epstein, gangs in UK). There is a case that went on for several years in Brooklyn USA in the ultra orthodox Jewish community. A Jewish school teacher fled to Israel (the school paid her flight because her husband was a Rabbi) and because she was prominent the accusers could not get her extradited for several years from Israel - the government and Rabbis covered it up in Israel.....   Nothing much in newspapers.  Not to speak of UK where the court system covers up big-time.  So why should we apologize for not handling every case that comes up with perfection..? When courts themselves find it hard to find enough evidence to convict?   DO you live under a rock or something when you expect 100 percent people in JWs to never have a secret sinner? …. And when we do get enough proof and shun a sinner then then you are the first guys to criticize this? Where is the sympathy for the shunned person you say?   This kind of double speak or double tongue is often found in those who do not understand both sides of this issue. 

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Yes the internet makes all this TRUTH available to everyone

Yes - those are the very ones who have been disciplined by JW and turned to defaming.... but they do not tell the public that they were sinning or in which capacity.... 

One question:  when are you going to get ready for the end?  You think a world-wide lockdown is important? … similar to Jerusalem when the Romans came and surrounded the city the first time, you do not think it is significant at all?  Putin himself is now president for life... and what did he do this week?  started putting journalists in jail.  He has a port in Syria now and now he is expanding into Africa working with Libya - to get access to the port.   So what must all happen for you to realize the world is a little deeper in the cesspit than we realize.

 

 

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

s that not viewed as such in the bible?  But that does not make you rethink your situation?  I feel for you but you are doing it to yourself by your stubborn attitude.  Instead you prefer to always rale against the organization that taught you the truth about the ransom sacrifice and god's name.  Without them you would not have been in the privileged position you were in.  But like an unthankful dog you still bite the hand that fed you.  Think what you are doing to yourself. You seem to be all over the place! All it take is a little humility!  There were anointed in first century that were shunned and came back!

"that taught you the truth about the ransom sacrifice and god's name"  No, they didn't.  I was not lacking in religion before I became a JW.  I was well aware of why Jesus came to earth, and am even more keen to understanding that since leaving the WT, as well as the true role of the anointed.  And absolutely no, they have not taught me "god's name".  Through research that people all over the earth can tap into, they can find that the name "Jehovah" has been existence for a long time. (400 years or so)  You can thank the Catholics for that.  However, saying that name means nothing.  Learning to know God is the beginning of understand His true name.  I am finally on that path, without the need to please men who desire to rule over every JW - including God's holy priesthood.  

Arauna, I have no desire to return to the organization/idol.   I do not regret being labeled an apostate, because it is an empty word.  I realize I had actually turned away from Jesus and the Father by participating in doctrines  - a "different gospel" according to men while in the organization.    For that transgression against my only Rock, I have repented.  I am wondering how comparing doctrine of two similar religions, your's and the Catholic Church, using myself as an example regarding excommunication and disfellowshipping, turned into my being an "unthankful dog".  You seem to be all over the place! 

"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ."  Gal 1:6-12

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

I was not lacking in religion before I became a JW.  I was well aware of why Jesus came to earth

OK dear, I am done.  Jesus put his SOUL in death.  That is the crux of the ransom sacrifice.  That guarantees our resurrection because Christ was really dead (body, soul, breath - did not exist any longer) and he was resurrected by his father...…the life-giver........that TRUTH very few people on earth understand because churches do not teach this. JWs teach this. That is what brought me to the truth - the fact that Jesus put his soul in death.  If you do not get that, understand this fundamental truth, then you never were a good witness in the first place (one that understood everything about the ransom) and impossible to be anointed.  You do  not even understand the ransom sacrifice properly - so Jehovah can forgive you for all that and even your rebellion.  Jews are starting to wake up about the ransom.... Some have discovered Isaiah 53 the last verses.... which uses the word SOUL to indicate that Jesus was prophesied to die.

Either you make a decision to study again and get this straight or go on playing the victim in the world out there and teach your disciples falsehoods about Jesus death. If you are not humble enough you will NOT do this and you will have to be accountable for that in front of Jehovah.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

"that taught you the truth about the ransom sacrifice and god's name" 

Yes - the JWs teach the TRUTH about the ransom sacrifice  - if you do not understand this..... then I suspect there is a lot more you do not understand.  I feel sad for you.  YOU will have to put your pride in your pocket and beg Jehovah's forgiveness.