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[Anna]

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

10 hours ago, Anna said:

He had a script, and that script was obviously vetted by the GB

Do you know this?

No, I don't know this, but logic tells me this is so. Not only that, but G. Jackson said as much in his ARC interview. In any case, your example is not really relevant, I don't think. There is a big difference in someone giving a part at a convention, and someone giving a talk on video at HQ that will be "immortalized forever" . I am not sure when you gave your parts, but I know that in the past there was much more leeway in how brothers handled talks. This is why Charles Sinutko was able to deliver that infamous talk which included the slogan "stay alive till 75" . OK, I know you probably gave talks long after that, but still, I do know for a fact that things have become a lot stricter and brothers are supposed to stick to the very detailed outline. This is confirmed to me when I watch the convention videos (sent to us because of my mother in law who is housebound) the talks are practically identical to the ones I heard at our convention, with perhaps very minor differences, mainly pertaining to experiences. I think it makes practical sense that the GB would look over a script/detailed outline before the video is shot, rather than after. And even if they didn't do that, they would see the video before it was broadcast on the website. The fact that it is broadcast shows the GB approved it. As G. Jackson said, they approve everything before it gets printed or broadcast.

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

10 hours ago, Anna said:

they do not want to appear like they are praising themselves, they leave that up to the helpers or someone else

Again, do you know this? Or is it just a common sense deduction, an application of the scripture that it is better when someone else’s lips praises you, and not your own—

Yes, pretty much..

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

absent any woo factor—a woo factor that Brother Glock may or may not have imputed.

It is true, he may or may not have imputed this. I guess it's left to individual interpretation which leads to what you say next:

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

 the term ‘woo’ is a derisive term of the atheist/skeptics, as so much from that quarter is. It refers to how the intelligent people run past the dummies something the latter can’t understand, and so they attribute it to the supernatural, as in exclaiming like gullible clowns, “Woo-woo!” But sometimes they just kid themselves in their supposed enlightened superiority,

 

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

So Srecko thinks he has “won” with the admission that the Covid update is just good human advice? He thinks that it proves his case somehow—to win an admission that the GB is not drawing on woo? I never thought that they were in this instance. Nor, I doubt did many. Nor, as likely as not, did Brother Glock. 

 Here I am not so sure.......saying that the GB advice is proof of God's backing very much hovers on the borders of the "woo" factor. As if for example the catholic church did something right, are we supposed to think this is proof they have God's backing? By the same token we should.  (JWI mentioned something along similar lines).

 

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There is a public talk on ‘making sound decisions’ that recognizes that it is often not so crucial that you have made this or that decision, but that you follow through on whatever one you do. This the greater world is unable to do. It is the paralysis of everyone challenging everyone else that collectively delivers the verdict, as Cheadle puts it, that “we’re failing” the crisis.

Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t failing it, and it is because of completely human factors that they enjoy and the greater world doesn’t. Witnesses have the ability to yield. They don’t insist on their own way. They do not have to “question authority” on every piddly little thing. They trust leadership. They see that the direction given obviously has their interests at heart, and that it is not too onerous—it allows for individual family headship, it allows that the circumstances of one family will not be that of another, and doesn’t try to tell them all what to do, even as it sets a greater overall theme of caution. In contrasts the direction of some human leaders range from draconian to complete laissez faire.

I completely agree with you. Just today I read this quote: "Basically, we're seeing what happened in New York back in March, except it's happening in multiple metropolitan areas of the country," said Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and public health professor at George Washington University. And we don't have the political will and the public willingness to impose the shutdowns as we did back in March." 

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Witnesses have the ability to yield. They don’t insist on their own way. They do not have to “question authority” on every piddly little thing. They trust leadership. They see that the direction given obviously has their interests at heart, and that it is not too onerous—it allows for individual family headship, it allows that the circumstances of one family will not be that of another, and doesn’t try to tell them all what to do,

And these are the kind of people that will be allowed to be subjects of God's kingdom, because this is the only way it would work. This is what my very astute Bible student once discerned. I was impressed.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

I completely agree with you. Just today I read this quote: "Basically, we're seeing what happened in New York back in March, except it's happening in multiple metropolitan areas of the country," said Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and public health professor at George Washington University. And we don't have the political will and the public willingness to impose the shutdowns as we did back in March." 

As i understand some comments from few of you, you say how GB made and making Independent decisions on Covid 19 and directs how JW members will behave in their spiritual activity, no matter what secular authorities say. If world leaders don't have the political will and the public willingness to impose the shutdowns as we did back in March, do you suggest or give idea how JW will stay in "lock-down" ie  not have public meetings, conventions, door to door or street service etc? Will GB not join "relaxed measures"? Or do you think how they think that is safer for members to "stay at home"?  

[Anna]

17 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

do you suggest or give idea how JW will stay in "lock-down" ie  not have public meetings, conventions, door to door or street service etc? Will GB not join "relaxed measures

It appears that the GB will not join in "relaxed measures". This is because as he said; they value life more than money and they would rather be over cautious than too casual. So no meetings of field service for a while yet. Also conventions will not be held in 2021. They require preparations a year in advance. However, what each individual family does is their choice. Personally, I feel it is very wise to not relax protective measures. Especially not here in the USA. Cases of covid are on the rise again. Each countries' situation differs though, and this was acknowledged by the brother. So it may happen that resuming meetings will be based on countries. 

[Arauna]

4 hours ago, Anna said:

for example the catholic church did something right,

They happen to do everything wrong at present.  There is a split in the Catholic church due to the shenanigan's of the Pope which one  just cannot make up.  He has gone all out backing the UN Agenda 21 … so much so that he brought Amazon Indians and their idols into the Vatican... had them calling up their spirits with their dancing around their idols, the authentic voo-doo woo-factor.   All the pope's meetings have included climate change and UN agenda 21 issues.  Furthermore, they were going to sign a deal with Muslims and Jewish leaders to affirm there is only one God for the entire planet (Christ written out of it) in May but due to Corona it was postponed to October. Corona slowed this down somewhat. 

The GBs caution and respect for life  tells me they are working with Jehovah's spirit.  It reminds me of the caution Jesus had when he realized the time is nigh for him to be killed and he stayed out of reach of the Pharisees because he knew he had to die on Nisan 14. They see the signs of the end coming closer and JWs cannot get too much public attention now until the right time. We just do business as usual with a low profile (Except for the attention which apostates so tenaciously bestow upon us and countries like Russia which persecute us now with extraordinary zeal - the king from the north).

The harlot has been riding the political beast throughout the ages but I think the Christian part of the harlot will soon expose themselves as the man of lawlessness to even a greater extent.... clear for those with righteous hearts to discern.  I am hoping that many people will open their hearts and we will have more work than ever before.  It pains me to think that so many people will suffer the terrible food shortages, premature death, as they see all the old dependable human institutions crumble.

These riots are intended to break down all old culture and institutions (a revolution). It is all over the world and backed by super-rich money that has been flowing in from Qatar, china, and  "foundations"  such as the Open society, just to name one. 

The UN (or organization like it) will bring in the new digital money system after the financial reset has been completed and then they will start to totally implement Agenda 21. It will have to go to the point where they can call peace and security and turn against the harlot- their bedfellow. This beast that will turn against the harlot is the red beast that is the ' image' of the seven headed beast.

I am sure our organization will try to keep abreast of the news and make cautious decisions in a discreet way. They will do it to the best of their ability and pray to Jehovah earnestly for help to guide them. Why would Jehovah give a snake instead of a fish? ...when they have been trying to preach the word and fulfill his commission? Jehovah does not forget acts of loyalty. He will also remember that they are flesh.  Ps 103 and will not look for ways to find fault.... because there are faults.

I am sure that all those who now die prematurely from hunger, sickness etc. will go to sheol for a possible resurrection. Those who remain until the very end stubborn like Pharoah, and oppose the incoming kingdom by finally attacking Jah's people, will fully deserve the judgment coming upon them. No bunker will save them. Which flesh will stand in the Day of Jehovah?  Those who have the mark of the Christian personality, call on the name of Jehovah and are found in peace with Jehovah.  

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Arauna " Which flesh will stand in the Day of Jehovah?  Those who have the mark of the Christian personality, call on the name of Jehovah and are found in peace with Jehovah. "

BUT, does this mean being baptised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses ?

The CCJW org says a person MUST be as above. 

If so, then the CCJW has to be much cleaner than it is now. And of course it needs True Anointed ones to lead it. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote @Anna Here I am not so sure.......saying that the GB advice is proof of God's backing very much hovers on the borders of the "woo" factor. As if for example the catholic church did something right, are we supposed to think this is proof they have God's backing? By the same token we should.  (JWI mentioned something along similar lines).

It's nice to see some balance Anna. To some extent the GB are running a massive business and trying to look after its interests. So they use common sense in some things. It does not take God's guidance to look outside and see rain then suggest to your friend that they wear a raincoat and use an umbrella. Similarly with Covid-19. There is enough information and proof of consequences for the GB to be able to make a sensible decision about it without God's guidance.  So for a GB helper to say it is proof of God's guidance or backing, is not sensible. And of course it gives ammo to those in opposition.

Jesus said something like " Even though you are wicked, which one of you would give your son a stone, if he asked for a fish."   What I'm saying is, people in the world also look after their families and do what is best for them, but it does not show God is guiding them. I think those in a position of responsibility in the CCJW should be more careful with their words. 

 

 

[Witness]

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

They happen to do everything wrong at present.  There is a split in the Catholic church due to the shenanigan's of the Pope which one  just cannot make up.  He has gone all out backing the UN Agenda 21 … so much so that he brought Amazon Indians and their idols into the Vatican... had them calling up their spirits with their dancing around their idols, the authentic voo-doo woo-factor.

As it is said, the apple does not fall far from the tree.  

 

¹⁶ And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; ¹⁷ but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”  Gen 2:16,17

 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; ³ but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

⁴ Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. ⁵ For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Gen 3:2-5 

“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.”  Matt 12:33

“You (the Pharisees) are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.”  John 8:44

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?   ⁰ And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Matt 3:7-10

"Brood" - γέννημα génnēma, ghen'-nay-mah; from G1080; offspring; by analogy, produce (literally or figuratively):—fruit, generation.

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

I am sure our organization will try to keep abreast of the news and make cautious decisions in a discreet way. They will do it to the best of their ability and pray to Jehovah earnestly for help to guide them. Why would Jehovah give a snake instead of a fish? ...when they have been trying to preach the word and fulfill his commission? Jehovah does not forget acts of loyalty. He will also remember that they are flesh. 

 

"There is a generation—oh, how lofty are their eyes!
And their eyelids are lifted up.
¹⁴ There is a generation whose teeth are like swords,
And whose fangs are like knives,
To devour the poor from off the earth,
And the needy from among men."  Prov 30:13,14

"They have corrupted themselves;
They are not His children,
Because of their blemish:
A perverse and crooked generation."  Deut 32:5

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

The harlot has been riding the political beast throughout the ages but I think the Christian part of the harlot will soon expose themselves as the man of lawlessness to even a greater extent.... clear for those with righteous hearts to discern. 

Righteous hearts can discern that the "man of lawlessness" "sits" - RULES - over the Temple of God, just as the scriptures indicate.  The Temple/dwelling of God, is the anointed, and only the anointed.  2 Thess 2:3,4; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22.

I wish you and all JWs weren't so blind. 

"Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. "

Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders!"  Wt 02/8/1

"Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 

6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation."

When we verbally challenge someone, we create a "war" of words.  God does not excuse anyone who challenges His appointment to serve as priests. We have the example of the outcome of Korah.

 The elder body has been given wicked authority by a wicked slave, (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:11,13) to rule and judge people from all nations, languages and "tribes". (Rev 13:15) It is your false priesthood that you and all JWs listen to, instead of the anointed priesthood of God.

 

 

 

 

 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

every tree of the garden

Apologies, it seems my contributions always seems to trigger you into some very over the top emotional response and a hate barrage.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

whose teeth are like swords,

Unfortunately, your words are like swords but do not make much sense.

[Witness]

26 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Apologies, it seems my contributions always seems to trigger you into some very over the top emotional response and a hate barrage.

No hate is ever intended, only scriptural truth.

26 minutes ago, Arauna said:

 

Unfortunately, your words are like swords but do not make much sense.

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

"There is a generation—oh, how lofty are their eyes!
And their eyelids are lifted up.
¹⁴ There is a generation whose teeth are like swords,
And whose fangs are like knives,
To devour the poor from off the earth,
And the needy from among men."  Prov 30:13,14

Here is an example:

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Rather than challenge their authority,

God's anointed have every right to challenge the authority of men not part of the Body of Christ who demand to rule over them.  Rom 14:4  No one has the authority to tell God's anointed priesthood that they must not bond together as one Body.  This defies scripture.  1 Cor 12.

Another most recent example is the WT refusing to take part in the ARC Redress Scheme.  While contemplating that thought, read Prov 30:13,14 once again.

 

 

  

 

[Witness]

1 minute ago, Witness said:

This defies scripture.  1 Cor 12.

Will you argue with the Word of God?  

[Anna]

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

The GBs caution and respect for life  tells me they are working with Jehovah's spirit. 

Yes, I thoroughly agree with that statement (therefore I do not need to be assured this is proof of Jehovahs backing, in this situation (covid)) and I said this in one of my posts above.  My use of the Catholic church was just an example. Probably a bad one. But my point was that just because someone does something right, is it proof of Jehovah's backing? And what if we do something that turns out to be wrong advice, as the GB has admitted (because they are fallible and can err) does that mean this is proof they do not have Jehovah's backing? I think it was just a really bad choice of words....and a little presumptuous. And was it really necessary for him to say it? Something like this surely would have been more appropriate and modest: "the advice that the GB are giving is proof that they really apply the scriptures in their life and are allowing the holy spirit to lead them" and he could have even added "we will do well to immitate them". But saying this is proof of God's backing is almost painfully insecure. Like we need to be assured because some are doubting. But do not actions speak louder than words? Should it not be left up to others to make that deduction, (like you and I did) rather than say it about themselves? And they did say it about themselves, because as I have already commented to Tom, everything that is published first gets approved (by the GB).

[TrueTomHarley]

The reason that the GB can say ‘follow the direction of secular authority’ and still have that count as spiritual guidance is that (with some exaggeration) JWs can do it, and non-believers cannot.

Following the guidance entails putting up with delayed gratification. Those within the Christian congregation are better at doing that than those without. It entails the willingness to obey. Those within the Christian congregation are better at doing that than those without. It entails the ability to put love of neighbor above self-interest. Those within the Christian congregation are better at doing that than those without. “Do we really need to have a hashtag, #DontKillGrandma? said the CBS medical doctor recently. Yes—you do, if present trends are anything to go by. Witnesses don’t, but you do. This “proves” that the Witness organization has done well imparting Bible principles into its members, since there are plenty of churches today deemed to be spreaders of the virus. 

I even told the CultExpert, the one with the hashtag #FreedomOfMind, that my people were, by and large, more responsible than his. You don’t think that some will use their “freedom of mind” to tell the government what it can do with its regulations? 

Vic Vomodog called on me the other day, trying once again to entice me into his sinister cause. I protested that he was wearing no mask, but he laughed at me! I told him how foolhardy he was, but he said that the danger is past—our state in America is one in which the rates peaked long ago, and are in steady decline. I pleaded with him, yet he waved me down with hand gestures, just like opposers do in the dramas. However, as he stepped onto the public sidewalk, a truck loaded with emergency Covid 19 supplies bound for Texas jumped the curb and flattened him! And I can’t even visit him in the hospital—they’re not permitting that yet.