Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

So it's no so much that God is giving separate info to GB, anyone has access to the Bible, the same info, but it's more like the GB are paying attention to it and applying it, and urging us to do the same because many in the world are not.

As described previously in the Newsroom section of jw.org, the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses was monitoring the situation and providing direction to all congregations in harmony with the recommendations from authorities.- https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=covid+19

Source of knowledge and direction is in "worldly" institutions, wisdom and common sense, and it is funny to put this on "religious and spiritual level" as GB Helper was done by conclusion: .... is just another proof that Jehovah is with the Governing Body."

That GB Helper, for example, said: "GB recommended to all brothers and sister; Drink Aloe Vera 10 times a day and you will be cured and will not be ill from Covid 19 because we and HS found that is best for all of us.", .... that would be another proof who is with GB. According to w13 11/15 20, GB instructions have to be "unique" and "may not appear practical from a human standpoint".  :)) and that would give "proof" to JW's how JHVH "backing" GB in their decisions.

:))) little fun and irony 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Yes, the leaders of the CCJW seem to be an embarrassment to the basic JW boots on the ground. 

[Witness]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

That GB Helper, for example, said: "GB recommended to all brothers and sister; Drink Aloe Vera 10 times a day and you will be cured and will not be ill from Covid 19 because we and HS found that is best for all of us.", .... that would be another proof who is with GB. According to w13 11/15 20, GB instructions have to be "unique" and "may not appear practical from a human standpoint".  :)) and that would give "proof" to JW's how JHVH "backing" GB in their decisions.

:))) little fun and irony 

I believe there is more sadness about this thought, than humor.  You are not far off at all in your harmless illustration, and the reaction that would come from it, since it reminded me of the question posed on facebook at the time the W 13/11/15 was studied.  You may remember this:

Question:  "If you were to go to the Kingdom Hall next Sunday and listen to a letter from the Governing Body instructing ALL in attendance to swallow an unknown pill, would you obey without hesitation, keeping the admonition from today's Watchtower in mind?  Yes or No?

Here's one frightening answer:  "With faith, I will take it.  Even if I perish, jehovah will remember me".

Obviously, not all JWs would feel this way.  But, they cooperate with an organization that has convinced thousands to submit to any direction by the Governing Body.  Surely, this alone would make the more sensible ones to sit up and take notice of the manipulative power this organization is capable of.  

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping."  2 Pet 2:1-3

Jesus Christ's headship is barely referred to by the GB.  Yes, they have denied "who bought them". 2 Pet 3:17; Rev 8:10,11; (John 7:38) 

Millions of people are following uninspired men, and an organization whose teachings are laced with deceit and pitfalls.  In Mr. Gockentin's presentation, he stated, "protect yourself from lies". 

This is exactly what those who leave the organization are doing - protecting themselves from an outlandish, devilish lie.  2 Thess 2:9-12   

Here is the article - 

https://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/would-you-take-the-pill-a-simple-facebook-test-has-shocking-results

 

Wormwood/The False Prophet/Armageddon - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/12/wormwood-armageddon-false-prophet.html

 

 

 

 

"

 

 

[Witness]

13 minutes ago, Witness said:

Surely, this alone would make the more sensible ones to sit up and take notice of the manipulative power this organization is capable of.  

"Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not become partners with them; 8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), 10 and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. "  Eph 5:6-11

[Anna]

On 7/7/2020 at 11:26 PM, JW Insider said:

I fear I might have been wrong about the intended un-scary use of the Covid19 scenario

Funny you should say that because after listening to the video for the 3rd time (!)(we had it as our local needs item on Tuesday) I was beginning to see why you used that explanation, and it started to make sense to me. I don't think you were wrong.

On 7/7/2020 at 11:26 PM, JW Insider said:

I'm sure the GB themselves would be much more careful about their wording so that it doesn't come across as manipulative. He surely means well, but probably doesn't realize what we would think of any other organization for trying to create "proof" out of such types of reasoning.

The thing is, obviously br. Glockentin didn't just get up there and speak off the cuff. He had a script, and that script was obviously vetted by the GB. The point is, when members of the GB speak, they do not want to appear like they are praising themselves, they leave that up to the helpers or someone else (I thought it was funny when some months ago one of the GB read out a private letter addressed to them, where Br. Christensen is thanking them and praising them)

Br. Glockentin's talk reminds me of a situation in the past where the GB begun to be worried they might be losing the trust of the flock. I think you know which period I am talking about. 

 

Just as a side point;  I thought the talk had an irrelevant title, "do not lie" yet it had nothing to do with counsel about how we should avoid lying to oneanother but everything to do with how others lie, and how we should avoid them....

[JW Insider]

20 minutes ago, Anna said:

Funny you should say that because after listening to the video for the 3rd time (!)(we had it as our local needs item on Tuesday) I was beginning to see why you used that explanation, and it started to make sense to me. I don't think you were wrong.

I haven't really changed my mind on the original position either, but if more Glockentin-style utilization appears, I will think its use has evolved. NOT necessarily that it was the original intention. I fear that we are discussing a very narrow "improper" usage of the topic among a much larger and obvious "proper" usage of the example. If I don't respond fully, it's because I think some will just become more confused in thinking that this is a complete rejection of the usefulness of the excellent counsel and leadership of the GB and their response over Covid-19.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

He had a script, and that script was obviously vetted by the GB

Do you know this?

It may well be, and yet when I gave parts at the District Convention, nobody vetted my talk beforehand. They did vet whatever demonstration I might have had, and I did speak from a supplied outline, but nobody vetted beforehand just what I would say in the talk itself.

1 hour ago, Anna said:

they do not want to appear like they are praising themselves, they leave that up to the helpers or someone else

Again, do you know this? Or is it just a common sense deduction, an application of the scripture that it is better when someone else’s lips praises you, and not your own—like when that elder I used to work with who went apostate, and he used to assert facts of history at the door, and if he was called out as to how he knew that, he would say, “Because I’m an historian.” Finally I told him to knock it off—he was not an historian, he was a history buff. A historian is when other people recognize your credentials, not just you 

I almost had a heart attack when I saw that Srecko and I had both upvoted a recent post of yours. How did that happen? I asked myself in alarm. But then I saw that there was indeed common ground to agree upon. It is just that he took away an unjustified conclusion. He pumped his fist with a simultaneous high-five at your mention that the GB Covid update is just good sound human advice, and is absent any woo factor—a woo factor that Brother Glock may or may not have imputed. But Srecko chalked up too soon his victory. At most he should have flopped a limp fist with a simultaneous high-two.

BTW, the term ‘woo’ is a derisive term of the atheist/skeptics, as so much from that quarter is. It refers to how the intelligent people run past the dummies something the latter can’t understand, and so they attribute it to the supernatural, as in exclaiming like gullible clowns, “Woo-woo!” But sometimes they just kid themselves in their supposed enlightened superiority, as Srecko does here—just like the intrepid explorer did when he suddenly found himself surrounded by primitive cannibals! He pulled a lighter from his pocket, flicked, and a low flame emerged. The astonished natives gasped ‘Woo! Woo!’ and fell back. “MAGIC!!” the explorer said in a deep voice. “It must be,” the chief said. “That’s the first time we’ve ever seen one light on the first try!”

So Srecko thinks he has “won” with the admission that the Covid update is just good human advice? He thinks that it proves his case somehow—to win an admission that the GB is not drawing on woo? I never thought that they were in this instance. Nor, I doubt did many. Nor, as likely as not, did Brother Glock. 

Here is a statement from Harry Cheadle, in NewRepublic.com: “The current moment [of responding to Covid 19] is demonstrating just how far away we are from being able to come together to solve a planetary crisis. The pandemic is a test, and we’re failing it.” This is true because nobody agrees on anything. Propose a course, and find yourself lambasted by a faction advocating the opposite course. The Governing Body is the only entity that can issue an update of Covid 19 without my saying, “What is their real motive here?” 

There is a public talk on ‘making sound decisions’ that recognizes that it is often not so crucial that you have made this or that decision, but that you follow through on whatever one you do. This the greater world is unable to do. It is the paralysis of everyone challenging everyone else that collectively delivers the verdict, as Cheadle puts it, that “we’re failing” the crisis.

Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t failing it, and it is because of completely human factors that they enjoy and the greater world doesn’t. Witnesses have the ability to yield. They don’t insist on their own way. They do not have to “question authority” on every piddly little thing. They trust leadership. They see that the direction given obviously has their interests at heart, and that it is not too onerous—it allows for individual family headship, it allows that the circumstances of one family will not be that of another, and doesn’t try to tell them all what to do, even as it sets a greater overall theme of caution. In contrasts the direction of some human leaders range from draconian to complete laissez faire.

“Well, that’s just good sound thinking,” Srecko would say, “based upon Bible verses that show good sound thinking. We could have done that.” But the fact is that you didn’t. And in fact, you can’t—because you have a societal inability to agree, a societal inability to compromise, and a societal inability to endure delayed gratification. Return to the fold, and you will find it again, but it’s not to be found in the greater world that you have chosen

In fact, I have no problem if Brother Glock does think that a woo factor is at work, nor right would I ever rule out that there might be—it is just that you can’t “prove” it in the scientific sense. But the fact is, you can discard all the woo, and still have the greater argument. You still have Srecko swimming in a chaotic cesspool of argument, indecision, and waffling. You still have him, like an insane Jeremiah, at the bottom of a miry cistern, trying to persuade Ebed-Melech to come down and join him. You still have him trying to sell you the bill of goods that your life would improve if you would just step over to the morass that is his.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

Just as a side point;  I thought the talk had an irrelevant title, "do not lie" yet it had nothing to do with counsel about how we should avoid lying to oneanother but everything to do with how others lie, and how we should avoid them....

As i understand title of his speech was, "Protect yourself from lies". In JW world, lies are, exists only outside "spiritual borders". Well JW members are safe, they just need not to open TV or surfing web, and all "truths" will stay safe and sound. :))

51 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Here is a statement from Harry Cheadle, in NewRepublic.com: “The current moment [of responding to Covid 19] is demonstrating just how far away we are from being able to come together to solve a planetary crisis. The pandemic is a test, and we’re failing it.”

Again:  As described previously in the Newsroom section of jw.org, the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses was monitoring the situation and providing direction to all congregations in harmony with the recommendations from authorities.- https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=covid+19

This means, if world leaders failed in "planetary crisis", than GB failed with them too. :)) Nothing about motives. GB made simple copy paste of information about pandemic from secular sources and with or without some own colors forward instructions. 

59 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Witnesses have the ability to yield. They don’t insist on their own way. They do not have to “question authority” on every piddly little thing. They trust leadership.

Yes, GB leaders put in question ARC and Australian Government call for cooperation only. Or Courts in US by refusing product documents. Or victims of CSA. Or, own past doctrines they put in question too. Many other things they do not put in question.

JW members, they not put in question how trustful GB are, and they not put donation money in question, selling KH is not reason to question ..., 

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I saw that Srecko

So many Sreckos in a single comment from you. Woo factor at work? :))

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Oh dear, once again Tom has nothing to say but writes a lot.

And I see he isn't  knocking me this time. This time it is Srecko he is putting down. But in fact Srecko is right, not Tom. 

Such a shame that Tom and Arauna are blinded by the GB. What will they do when those GB are no longer there ? 

[Arauna]

On 7/8/2020 at 2:50 PM, 4Jah2me said:

No one is saying that the GB cannot get anything right,

I have never seen you give them  credit - so yes, according the hate-gang members they can do nothing right.

Always long stories on how controlling and misleading the GB are etc. 

There is so much false news stories out there and so many hateful apostates which are deceitful with the spin they put on news, I would also warn young people to stay away from lies. When learning English - one only needs to study good English.  You will recognize bad English immediately if one has learnt good English.  One does not need to study bad English to recognize bad English.  Similarly, one need not go and find out what apostates have to say. Just study the bible and you will immediately recognize what is kind and righteous - one need not have apostates teaching you.... Like I do here on this forum.  I recognize hate and its deceptive speech the minute I see it.

Another point: If there is a  news flash tomorrow issued by GB that JWs can now take blood,  or we can now use guns, or vote, - do you really think JWs will just blindly follow?  Or will they recognize it as a falsehood? They will immediately think someone has taken over the GB..... I would wager you that most JWs would recognize it as the work of Satan….  WHY?  because all of us have been trained in the word of Jehovah.... not the word of the GB.

 

[Arauna]

9 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

What will they do when those GB are no longer there ? 

Soon the GB may not be here.... just before Armageddon. Read my last paragraph on top.  I do not need the GB to know what is right and stand up for worship of Jehovah. I am grateful for the education they give all of us now but I need to grow to maturity on my own...like most JWs. True, some do not do due diligence and drop out or succumb to immorality, etc.... but that is their own fault.  

[Anna]

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I fear that we are discussing a very narrow "improper" usage of the topic among a much larger and obvious "proper" usage of the example. If I don't respond fully, it's because I think some will just become more confused in thinking that this is a complete rejection of the usefulness of the excellent counsel and leadership of the GB and their response over Covid-19.

Yes, I understand. Sometimes I feel like I have unnecessarily dissected some things, and it may appear that I am being overly critical, but I am just trying to be fair, and look at things from all angles(I know you do the same). I do think the GB are giving excellent counsel. Whether this is because of some "woo" factor, as Tom calls it, or whether it's just common sense is immaterial really. It's the results that matter in the long run.