Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

Peer pressure made them kill others... against their natural instinct.

I like how at the annual meeting, Mark Sanderson examined Hebrews 2:15, of how “through [Jesus’] death [God] might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil, and that he might set free all those who were held in slavery all their lives by their fear of death.”

He then spoke of the Nuremberg trials, in which various Nazis who had committed unspeakable atrocities were asked the simple question, “How could you do those terrible things?” “What did they say?” he asked, and then related the answer they had given: “We had no choice. If we didn’t obey they would put us to death.” 

“Those people could be manipulated,” Sanderson said. “They could be controlled. They could be made to do the most wicked things because they were afraid.”

That’s manipulation. That’s control. That’s the consequence—shall we say it?—of not being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses benefiting from the program of spiritual food directed from the Governing Body. And here is Witness (and numerous others) sniveling about “brutal peer pressure!” The woman is a joke, as are all those who rage against the “control” of the GB. Had there been similar “control” among the Axis population, there would have been no need for the Nuremberg trials.

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2020/02/if-youre-going-to-bewail-manipulation-bewail-it-where-it-counts.html

[Anna]

12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

On 7/12/2020 at 2:33 AM, Anna said:

There have always been opposers, but now they are finding more of a voice than they ever had before...

Sometimes all you have to do with a statement like that from the Glock

Wait a minute....are you saying that was a statement from Br. Glock? Because it wasn't, that was what I deducted from what I've been seeing.

[Anna]

42 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil, and that he might set free all those who were held in slavery all their lives by their fear of death.”

He then spoke of the Nuremberg trials, in which various Nazis who had committed unspeakable atrocities were asked the simple question, “How could you do those terrible things?” “What did they say?” he asked, and then related the answer they had given: “We had no choice. If we didn’t obey they would put us to death.” 

In context this is true of course. But some opposers will say they were held in slavery by the JW religion because of the fear of death because if they didn't do what was right they were going to die. 

[TrueTomHarley]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

OBEY

How can one be so obtuse as Srecko? He fusses on and on about the GB’s counsel, as seen through the appreciative eyes of Glock. “It’s just good sound human advice,” he says. “What’s God got to do with it?”

He misses the point most powerful so as to focus on the petty. Tell Jehovah’s people to obey the secular authorities, and they will. Tell ones of the greater world to obey, and they won’t—as a group, I mean—obviously there will be a Bell curve, but it is where that Bell curve falls that determines success of failure.

Here is a post from CNBC entitled, “Salesforce’s Marc Benioff: Face masks can end the U.S. coronavirus crisis within weeks.”

Within, Benioff says: “If everyone in the United States wore a mask for 3 weeks — just 3 weeks — we would not have anymore coronavirus because there would be no more spread, but people do not want to wear masks.”

One would think that Srecko would be cheerleading for Jehovah’s Witnesses. One would think he would be urging all to come under their umbrella—for there is to be found the end of Covid-19 within three weeks. “People do not want to wear masks,” Benioff says. Witnesses do not want to wear them, either, but they are ready to 

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

OBEY

It is as though it is a dirty word. Consistently Srecko uses it this way—he and all his cohorts raging on about the ‘control’ and ‘manipulation’ of the GB. In this case, such obedience, which JWs by and large will render, and huge portions of his people will not, will serve to rescue the earth from the pandemic.

In fact, the very position of the Governing Body makes clear that they do not attempt to control people. They set an example—and people will take note of their example because they are highly regarded—but they make clear that each family head is responsible for the course his own family. As states open up—they are all over the board on this, just as they are all over the board on CSA laws—“obedience to secular authority” translates differently to different places—some localities require masks and some don’t—and there are further variances as to the circumstances that masks ought be worn. 

Suffice it to say that, if governments universally mandated masks in public, Witnesses would comply. Vast swaths of the overall world would not. It may be human advice, but Witnesses will comply because of the Bible requirement to be obedient to secular authority. At least some of the CultExpert’s followers will use their #FreedomOfMind to tell the government where it can go with it’s regulations.

That is why the GB must be credited—for presiding over a culture in which people will obey laws of Caesar, providing only that Caesar does not over reach into matters of God. And on mandating masks for a limited period, he does not.

[TrueTomHarley]

19 minutes ago, Anna said:

Wait a minute....are you saying that was a statement from Br. Glock? 

No. Sorry. I just highlighted some words of yours to get your attention. It does sort of look that I am attributing them to Glock, doesn’t it?

11 minutes ago, Anna said:

But some opposers will say they were held in slavery by the JW religion because of the fear of death because if they didn't do what was right they were going to die. 

Do you mean they feared that if they left, Jehovah’s Witnesses would kill them?

When Fauci says people may die if they do not wear a mask, do people take it that he means to kill them himself? When the fire department says you may die if you don’t change the batteries of your smoke detector, does it mean they are going to do the deed themselves.

Of course not on all three. The game is too stupid to play. Such opposers are just upset that faith has power—they wish it were gutted. Of course, the Witnesses say that departing from Jehovah’s organized way exposes one to eventual death. A very good tell that such might be true is that whenever ones do it, in no time at all they come to think the Name itself is a hill of beans, and that it hardly matters if it is used or not.

 

 

[Witness]

I agree, Arauna.  Peer pressure is everywhere and in every form.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

That is why we are now in a time when they will manipulate everyone to do their bidding and only those with very strong faith will survive. 

 

15 hours ago, Witness said:

"But we are acting against Jehovah’s purpose if we do not obey the faithful and discreet slave or if we choose to obey only what we think is important. And if we act against Jehovah’s purpose, we cannot be his friends. In the next article, we will talk about some situations that give us the opportunity to show if we are obedient. The decisions we make in these situations will show if we have entered into God’s rest."  WT 11/7/15 p. 21

The GB manipulates JWs to obey them "to do their bidding", using threats of losing God's friendship otherwise.  Can you see this?  

Were they inspired when they wrote the above quote?  We know they weren't, since they admit they are not "inspired" by God's Holy Spirit. So then, what was their motivation to threaten their "sheep" with the loss of God's favor for not obeying the GB?  JWs "show" their obedience to the organization through adherence to rules and regulations devised by these men.  These are rules and regulations to support the life of an organization, not the life of an individual.

Jesus and the apostles are our foundation of truth to go by.  The GB are not apostles, nor Moses, and they are not inspired; yet they have successfully gained 8 million followers who believe that without their leadership, no one can be God's friend.  How did the anointed and believers in Christ before the organization was born, develop a relationship with God AND Jesus Christ, without the GB to OBEY?  

This is deceitful manipulation of the worst kind.  It is a fabrication, a myth, and one that robs individuals of spiritual eternal life. John 10:1

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

That is why we are now in a time when they will manipulate everyone to do their bidding and only those with very strong faith will survive. 

"I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is going to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom, 2 preach the word, be ready in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all patience and instruction. 3 For there will be a time when they will not put up with sound teaching, but in accordance with their own desires, they will accumulate for themselves teachers, because they have an insatiable curiosity ("itching ears"), 4 and they will turn away from the hearing of the truth, but will turn to myths. 5 But you, be self-controlled in all things, bear hardship patiently, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."  2 Tim 4:1-5

It is not "sound teaching" but pure manipulation to enforce obedience to men who fail time and time again in their teachings - their doctrines.  Failed predictions, false teachings are rotten fruit.  How much of if will JWs consume before feeling its manipulative effects?  Isa 28:7-13; Matt 7:15-20; Gal 1;6-10

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The woman is a joke, as are all those who rage against the “control” of the GB.

You know, the book of Isaiah made a "joke" about God's people in the past, who preached their own doctrine and rules.  The GB freely add footnotes to God's Word and call it, "spiritual food", which most definitively can be proven through scripture as found outside of the "food" taught by Christ and the apostles. Do you remember how Jesus addressed the addition of rules outside of God's laws, and enforced by the Pharisees? Matt 23 goes in to detail about this.  Go ahead, read it.

To God, a lie cannot be changed to a truth.  It is a "joke" to believe every failed prediction and doctrine taught by the GB/organization, is acceptable to God.  

 

And these also stagger because of wine
    and stagger because of strong drink;
priest and prophet stagger because of strong drink;
    they are confused because of wine.
They stagger because of strong drink;
    they err in vision.
They stagger in the rendering of a decision,
8     for all the tables are full of disgusting vomit, with no place left.
9 To whom will he teach knowledge,
    and to whom will he explain the message?
Those who are weaned from milk,
    those taken from the breast?
10 For it is blah-blah upon blah-blah,
    blah-blah upon blah-blah,
gah-gah upon gah-gah,
    gah-gah upon gah-gah,[h]
a little here, a little there.

[h] - In this context, the Hebrew expressions tsaw-tsaw and qaw-qaw are likely meant to sound like baby talk, but they could mean “command upon command” and “rule upon rule”

For he will speak with stammering lips and another tongue to this people, 12 to whom he has said,

“This is rest; give rest to the weary;
    and this is repose”; yet they were not willing to hear. (Matt 11:28)

13 And to them the word of Yahweh will be

blah-blah upon blah-blah
    blah-blah upon blah-blah
gah-gah upon gah-gah
    gah-gah upon gah-gah,
a little here, a little there,

so that they may go and stumble backward
    and be broken and ensnared and captured."  

Therefore hear the word of Yahweh, men of mockery,
    rulers of these people in Jerusalem:

15 Because you have said,

“We have made a covenant with death,
    and we have made an agreement with Sheol.

The overwhelming flood, when it passes through, will not come to us,

for we have made lies our refuge,
and we have hidden ourselves in falsehood.”  Isa 28:7-15  (the entire chapter is well worth considering)

 

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Oh it all makes such fun reading. I was bored but you lot have given me a good laugh. Thank you .

Lets start here : Quote @TrueTomHarley When Fauci says people may die if they do not wear a mask, do people take it that he means to kill them himself? When the fire department says you may die if you don’t change the batteries of your smoke detector, does it mean they are going to do the deed themselves.

When John Butler said the GB may be 'removed' did John Butler then mean that HE was going to remove them himself ? No, just as TTH has written above, John Butler was not issuing a threat. It follows the same principle that TTH uses above. But John Butler was disfellowshipped from this forum, so that shows Control by the Elders that run this forum. 

Quote TTH “Those people could be manipulated,” Sanderson said. “They could be controlled. They could be made to do the most wicked things because they were afraid.”

That’s manipulation. That’s control. That’s the consequence—shall we say it?—of not being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses

No, what we can say is that all the JW Circuit Overseers, Elders and Ministerial Servants, that deliberately HID Child Sexual Abuse in the congregations were CONTROLLED by the Leaders of the CCJW. And we can say that the GB HAS CONTROL over the 20 + year Database containing information about hundreds of Paedophiles in the USA CCJW. 

Now that is manipulation. That is Control  And why ?

Quote @Anna  But some opposers will say they were held in slavery by the JW religion because of the fear of death because if they didn't do what was right they were going to die. 

BUT it wasn't a case of doing what was right. It was just doing as they were ordered. "Keep it all secret in the Org so as not  to bring God's name to shame"  What a weak excuse. 

And then we have the SHUNNING, where people lose all of their family and friends if they don't obey orders from the GB. Now that is control and manipulation.

Add to this the THREAT from the GB / Leaders of the CCJW. "If a person is not a BAPTISED  JW they will not be saved through Armageddon" 

And, the further threat from the GB, "If any of the Anointed should meet together for bible study or association that will be WORKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT" 

If you do not see all this as control and manipulation it is because you are being CONTROLLED AND MANIPULATED. 

TTH says "Such opposers are just upset that faith has power—

You have it backwards Tom. It is the GB and the other leaders of the CCJW that are upset, because FAITH has power. The Faith of those that serve God through Christ, not through the GB.  That is why the GB tell the true Anointed not to gather together, because the GB are afraid. Remember Matthew 18 v 20 that where two or more gather in Christ's name, He will be there with them. How your GB are frightened of that happening. 

Tom, if you need to kid yourself that people that leave the CCJW forget about God and Christ, then it is just showing your insecurity. You show that you are worried that the true Anointed remnant may be getting the Holy Spirit that your Org is lacking. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

CC is such a comedian. Worshipping the GB as usual. you will have such a shock when they fall. 

Quote CC. "Now, the answer of Bother Jackson was, the GB are equal to the other members as far as spirituality is concerned, "

Which is quite funny as the GB CALL THEMSELVES the Faithful and discreet Slave. ONLY those 8 men. So that is spiritually exalting themselves above the rest of the Anointed. And then they tell the rest of the Anointed that they must not gather together to study the Bible or have association, or the GB say the other Anointed would  be "working against the Holy Spirit".  Now, what gives the GB the right to 'beat their fellow slaves' ? What gives the GB the right to give orders to other Anointed if they are all spiritually equal ? 

It is complete hypocrisy of course.  

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

How can one be so obtuse as Srecko?

Don't worry, Tom. I know my very short and very simple comment hurts, but the pain will pass.  

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Another error I just noticed is the "twisting of Bro Jackson's" words to the ARC.

Who did it? Me? Where please? I thing how i didn't mention GJ in this topic. 

And please, i never twisting other people words. If i comment their quotes that is not "twisting" :))

[Arauna]

12 hours ago, Anna said:

because of the fear of death because if they didn't do what was right they were going to die. 

That is applicable to any christian religion that follows the bible.... not just JWs.... the bible says you will die if you do not obey jehovah. Adam is in Gehenna and Satan and his demons will soon follow.. They obviously do not like what jehovah has to say, so they become victims.  They promote the idea of victimhood! Soon 'authorities' will scrutinize JWs for this view because this new victimhood culture is everywhere! Part of post modern philosophy. Everyone wants freedom with NO responsibility. Especially free morals.

Jehovah teaches freedom WITH much responsibility.  Everything you do - this can impact your neighbor.   Adultery, stealing, lying.... So, when you have a more developed conscience-  a more refined mature conscience.-  you will willingly obey all Jehovahs laws all the time because it not only benefits yourself but also blesses your neighbours.  You willingly exercise much self-control to not harm your neighbor because this is how a truly free society functions. Personal freedom with much personal responsibility. 

This concept was already built into the mosaic law - not to covet...... anything of your neighbor.  The person has to inspect themselves regularly to see if they covet anything their neighbour has, be it attention, love, good standing, a material thing.....Here the self-regulation manifests itself. 

But as we know - there are all those who are still immature, or those who think too much of their abilities.  I need not listen to anyone or show self-restraint...... and I do not like you telling me that I will die if I do not have an obedient personality..... that is all hogwash.... you just love to control......... These people have the audacity to even call jehovah a control-freek or a dictator.   They will help this world turn against all religion soon.... Those people without any law feel that religion is just a method to control people - they say. 

Jehovahs government under christ will allow much freedom because each person will be accountable to jehovah. Self-responsibility and self-control (willing obedience) will be crucial. All equal under perfect law driven by love for others. Jehovah will decide when the rebellious  get removed if they keep being rebellious.