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[Arauna]

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Worshipping the GB as usual. you will have such a shock when they fall.  

We expect anything to happen. So we will just go on worshipping jehovah and obeying his laws by self-regulation.

Your world will fall apart.  Because the purpose of your life seems to be to oppose JWs, GB..... so when this purpose is no longer there, the meaning for your life will be gone. Your goal is not to obey god and you do not accept any help to do so in a better way. The GB only faciliteates our faith.

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Of course, I understand this to be your personal opinion. An opinion gathered by a wrong perspective and attitude toward an organization you now feel compelled to discredit. We can all do that as a matter of opinion. However, scripture does point out how dangerous and destructive those personal points of view can be to God himself.

WT Lawyer Mr. David Gnam: 

 “Disfellowship” literally means “no further spiritual fellowship” with the individual. […] The nature of the relationship, then, of a disfellowshipped person is not completely shunned. The disfellowshipped person is able to come into the congregation meetings, they’re able to attend in the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses, they’re able to sit wherever they like, they can sing the spiritual songs with the congregation.

Well, this is full of contradiction or, as you would say, this is so "twisted". If dfd person comes to KH, sit there and sing with JW who are not dfd, how this is not "spiritual fellowship"? They siting and singing together "spiritual songs".

And now, one more "twisted reality is this". If such dfd individual and his JW brothers want to go to drink glass of beer after "siting and singing together in KH" would that be OK according to WT Lawyer, according to WT publications, according to you?? Because if they go in pub and siting and drinking beer together that is not against genuine WT Lawyer explanation -  “Disfellowship” literally means “no further spiritual fellowship” with the individual.  Because if they drink a beer or coffee together, what "spiritual component" existing in that?? Perhaps that would be "social component"? But as we all know very well "socializing with dfd or non-JW person" outside of JW "spiritual activity" (that is preaching and Bible study, meetings in KH), that would be FORBIDDEN, sinful BEHAVIOR in JW church,  according to WT publications and according JW elders interpretations.

Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t use the word “shun” or “shunning”. 

Is this "twisting or lying" ?? 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

8 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t use the word “shun” or “shunning”. 

Is this "twisting or lying" ?? 

Watch the video Loyally Uphold Jehovah’s Judgments—Shun Unrepentant Wrongdoers, and then answer the following questions: - https://www.jw.org/en/library/jw-meeting-workbook/september-2017-mwb/meeting-schedule-sept18-24/loyal-when-relative-disfellowshipped/

 

Is strict avoidance really necessary? Yes, for several reasons. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/gods-love/disfellowshipped-person/

Synonyms for avoidance

Synonyms: cop-out, dodging, ducking, eluding, elusion, escape, eschewal, eschewing, evasion, out, shaking, shunning - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avoidance

 

You may want to know the outcome of the court case involving a woman who was upset because former acquaintances would not converse with her after she chose to reject the faith, disassociating herself from the congregation.

¹⁷ Before the case went to trial, a federal district court summarily granted judgment against her. That judgment was based on the concept that courts do not get involved in church disciplinary matters. She then appealed. The unanimous judgment of the federal court of appeals* was based on broader grounds of First Amendment (of the U.S. Constitution) rights: “Because the practice of shunning is a part of the faith of the Jehovah’s Witness, we find that the ‘free exercise’ provision of the United States Constitution . . . precludes [her] from prevailing. The defendants have a constitutionally protected privilege to engage in the practice of shunning. Accordingly, we affirm” the earlier judgment of the district court.

¹⁸ The court opinion continued: “Shunning is a practice engaged in by Jehovah’s Witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, ... - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1988287#h=51

 

Please, dear JW defenders, Do you really need to defend WT lawyer Mr David Gnam twisting, lying on Court?

[Arauna]

19 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

want to go to drink glass of beer after "siting and singing together in KH"

YOUR words are so twisted  - no logic. You do not see anything wrong with your reasoning?  

You are like a person who tells a child NOT to do something because it is bad....it will hurt his brother and himself......you will put them in time-out... for punishment. Then when the child deliberately does it …… you put him in time-out and he screams as if you are murdering him..... He plays the victim and gets attention by playing the victim.  He is so stubborn he does not calm down and think about what he did...…...so you feel ashamed for the discipline and take him out of time-out …..without the child ever learning that  there are consequences to his dangerous behavior and disobedience. (I have seen kids like this many times in my life - uncontrollable, especially in shops - because they have never had proper consequences for bad behavior). Then when these children turn out to be irresponsible as adults ….. because they are adults now they now become innocent? They have rights to break gods laws?  or do they need Jehovah's discipline if they want to serve him.... Or does Jehovah not discipline those he loves? 

Hebrews 12: “My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; ⁶  for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.”  ⁷  You need to endure as part of your discipline.God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?" 

Most JWs know there is consequences to a pattern of dangerous spiritual behavior.  They KNOW the consequences but are not prepared to take the time-out.  To humbly attend meetings will get them back on a path to reinstatement but NO their sensitive egos and rights are more important that serving Jehovah. They howl and scream like a stubborn child and publicly call the JWs and GB cruel etc.   Their stubbornness does not bring them favor with Jehovah or teach them respect or obedience to Jehovah's laws.  They apply the laws of Jehovah in the way their own DESIRES dictate.... then they howl in public how bad JWs are.... when we are the ones strictly adhering to the dictates of the very one (Jehovah) they claim to serve.

 

[Anna]

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Do you mean they feared that if they left, Jehovah’s Witnesses would kill them?

No, that they would die at Armageddon.

[Anna]

12 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

so that shows Control by the Elders that run this forum. 

For goodness sake John Butler, I mean 4Jah2me, there are no elders controlling this forum! 

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

YOUR words are so twisted  - no logic. You do not see anything wrong with your reasoning?  

You are like a person who tells a child NOT to do something because it is bad....it will hurt his brother and himself......you will put them in time-out... for punishment. Then when the child deliberately does it …… you put him in time-out and he screams as if you are murdering him..... He plays the victim and gets attention by playing the victim.  He is so stubborn he does not calm down and think about what he did...…...so you feel ashamed for the discipline and take him out of time-out …..without the child ever learning that  there are consequences to his dangerous behavior and disobedience. (I have seen kids like this many times in my life - uncontrollable, especially in shops - because they have never had proper consequences for bad behavior). Then when these children turn out to be irresponsible as adults ….. because they are adults now they now become innocent? They have rights to break gods laws?  or do they need Jehovah's discipline if they want to serve him.... Or does Jehovah not discipline those he loves? 

Hebrews 12: “My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; ⁶  for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.”  ⁷  You need to endure as part of your discipline.God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?" 

Most JWs know there is consequences to a pattern of dangerous spiritual behavior.  They KNOW the consequences but are not prepared to take the time-out.  To humbly attend meetings will get them back on a path to reinstatement but NO their sensitive egos and rights are more important that serving Jehovah. They howl and scream like a stubborn child and publicly call the JWs and GB cruel etc.   Their stubbornness does not bring them favor with Jehovah or teach them respect or obedience to Jehovah's laws.  They apply the laws of Jehovah in the way their own DESIRES dictate.... then they howl in public how bad JWs are.... when we are the ones strictly adhering to the dictates of the very one (Jehovah) they claim to serve.

 

Dear Arauna, i didn't comment this aspect of WT policies about why dfd is part of JW faith. And i wouldn't.

I simply and clearly put on daylight what and how WT Lawyer doing in Court in his/their attempt to defend Image of religious "mountain-like organization", before secular authorities and before  other "sister's religious" organizations, representatives who attended court process.                

I think that your comment have to be a addressed to Mr. David Gnam !  

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

We expect anything to happen. So we will just go on worshipping jehovah and obeying his laws by self-regulation.

Your world will fall apart.  Because the purpose of your life seems to be to oppose JWs, GB..... so when this purpose is no longer there, the meaning for your life will be gone. Your goal is not to obey god and you do not accept any help to do so in a better way. The GB only faciliteates our faith.

Dear lady. WHEN will you be able to tell the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN Almighty God, and, your GB. 

I notice that the GB get capital letters but GOD doesn't even get a Capital G. Even the name Jehovah doesn't get a capital J.  Now I think that shows where your love is. 

When your GB are no longer there then I may be able to return to a religion which will have God's approval through Christ. But whilst your GB are poisoning the CCJW then it is too unclean to be part of. When the True Anointed 'stand up' and take their proper place, then there will be true worship of God, then i can move forward. But, I'm not impatient, I can wait and watch and hopefully I will be able to serve God properly through Christ when the time is right. But as I've said before, i do not expect the 'reward'. Many men went to war knowing that they would not survive but they continued to 'do their duty'. I feel that if i am able to fight for Truth then that is enough reward for me. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

6 hours ago, Anna said:

No, that they would die at Armageddon.

21 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Do you mean they feared that if they left, Jehovah’s Witnesses would kill them?

No, that they would die at Armageddon.

@Anna has it in one.  This fear installed in JWs that they must be part of the CCJW to survive Armageddon.

The old teaching that the CCJW is the 'new' Ark.  Problem is, the original ARK was spiritually clean, but the new ark isn't. The original ARK was inspired by God, the 'new ark' isn't.  

[JW Insider]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please, dear JW defenders, Do you really need to defend WT lawyer Mr David Gnam twisting, lying on Court?

Lawyering (and barristering) is a whole field unto itself with its own ethics considerations, similar to how policeman in the United States are legally allowed, and often expected, to lie to a suspect to elicit incriminating information for a case. My oldest son is an attorney. In his last two years of law school they had him do paid summer internships with a well-known and well-respected firm in NYC, and they kept putting him on cases to help defend cigarette companies and insurance companies to lower their payouts. He was not an attorney yet, but he learned how the entire existence of some of the major law firms is based on their ability to get away with lying. After he took the exam and became a lawyer himself, he took a job in family court, and found, of course, that dishonesty pervades each side of arguments there, too. So now he does mostly real estate, wills and estates, and contract law. (Yet in just those few weeks of paid internship as a non-attorney he made more money than in his first year of being an attorney.)

The case with Gnam above is not nearly as serious as others, even compared to examples of other Watchtower lawyers in the U.S. But I don't condone such dishonesty, even in small amounts. In my opinion Mr. David Gnam is dishonest here, and therefore a wrongdoer, and very likely an unrepentant wrongdoer. I don't think he should be disbarred, but he should not be used by the Watchtower Society in any way unless he is ready to be honest.

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

think that your comment have to be a addressed to Mr. David Gnam

You are the one who mentioned that people cannot drink a beer together etc. It is so harsh... well this is why I used the example of a child being put in time-out.  If you are in time-out... take the discipline of Jehovah and start to serve him again. Do not let your pride get the better of you.

[Arauna]

31 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

I notice that the GB get capital letters but GOD

I notice you are getting picky on silly acronyms - where I come from we do not use them but in USA they are popular... so I use them on this forum.   God is only a title..... so do not pick a fight on silly things to get away from being exposed.