How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?

[JW Insider]

15 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Bow down to our God you wretched cur, and repent.

You probably remember the time about 4 years ago, when I first mistook Allen Smith for a disgruntled ex-JW trying to make JWs look bad. At that time I came to the defense of other Witnesses on here (the old jw-archive.org forum at the time) and made it clear that all other Witnesses that I know, or have ever known, weren't at all like him. I certainly hope you not playing a game just to make JWs look bad.

Then again, you appear to think that my goal is to make JWs look bad, although I would say that I'm pushing for improvements. Even if you can't see a need for any improvements in processes and doctrines, you might still understand why others could want better explanations for certain difficult doctrines, and want more transparency when it comes to certain decisions and policies.

At any rate, I still find many of your points interesting, especially when you are talking to others here. When you talk to me, however, you seem to give up too easily, avoiding evidence offered, and offering non-responsible material in return. You do yourself no favors by merely lashing out with ad hominem vitriol, because it makes it look like you didn't have anything reasonable to offer.

For example, I asked:

17 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Can you explain why you think that Russell was the Faithful and Wise Servant when the Watchtower currently teaches that the slave did not come into existence until 1919 . . . ?

You're answer was this:

15 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Since you want to twist and turn words to benefit you, why doesn't your ignorance answer why Russell didn't want to be since as that servant, and the impact it had for 1919.

Maybe it's just me, but I really can't get the sense of this answer. I can't see how it lets your reasonableness be known to all.

(Titus 3:2) " . . .  to speak injuriously of no one, not to be quarrelsome, but to be reasonable."

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

.... Just as a point of interest ... if I was a wretched cur, wouldn't my God be the human that fed me, and took me to the Vet?

Seriously though ... I seem to remember that both Allen Smith and BillyTheKid46 have both alluded in the past to being mentally ill, and castigated those of us (?) who were ridiculing his/their "condition", when in fact I knew nothing about it until he/they brought it up.

I make jokes about this or that person being mentally off, but then again I make jokes about everything and most of the time it is in jest, and the other person is mock-insulting me right back, which is what guys do.

I even make disparaging jokes about myself, if I think the jokes work.

I personally believe that Allen, Billy and Foreigner and perhaps one other are the same person, as a matter if casual speculation .... but perhaps we are making the mistake of assuming that the "Fantastic Four" are mentally competent, and at least marginally sane ... and therefor holding him/them to a higher standard than would be reasonable.

What disturbs me is when a person that appears to be borderline insane "has" a fantasy .50 caliber BMG sniper rifle, in addition to another possibly fantasy arsenal, and is as insulting and bitter as he/they is/are.

In 1972 I spent 6 hours in a psych ward from an allergic reaction to a drug I was taking for asthma, as I was delirious, my estranged first wife sent me there after the ambulance rescued me from the asthma .... and I walked around for awhile looking at the "crazy people" in the ward, and decided I had to get out of there quick, or soon I would become like them.

The "doctor" wanted to keep me for further observation, although I was fine, until I said "You know, of course, that I am not going to pay you.", and I signed myself out.

The point of this shaggy dog (cur?) story is that interacting with crazy people can make an empathic person just as nutso as they are, and I suppose that is why even psychiatrists have psychiatrists.

If you get a chance, be sure to see the movie "One Flew Over The Cookoo's Nest", with Jack Nicholson getting electric shock therapy, walking out and winking at the Indian.  That scene was worth the whole movie!

"Sling Blade" .... was another story!

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

There is of course, a simpler explanation .... " WDS - The sword that cuts both ways."

[JW Insider]

59 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Seriously though ... I seem to remember that both Allen Smith and BillyTheKid46 have both alluded in the past to being mentally ill

I think that people were noticing some language issues, and he mentioned dyslexia, hardly in a category of "mental illness."

But there is good reason for concern, not the least of which is the evidence that not just the three names, but literally more than 30 different names have been used by him. The "projection" and "blame-shifting" and something I'll call "grudge echolalia" seem to come too natural to be faked. And I think several here have suspected certain obsessions and pathological tendencies.

That said, I think his defense of the WTS is actually sincere.

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Anna Please explain that expression 'out of whack' for me, remembering that I'm not American. 

If you mean that my thoughts are not your thoughts, then good. If you mean my thoughts are not JW Org thoughts, even better. 

As far as I am aware there is not much difference between an error and a mistake

The word was ERR. 

err

/əː/

verb

FORMAL

 

1. be mistaken or incorrect; make a mistake.

   "the judge had erred in ruling that the evidence was inadmissible"

   synonyms:

   make a mistake, be wrong, be in error, be mistaken, mistake, make a blunder, blunder, be incorrect, be inaccurate, misjudge, miscalculate, get things/something/it wrong, bark up the wrong tree, get the wrong end of the stick, be wide of the mark; More

   • fail to adhere to the proper or accepted standards; do wrong.

     "he has erred and strayed as many of us have"

     synonyms:

     misbehave, do wrong, go wrong, behave badly, misconduct oneself, be bad, be naughty, get up to mischief, get up to no good, act up, act badly, give someone trouble, cause someone trouble; More You said to err and make mistakes. so you were using both meanings.  Even the word error can mean behave badly.  Definition of 'see the error of one's ways' If someone sees the error of their ways, they realize or admit that they have made a mistake or behaved badly.

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Anna 

The WT org. didn't foretell anything new, it just repeated what the Bible already foretold.

As for moral standards, you already forgot how high they are. You don't remember if someone is found to be unrepentantly flaunting God's moral standards they are out on their ear? 

Um, did the bible foretell Armageddon was coming in 1914 or 1975 ? I don't think so. 

Did the Bible foretell that the generation of adults alive in 1914 would see Armageddon ? No. 

Did the Bible actually say that the Heavenly kingdom was set up in 1914 ?  Um prob's not.  

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Moral standards. The standards are not high, they are just hidden. Once again CSA, but i know it falls of deaf ears.

However they will accuse one man and one woman of committing fornication, where there is no evidence at all.  But children suffer and are not listened to.

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You are reading FAR too much into this! My inconsistency has nothing to do with the intention of twisting anything. Just laziness.

Your so called inconsistency was not such at all. You were either fully aware or under the same influence that the GB and it's  Org are under. 

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1975 was speculation. To be baptized as JW to be saved is a belief. Armageddon being close is also a belief.

All three were / are beliefs, but all based on speculation.The first was proved false. The other two there is no proof of. 

The point being about baptism that the scriptures say to baptise in the name of the father, son and holy spirit. That does not include JW Org.  Matthew 28 v 19 

 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 

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we CAN make mistakes in understanding where holy spirit is leading "us" (the person in question). Just because the holy spirit guides, doesn't mean that someone is capable of following it perfectly all the time. 

This shows a sad lack of faith in you.  If everyone thought along those lines we might start to think that even the Bible can be wrong as it was written by imperfect men. It was also put together by imperfect men. We might think that other 'books' should be added. We might start to think that we can ignore bits as they may be 'mistakes'. 

You way of thinking is that your GB are the F&DS and can make mistakes and TEACH MISTAKES. Well the disciples/ Apostles were chosen by God or Christ, so could their writings be mistakes ?  Is this the excuse you are looking for to get your GB off the hook ?  Ye of little faith. 

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Calling themselves the F&DS...............

Perhaps they are not going beyond what is written. How would you know?

By their works you will know them.  And Luke 14 v 11 

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Yes, in fact God and Jesus want us to be obedient; "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account"... (Heb 13: 17)

EVERY Christian Organisation / Church could use that very same scripture.  The Bible is not the property of the GB and JW Org.  I could imagine the Pope using it  .

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But complete obedience is first and foremost to God.

One day you will say those words and then realise why John Butler left the JW Org. 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 7/1/2019 at 3:53 AM, Anna said:

The mature Christian accepts they may understand things differently and moves on, and waits till things become clearer one way or another.

Does this mean how such JW person will/ have to preach what GB told him to preach contrary to his Understanding?? Because if so, his trumpet not giving clear sound to people around. In other words, such sound is clear only in the ears of GB but not clear in the ear of particular JW and  "unbeliever". Also, in that circumstances, JW person who is not convinced in such doctrine, spreading "false truth" that  is against his own conscience.  

Or, in some particular examples we have JW members who NOT Preaching (all sort of preaching, inside and outside congregation) that questionable doctrines and instructions. So much about Unity and Harmony of WT Society if members are not happy with some doctrines. :))  

On 7/1/2019 at 4:32 AM, JW Insider said:

On 6/24/2019 at 7:06 AM, Noble Berean said:

"[A mature christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." (w01 8/1 p.14)

On 7/1/2019 at 3:53 AM, Anna said:

On 6/24/2019 at 7:06 AM, Noble Berean said:

So, under what circumstances would JWs suddenly become aware that their personal ideas on the Bible have weight?

When it's not merely a personal opinion or idea but a clear unambiguous Bible teaching.

 

On 7/1/2019 at 4:32 AM, JW Insider said:

Another article said pretty much the same thing:

 *** w04 10/1 p. 7 “The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth”—How? ***
 One who is meek humbly accepts God’s standards in all aspects of his personal life; he does not insist on going by his own views or by other people’s opinions. He is also teachable, willing to be taught by Jehovah. The psalmist David wrote: “[Jehovah] will cause the meek ones to walk in his judicial decision, and he will teach the meek ones his way.”—Psalm 25:9; Proverbs 3:5, 6.

 

Own views, personal opinions, private ideas, other people's opinions, unambiguous Bible teaching .....  

In contrary to JW Private views are ..... Collective GB views, opinions, ideas that they marked as Bible teachings :))) 

[Noble Berean]

On 7/3/2019 at 1:11 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

For one, think about the times, or are you confused. Back then, organ transplant was not an option with either fraction blood of bloodless surgery. Try to get your decades straight.

 

The other one. This is a new one. Where in the world did you cook up this lie from? Women unable to yell out when being raped, WOW!

 

Where has the Watchtower told any woman that? I will hold your personal responsible for this slander, so enlighten me. Show proof. NB! Make it good, since this one I will go after! 🤔

Sure. Jump to page 82: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwbiWY5ulihhSDI5MkxMbGJnR0E/view?usp=sharing

 

[JW Insider]

14 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

Sure. Jump to page 82: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwbiWY5ulihhSDI5MkxMbGJnR0E/view?usp=sharing

A lot of material in there. This came up as "03. Light Brighter Part A.PDF." Are we to assume there is also a Part B? or even Part C? I notice that there is also mention of a "1925 folder" and that "03." implies more parts, too. Are these also shareable? Privately if not publicly?

[Noble Berean]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

A lot of material in there. This came up as "03. Light Brighter Part A.PDF." Are we to assume there is also a Part B? or even Part C? I notice that there is also mention of a "1925 folder" and that "03." implies more parts, too. Are these also shareable? Privately if not publicly?

Yes that was just one part of it. There's an entire drive of information. Here you go: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwbiWY5ulihhbUtHMExCMElWRjA?usp=sharing

[JW Insider]

52 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

There's an entire drive of information.

Represents an awful lot of work. Thanks.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

2 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Stupid is as stupid does! I guess you are proof of it! 😂

I absolutely LOVE staggering irony, Billy, and you never fail to deliver!