607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported?

[AlanF]

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

The most accurate way to test the date of 607 BCE is to go to the Greek sources (olympiads) - they are more accurate and the PIVITOL date is the death of Cyrus from which on can determine the length of his rule and how long it would take the Israelite nation to return to their LAND.

By all means, show us how this should be done. And again, give your source references.

AlanF

[AlanF]

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

This scripture in Jeremia also refers to the LAND -  also read Isiah 1 which I quoted earlier in a previous contribution - the LAND would be without the usual planting. 

The root cause::  Israel's problem was not hegemony - but religious.  God did not send them to Babylon because he wanted a new ruler for them on a whim - it was a punishment because they had defiled the LAND with bad religious practice and not keeping the Sabbaths.

So after 70 years when they return and the land is becoming active like before  

Already debunked.

AlanF

[Foreigner]

12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

If Jesus rejected the 2,520, then who am I to say Jesus was wrong? Note, as I said above, that I have no problem with accepting the WTS view of most doctrines, even if they are not based on evidence. The vast majority of doctrines are absolutely correct from a Biblical point of view. I think they should be given the benefit of the doubt as respected teachers.

Hmm! Ok. Let’s let’s pretend that you know exactly what Jesus thoughts were, by putting words into his mouth, and he didn’t consider the prophecies of the Old Testament. Do you believe in the Gentile Times as Jesus did? If so, where would you place this infamous 1260? You sight 33CE. Is this your starting point, *IF* you believe in Jesus words?

Romans 11:25

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

Luke 21:24

24They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations. And Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Let's start keeping it short. There’s too much ignorance thrown in the mix by AlanF, with his attempts to look smart instead of the biggest fool.

[AlanF]

7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

@Arauna@Arauna

[ The usual claptrap deleted ]

Just tell Arauana what bad error she has committed. Leave your Latin phrases at home with your atheist pals, who are all very impressed with them

It's amazing how predictable many JW apologists are -- too ignorant to participate in the topic, so they resort to taking potshots (ad hominems) at the ones who are intelligent enough to participate.

AlanF

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, AlanF said:

he deportations were large, but certainly didn't involve the entire nation.

1.   After initial fall of Jerusalem: 10,000 princes, 7000 mighty warriors, and every craftsman and metal worker  which were 1000 -  2kings 24:11-16 - He left the poor behind. A separate number of high ranking MEN are named in 2 Kings 24:14 and these numbered 3,023

Did you notice something about all these numbers?  They were only the family heads (men).  The children and wives were not numbered.

2.     After approximately 10 years (in 607) - Most of the remaining ones were removed from the land -  2Kings 25:11 it is described as "the rest of the population".

I do not know where you got your "scholarly ' information - but it is not accurate!

Additionally - 

Ezekiel 1:1 Now it happened in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

Verse 2: In the fith year of exile of Jehoiachin the word of Jehovah came to Ezekiel by the river Chebar…….

Some of the first captives were already living at Chebar! 

 

3.  The tablets you mentioned above - I quote: 

“The tablets shed light on the Judeans’ contributions, detailing taxes paid, debts owed, credits accumulated and trade in fruits and other commodities.”

These commodities will include agricultural produce, flax (for linen clothing) and food for many animals - which will include animal husbandry. 

 

I have a peeve with you - you think if you keep on denying something and ignoring something it will become true.

 

What was the root cause for the exile.... please answer...... their religious disobedience or was the reason that God had a whim to put them in a foreign land for no reason at all?  

 

 

[AlanF]

Arauna wrote:

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:: 70 years ended in 539 BCE

The 70 years ended when Cyrus took the title of "King of Babylon, Sumer and Akkad and of the four corners of the world" on NEW YEARS DAY (12 day yearly festival) Nissan 538 BCE.

 

Wrong. They ended in October, 539 BCE when Cyrus' armies conquered Babylon, called the king of Babylon to account by killing Belshazzar and taking over his empire, and installed the Persian empire as ruler of the Near East -- all of which events are described clearly in the Bible.

But you don't actually believe the Bible -- you believe Mommy Watch Tower.

You've failed to cite a single scripture to support your claims. Rather, you've just made bald assertions.

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Cyrus started his campaign in September 539 BCE when he crossed the Tigris with the subsequent Battle of Opis. After this he went after Nabonidus who had fled to Sippar - who managed to get away again from Sippar.  Babylon fell next.  Later Nabonidus gave himself up at Babylon because he had no allies.

Your description of events is essentially correct, but your conclusion directly contradicts Daniel 5, as I have repeatedly shown.

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Cyrus issued his edict shortly after his crowning allowing the Jews and other nations to take their gods with them - to their home.  

Correct.

AlanF

[Anna]

[AlanF]

1 hour ago, Foreigner said:

Let's start keeping it short. There’s too much ignorance thrown in the mix by AlanF, with his attempts to look smart instead of the biggest fool.

So says someone too ignorant to answer the least of my challenges.

AlanF

[AlanF]

Arauna wrote:

Quote

 

:: The deportations were large, but certainly didn't involve the entire nation.

1.   After initial fall of Jerusalem: 10,000 princes, 7000 mighty warriors, and every craftsman and metal worker  which were 1000 -  2kings 24:11-16 - He left the poor behind. A separate number of high ranking MEN are named in 2 Kings 24:14 and these numbered 3,023

Did you notice something about all these numbers?  They were only the family heads (men).  The children and wives were not numbered.

 

And?

Quote

 

2.     After approximately 10 years (in 607) - Most of the remaining ones were removed from the land -  2Kings 25:11 it is described as "the rest of the population".

I do not know where you got your "scholarly ' information - but it is not accurate!

 

I posted the URLs along with the quotations. Can't you read?

Quote

 

Additionally -

Ezekiel 1:1 Now it happened in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

Verse 2: In the fith year of exile of Jehoiachin the word of Jehovah came to Ezekiel by the river Chebar…….

Some of the first captives were already living at Chebar!

 

What of it?

Quote

 

3.  The tablets you mentioned above - I quote:

“The tablets shed light on the Judeans’ contributions, detailing taxes paid, debts owed, credits accumulated and trade in fruits and other commodities.”

These commodities will include agricultural produce, flax (for linen clothing) and food for many animals - which will include animal husbandry.

 

Right. No problem for my argument.
 
 

Quote

I have a peeve with you - you think if you keep on denying something and ignoring something it will become true.

You've lost the thread, my dear. See if you can get back on track: your denial of my argument that news of Cyrus' coming Edict could easily be spread among the captive Jews in plenty of time for them to get ready for a Return Journey in either 538 or 537 BCE. You continue to ignore this, but focus on a tiny piece of my argument.
 
 

Quote

What was the root cause for the exile.... please answer...... their religious disobedience or was the reason that God had a whim to put them in a foreign land for no reason at all?   

There was one root cause for the 49 years of the Exile: the Jews failed to humbly submit to Babylon. -- Jer. 27.

The root cause of the 70 years of Babylonian supremacy was God's displeasure with the wickedness of the Jews and the nations round about. He forced them to serve the king of Babylon, as opposed to being independent. Whether they served on their own land or in captivity/exile depended on their submission to Babylon.

AlanF

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, AlanF said:

since in OT usage a "city" can mean what we today call a village of a few dozen people.

All cities of significance were city-states with a priest-king in highest position in earlier times -  especially Babylon because it was the center of worship since its inception!

Mostly a place with fortified walls.  Later a city state became the central part of a large district it administered.... with a priesthood and a king and a temple to the main deity of the city. Most cities had many shrines to multiple gods but each city had its principal deity - the supreme god of the city.

The 10 tribes were scattered all over the empire (and the Judeans at the Chebar river )..... Most of the exports and imports were always done by river or canal because this was faster than a cart. They were ideally situated to 'produce' and export.  

Pottery could also be practiced at a river but the metal workers were highly valued and would be attached to the capital city because they could manufacture weapons.

 

[AlanF]

allensmith28 said:

Quote

 

A hilarious example by AlanF!!!

http://www.biblehistory.com/map_babylonian_captivity/map_of_the_deportation_of_judah_treatment_of_the_jews_in_babylon.html

 

LOL! I posted no such nonsense. YOU posted it. Either you're completely looney, or a pathological liar.

AlanF

[AlanF]

Arauna wrote:

Quote

 

:: since in OT usage a "city" can mean what we today call a village of a few dozen people.

All cities of significance were city-states with a priest-king in highest position in earlier times

 

Wrong. You keep shooting from the hip.

In the OT, a city doesn't have to be significant to be called a city. Note Genesis 4:17, for example:

<< Afterward Cain had sexual relations with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Eʹnoch. Then he engaged in building a city and named the city after his son Eʹnoch. >>

How many people do you think inhabited Cain's city right after he built it?

Note Genesis 19:4-5, for example, and the story of Lot:

<< Before they could lie down to sleep, the men of the city—the men of Sodʹom from boy to old man, all of them—surrounded the house in one mob. 5 And they kept calling out to Lot and saying to him: “Where are the men who came in to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we may have sex with them.” >>

How many men do you think surrounded Lot's house?

From "Strong's Comprehensive Concordance of The Bible", entry for "city" in the "Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary" section, p. 88; entry 5892: << `iyr: a city (a place guarded by waking or a watch) in the widest sense (even of a mere encampment or post). >>

From the Brown-Driver-Briggs "Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament", p. 746: << `iyr ... city, town ... 1. city, town, abode of men Gn 4:17 ... >>

From "Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament", Vol. XI, p. 55: << The settlements to which `ir refers range in size from small refuges to fortified cities. >>

Continuing to be mostly wrong:

Quote

Mostly a place with fortified walls.  Later a city state became the central part of a large district it administered.... with a priesthood and a king and a temple to the main deity of the city. Most cities had many shrines to multiple gods but each city had its principal deity - the supreme god of the city.

Again continuing to be mostly wrong, and unsupported with source references:

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The 10 tribes were scattered all over the empire

Irrelevant. That scattering occurred a hundred years earlier, and those Jews were not part of the Return from Babylon.

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(and the Judeans at the Chebar river )..... Most of the exports and imports were always done by river or canal because this was faster than a cart. They were ideally situated to 'produce' and export.

And?

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Pottery could also be practiced at a river but the metal workers were highly valued and would be attached to the capital city because they could manufacture weapons.

More or less as I've said.

AlanF