Jump to content
The World News Media

JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"


Jack Ryan

Recommended Posts

  • Member

@JW Insider you shared fine thoughts and showed your awareness and understanding of objections and questions other people accented and saw as serious items that need to be put on table for discussion and challenged. That is one of reason i like to read your comments which are respectful to other people, even when you are in a disagreement with them, about subject.    

55 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I hope you can see that, even with JWs out of the picture, you could probably accept this entire situation as a possible, and even normal, Christian congregation.

What you described, can be also applicable for many human activities. For example, people who have common interest in producing food and living in some rural area, joined together. Looking for ways how support each other and care about each other and shield each other from outside bad influence, greedy merchants, natural disasters and so on. Well, in technical way, things can be looked as same. People, in that small community, will be facing inside problems and making regulations, rules and laws. 

How far will they go? To proclaim such rules as "God given"? Would they stick to rules at any cost or would be, as TTH said, "adaptive to modern technology". Or, not only to technology :))) 

Of course, we always have fear and potentially difficult situation in both directions - to stick with old things, as well to accept new and unknown. Burden is heavier, because in all this we (they) want to PUSH God as reason, motive and result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 14.2k
  • Replies 176
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

First of all, before I begin answering, I wanted to say that I have long expected that any JWs who go online to defend their views publicly will see more and more of what is beginning to happen here.

The original post states that "JW.org Says "Apostates are Mentally Diseased." Whilst true, what is ommitted is that JW.org  is reflecting the Bible's view. Apart from what has already been quoted

Yes. I wrote up a post on this at the time and included how other translations handled the verse. An excerpt:   (from https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/who-is-mentally-diseased.html ) “Mor

Posted Images

  • Member

@JW Insider Yes I'm angry and I'm confused, as are others that trusted the JW Org for years, only to find out things that the GB / Org does that cannot surely be approved of by God. 

Unfortunately you use that word apostates again, because JW's are brainwashed with that word by GB / Elders.  I do wonder is there ever a meeting in a KH where that word isn't mentioned, either from platform of congregation. Can you not just accept that some of us are seeking TRUTH. 

Quote "Of course, I've brought up some of these same challenges myself, ...."  "I believe that we need some doctrinal adjustment"

" I'm not exactly defending the GB position against your challenges. "    (I come to bury Caesar not to praise him). :) 

" Yes. The GB dictate to the congregations and, unless the dictate is seen as unconscionable or unscriptural, the members of the congregations are expected to obey. Naturally, this can go too far,... "  (and it does go to far hence people complaints).

" GB's request to be trusted while admitting that some of the teachings and processes are bound to be mistaken now and then.. "

I believe the Watchtower comment was that the "GB are not inspired, so they can 'make mistakes and err' "

I picked up on this because the word 'err' can mean make mistakes or deliberately do wrong. 

But they would have written 'make mistakes and make mistakes'  so the word 'err' in this case must have been meant to deliberately do wrong.  Add to this that you are saying that "some of the teachings and processes are bound to be mistaken now and then.. "  

So if your GB are the F&DS  FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE,  why would God or Christ give them false information, or why would they be so indiscreet as to 'run ahead' of God given information. They admit to not being inspired, we agree on that much, surely they should be, as you would say, 'spirit directed' ?   Do you thing the 'overlapping generations' is spirit directed ? 

By the way, in your hypothesis, I didn't see the mention of God's holy spirit playing a part even once. 

I think I'm actually 'offended' (that not being exactly the word I'm looking for but.) by the words Governing Body. I hate when people use that to describe the first century overseers. Governing surely means to be in charge of, whereas those at the top should not be 'lording it over the congregation of God'. I would think a different title would be more appropriate.  What is your opinion on that ? 

"guardians of doctrine." didn't the Catholic church once use that expression ? So much so that they didn't allow people to have the Bible.....  But JW's are allowed to have their own Bibles and to do private study. However if JW's come to their own conclusion about certain scriptures, they must not share that with other JW's or it may be seen as 'causing a division in the congregation'. :) I find it funny, sorry.  It's like, yes read the Bible yourself but only believe what we say. 

It is now just after 12 noon here in UK. I need lunch and coffee (just to show you that I'm actually human). I could write tons more, such as the GB being 7 of the 8 American, whereas it could be more men from different countries. Or , such as the GB now being famous earth wide, but then telling the rest of the Anointed to not even contact each other. The GB saying only they are the F&DS, where as it was once the whole of the Anointed being the F&DS.  Thelist goes on.

And the fact that you are @JW Insider   A JW but giving out info about the GB and it's Org, so you cannot be completely happy with it yourself. Physically in but possibly spiritually out. Have a good day. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Yes I'm angry and I'm confused, as are others that trusted the JW Org for years

There's trust as in the type of trust you have in a trusted friend, and blind trust in someone who turned out not to be what you thought they were. I don't think of the organization as the religion we trust in. True religion is helping people who we can best help - materially, spiritually, emotionally -- with the proper unselfish, loving motivation, and therefore without spot from this world. An organization, i.e., a publishing house, researchers, coordinators, a legal department, etc., are just tools that a group of sincere Christians might be expected to utilize for a more efficient method of getting the word out in the midst of a complex world. It's not something to trust blindly as if it is Christianity, or even as if it represents true Christianity.

(These are my opinions, of course.)

I think that a lot of persons get baptized as Witnesses with a kind of naive view that the organization is more than it really is. This might even be true of new GB members who are asked to join that particular committee of elders. Perhaps they are surprised at the difference between reality and expectation. But I think they are better prepared, since they have already worked at various levels of the organization.

I didn't mean to call myself JW Insider here. I intended to use "The Bible's Advocate" but when I joined someone was making a claim that was easily clarified by someone who had worked directly with members of the GB before. I had worked with members of the GB from 1976 to 1982. I worked directly for a member of the GB from about 1979 to 1982. I planned to tell some of the stories from that period, and therefore called myself "JW Insider" and allowed it to stick, in spite of some unintended implications.

But I mention this because if a person can work with (and around) some of these same persons for a few years, then they are already prepared for an experience that is quite different from the expectation of the average Witness. They have seen them in a bad mood, they have seen them curse and yell, they have seen them make mistakes, they have seen their prejudices, seen them connive, possibly even be dishonest. I have seen all these things among a couple of them, but I'm obviously talking about exceptions to their usual conduct and demeanor. And for MOST of the members that I knew, I never saw any of these things, they always came across as perfect "saints." But I would not have been surprised to learn of a different side, because of what I had seen in a very few others, even if I only saw it rarely.

I also had an advantage of an uncle who was a circuit overseer, and a grandmother and grandfather who seemed to know all the "big shots" from headquarters. (My great grandfather was a Chicago Bible Student who traveled with Russell and spoke at conventions with him.) But most of these relatives were apt to say things like, "Jehovah puts half of us here to test the other half," when referring to some of these same persons. Before going to Bethel, I heard a Circuit Overseer evoke laughter from another by asking, "Can you imagine how the Apostle Paul would have blown up if anyone told him he had to keep all these numbers [records] on everyone?"

So, I probably come at some of these human imperfections from a different perspective than most. I'm hardly surprised at anything. My grandparents who knew Rutherford thought he was sleazy. My table head at Bethel had a personal "hatred" of him. But Russell himself was apparently dishonest, too, sometimes. Both Russell and Rutherford weren't defined by these errors, because their greater goal was to spread the word about the Kingdom hope amidst expectations of the imminent end. And now, we've gotten rid of most of that chronology rhetoric and spend more time highlighting the positive, life-changing aspects of the message. And I see a great value, like a pearl, in the overall set of teachings we stand for. And I do tend to fall back on how the Israelites had asked for a king and got a range of kings, from evil to good, but none perfect, of course.

I am out for the rest of the day without much access, so I won't spend much time revisiting issues already covered. And I know the answers won't be satisfactory anyway. I should also say that I hope you don't lose your spirituality. Many exJWs do. Also, I wouldn't make too much of the fact that I used the word "apostate" when referring to the challenges you offer. I don't think of you as apostate as long as you are in a stage, as you describe, of anger and confusion. That could be understandable. I would hope you could see that there is a beautiful baby in that bathwater before you throw it all out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
9 minutes ago, John H Slaughter said:

That’s understandable. That’s what I’m saying, you’re not alone with your belief. JWinsider (JW) believes it, Srecko (exJW) believes it, and Witness (exJW).

 

You are among the same type of friends that have the same belief not in accordance with scripture. You’re doing fine. There is no need to be angry here.

 

1 Corinthians 12:12-27 New International Version (NIV)

 

Unity and Diversity in the Body

 

12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by[a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

 

Hence I feel the scriptures were / are written for the Anointed, not for the earthly class. 

I feel that only the Anointed should fully understand scripture as they are 'one' with Christ. 

The rest of us are just the other sheep.  :)  I like the scripture about 'Ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' 

The 'Jew' being the Anointed class, the ones clinging being the earthly class. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
49 minutes ago, John H Slaughter said:

You are among the same type of friends that have the same belief not in accordance with scripture. You’re doing fine. There is no need to be angry here.

What?  I'm sorry YOU are wrong.  There was a time when the organization clearly taught that the Body of Christ is comprised of the anointed ones.  It can still be found on their web page.  

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200021176

I might be wrong, but it could be that Allen is back.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Witness which I suspect is you, :) 

Is this rubbish really going to start again. I was following this blog / forum long before I chose to join it, and one reason I didn't join earlier was reading all the horrid stupidity of people saying, x was y, and you must be he, and telling one person that they had three different user names just to give themselves up votes etc etc, 

It is obviously people that are losing a debate / discussion, or people who feel hurt by someone's comments. BUT it does no good to the blog as a whole. Just wastes everyone's time. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
9 hours ago, Arauna said:

Living in the past again?  Now some of them also believed in the Trinity before becoming JWs. Why not go that far back?  

Let me help you out with that link I had provided from your organization's website.  

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200021878#h=1:0

"Also called 144,000; Anointed; Body of Christ; Bride of Christ; Chosen Ones; Elect; Holy Nation; Israel of God; Kingdom Class; Little Flock; New Creation; New Nation; Royal House; Royal Priesthood; Sanctuary Class; Sons of Levi; Spirit Begotten; Spiritual Israel; Spiritual Sons)"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 11/17/2019 at 2:14 AM, Arauna said:

Living in the past again?  Now some of them also believed in the Trinity before becoming JWs. Why not go that far back?  

Actually, @4Jah2me and @Witness are right in this case.

*** w09 10/15 p. 5 par. 10 “Be Aglow With the Spirit” ***
. . . the “other sheep” are not part of the composite body of Christ . . . .

And @Witness is right that this is a difference between the Watchtower teaching and the "theology" that Allen Smith has claimed to believe. And if Allen Smith thought this was right you can best believe that it will also be defended to the nth degree by: @Bogdan11 @John H Slaughter @Alithís Gnosis @DespicableME, @alvi languore insanabili @Grey Reformer @Tom Henry etc., etc., etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Sudden weight gain or loss can be caused by various factors, some of which may indicate underlying health issues. Here are common causes for each: Visit this this site for more knowledgeable information https://phcworld.com/category/fitness/ Causes of Sudden Weight Gain: Fluid Retention (Edema): Caused by conditions like kidney disease, heart failure, or liver disease, leading to swelling in the body. Hypothyroidism: An underactive thyroid can slow metabolism, causing weight gain even without changes in diet or activity. Medication Side Effects: Certain drugs like steroids, antidepressants, or birth control can lead to rapid weight gain. Cushing's Syndrome: Excess cortisol production can cause fat accumulation, particularly in the abdomen, face, and upper back. Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS): Hormonal imbalances related to PCOS can cause weight gain, particularly around the waist. Emotional Eating or Stress: Stress and emotional eating can lead to overeating and weight gain, especially from high-calorie comfort foods. Menopause: Hormonal changes during menopause can lead to weight gain, particularly around the abdomen. Causes of Sudden Weight Loss: Hyperthyroidism: An overactive thyroid increases metabolism, leading to unexplained weight loss despite a normal or increased appetite. Diabetes: Uncontrolled diabetes can cause weight loss due to the body breaking down fat and muscle for energy. Cancer: Certain types of cancer, particularly in the digestive tract, may cause rapid weight loss. Gastrointestinal Disorders: Conditions like Crohn's disease, celiac disease, or IBS may affect nutrient absorption, leading to weight loss. Depression or Anxiety: Mental health conditions can reduce appetite, leading to unintentional weight loss. Chronic Infections: Tuberculosis, HIV, or other chronic infections can lead to significant weight loss as the body fights the infection. Medication Side Effects: Some drugs, such as chemotherapy or certain antidepressants, can cause weight loss as a side effect. If sudden, unexplained weight changes occur, it's important to consult a healthcare professional for proper diagnosis and treatment.
    • Yes, a balanced diet is crucial for maintaining good health. It provides the necessary nutrients, vitamins, and minerals that your body needs to function optimally. A diet rich in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins, and healthy fats can help improve energy levels, support immune function, and reduce the risk of chronic diseases such as heart disease, diabetes, and obesity. Eating a variety of nutrient-dense foods also supports mental well-being and overall vitality. In contrast, poor dietary choices, such as excessive consumption of processed foods, sugars, and unhealthy fats, can lead to health issues and imbalance. Therefore, making mindful and balanced food choices is fundamental for long-term health and well-being. What are the key components of a balanced diet?
    • Eating healthy food is essential for maintaining overall well-being and supporting a balanced lifestyle. For more info about healthy food visit https://phcworld.com/category/healthy-habits/  Incorporating a variety of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins, and healthy fats into your diet can help improve energy levels, boost immunity, and enhance mental clarity. It’s also important to stay hydrated and limit the intake of processed foods, sugars, and unhealthy fats. Making mindful food choices and establishing a balanced eating routine can lead to long-term health benefits and a more vibrant life. Whats your favourite food ?
    • Should Christians place greater trust in human-created philosophies or should a genuine Christian ground their desires from the scriptural perspective on the frailties of the mind and body? Psychology often falls short when it clashes with personal beliefs, regardless of the intentions behind it. James 1:14, Romans 12: 2 It also acts as a guide to clarify misconceptions, such as labeling "shunning" as an evil act rather than recognizing it as a corrective measure or a personal choice. This suggests a misunderstanding on the part of experts, more so than scholars, regarding psychological matters. The forum is structured around Christian ethics.
    • https://phcworld.com/category/health-and-wellness/ The Dendera Zodiac is a fascinating ancient Egyptian artifact that holds significant historical and astronomical value. Discovered in the Hathor Temple at Dendera, it is a carved bas-relief dating back to the Roman period of Egypt, around 50 BCE. This intricate depiction of the night sky features a circular representation of constellations and celestial bodies, showcasing the ancient Egyptians' advanced understanding of astronomy. The Dendera Zodiac is notable for its detailed depiction of zodiac signs, including Aries, Taurus, Gemini, and others. It also includes images of deities and mythological figures associated with these constellations. The artifact offers valuable insights into how the ancient Egyptians viewed the cosmos and how they integrated their religious and mythological beliefs with their understanding of the stars. Despite its importance, the Dendera Zodiac has been the subject of various interpretations and theories regarding its exact purpose and symbolism. Its rich artistry and complex design continue to captivate scholars and enthusiasts alike, making it a key piece in the study of ancient Egyptian science and religion.
  • Members

    No members to show

  • Recent Status Updates

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.5k
    • Total Posts
      159.1k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,744
    • Most Online
      1,797

    Newest Member
    Kazadi kasombola
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.