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Here's another one,  @TrueTomHarley

 

 

He snuck out on Sunday morning to go to a liquor store (bypassing many others stores close by) out of state to spend almost $1000 bucks on whiskey. He should have been doing 'pastoral' duties that Sunday morning in the Headquarters where he lives and runs the place.

Instead he dressed up in disguise; a trenchcoat, tennis shoes, and a low billed hat to go out of state at a special 'spiritual' time to get his liquor instead of dressing up in a suit with other brothers and going like normal, or having those under him purchase it.

Many critical thinkers here believe that it belies a dishonesty. He could have picked a better time and place, and manner of dress to get his 12 bottles of high end scotch, at the least. Also, the manner of his purchase suggests a bigger problem, not only with him, but within the compound itself, if this is allowed, while they preach the opposite to the masses.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Witness said:

Here's another one,  @TrueTomHarley

 

 

 

 

 

"What an astonishing bit of footage"  Really? The man going out to the liquor store to buy some whiskey? 

"This is not how Tony Morris would like to be seen by Jehovah's Witnesses" Why on earth not? It's more like Lloyd Evans doesn't want to see Anthony Morris like this, because Lloyd Evans has some weird ideas about Br. Morris, and now his weird ideas have been shattered. Now he knows Anthony Morris is just like anyone else. Surprise!

Grow up Lloyd!

P.S.

There are Sunday afternoon meetings too.

 

 

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Well, Mr. Morris has all of his personal needs met, plus available “ice cream money” to use as he pleases.  The general message by the GB to JWs world-wide is to give, give, give to the organization; and many do, out of their personal needs.  Many gauge their livelihood around what they can give to the organization, with nothing to spare.  

    Hello guest!
- Those who are accepted for special full-time service at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses all subscribe to a vow of poverty, as have all the members of the Governing Body and all the other members of the Bethel family there. This does not mean that they live a drab life, without any comforts. But it does mean that they share, without partiality, the modest provisions of food, shelter, and expense reimbursement that are made for all in such service.

Nothing modest, drab or uncomfortable in $900.00 worth of liquor.  Perhaps he is sharing with Bethelites? As if that is a good idea.   

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"Dependence on Alchohol".... hmmm.

Did you see how much HARD liquor he was buying? (not just wine)

Where did he get such money? I thought he made a "Vow of poverty" as part of the Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses?

What about his responsibility toward setting a good example for 8 million JW's? Is his thirst for alcohol more important than the stumbling block he may have just caused to millions of former alcoholics that are recovering.

Where are his perceptive powers? His discernment of his responsibility?

Did this video show LIMITS? 

 

 

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"We are not  inspired but we are guided" .... by Spirit  (FireWater as would American Indians said in cowboy movies)

Some Bethel people has rich relatives, renting apartments, houses, has some spared money from aside.... and similar.

Vow of poverty is funny instrument, and why to apply that on people who has nothing? IF they really has nothing?! Why somebody who came to Bethel to work and is single and poor, has poor family, no real estate, no money, only clothes on him/her.... WHY would such person to be obligated to give Vow of Poverty?? What is purpose of such Vow? How looks like this WT "Vow"? What Bethel member promises-declare in that Vow?

Mr Tony's coming to liquor store to buy so many bottles of strong beverage proves that he is mere imperfect human who running Corporations with other humans, similar to him. This showed how his job is hard sometimes and he need meaning to relax sometimes, and to drink glass of whiskey is helpful sometimes. Or to seat alone in bar seat with glass of Cognac is what man need sometimes, too.

But bar is more expensive. So, in fact he spare money (donation or his own) by shopping in big market, in big package, on Sunday when prices are little down.  

:)))

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In late 1990, i guess,  i was in Vienna Bethel, had a little role in summer Convention Drama, so two or three days of recording. In that time they had one part of basement full of various sort of beer. I do not remember prices, it depends on what sort of beer in glass bottle (0,5 liter) you choose. But to us, from Croatia,  that was very surprising. For some boys (brothers) gladly surprise. :))  

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As Tom Harley said, they might soon obtain a picture with him on the toilet seat.  Give the man some privacy. Jesus and his disciples had wine with their meal.  Wine was like water in the Mediterranean regions. Paul told Timothy to take some wine instead of water. 

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1 hour ago, Melinda Mills said:

As Tom Harley said, they might soon obtain a picture with him on the toilet seat.  Give the man some privacy. Jesus and his disciples had wine with their meal.  Wine was like water in the Mediterranean regions. Paul told Timothy to take some wine instead of water. 

This type of “hit piece” reporting ( it doesn’t matter who the target is) has a way of resolving into nothing.

(Now, if I should see him in there every single day........)

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15 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

Where did he get such money? I thought he made a "Vow of poverty" as part of the Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses?

 

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Vow of poverty is funny instrument, and why to apply that on people who has nothing? 

There is something very childish about these remarks, as though one has gone on a "starvation diet" and his enemies later come along and are upset that he has not starved to death.

It is very very unlikely, I think, that dedicated funds account for his spree. If you have worked with Jehovah's Witnesses, you simply know this.

He co-directs an organization directly benefiting 8 million persons, and indirectly benefiting many more. That will include friends in financial high places; those sort of friends are not stingy.

In Knorr's time, he being the one to funnel vendor business here and there, some of those vendors would lavish gifts on him. I've been told (anecdotal evidence - @JW Insider will know things like this) that he had given him (I think by a paper manufacturer) a Cadillac or two, which mostly just sat there in the Bethel garage. At the time, such was standard practice anywhere, and since many members of Congress enriched themselves that way, laws were passed against it. Not sure if they were passed to dissuade anyone other than Congress, though.

I appeal to JWI for facts, even though he corrected me when I wrote that the GB rode in the wheelwells of airplanes so as to get from Point A to Point B as cheaply as possible. 'Nah, they don't,' he said.

Have parallel things happened in this day with technology vendors? Dunno. Maybe. What! is anyone other than Lloyd so stupid as to think he is guzzling himself away after a day's work pondering God? It may even be intended for entertaining those vendors themselves, who, when they come calling, distrust the Kool-Aid.

Now, the GB doesn't do business deals, like Knorr did. They have them isolated whereby they simply think about God, like the apostles in the first century who didn't want to be distracted by "waiting on tables." So that suggesting doesn't fit so closely as in might with Knorr. But still...

Every exchange I have had with Lloyd reveals him to be a pretty nasty piece of work. That does not mean that he will not have plenty of allies, for he gets the job done. But he has an affinity for bullying and taunting gifs. I used him as a window into the world of opposers, but I ultimately dropped him from my feed, because I was too tempted to answer him. Every exchange shows him up as bullying, but it gets wearing even though I like to show him up in that way. There really is something to that circuit assembly part geared to teens (with spillover for adults, probably, as good general council) about that kid who replied to one "apostate" because he just got mad at the truth being maligned & and he was reasoned with that it might not be such a good idea.

Here is my latest (ideally my last) episode with this character:

    Hello guest!

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8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

In Knorr's time, he being the one to funnel vendor business here and there, some of those vendors would lavish gifts on him. I've been told (anecdotal evidence - @JW Insider will know things like this) that he had given him (I think by a paper manufacturer) a Cadillac or two, which mostly just sat there in the Bethel garage. . . .  I appeal to JWI for facts. . . .

I am still under my own self-imposed gag order with respect to joining in discussions of anything controversial that might affect anyone's view of Witness doctrine and Watchtower practices, past and present.

Also, I have not listened to Lloyd Evans for more than 5 minutes, total. I heard he did a fair job on the Montana CSA trial, but I have only read the court documents. I know nothing of this liquor store picture/video, and am embarrassed to comment in a topic with this name. I go into a liquor store almost weekly myself because the owner lets me take about 30 strong cardboard boxes every Saturday night or Sunday morning. Once every month or so, I'll feel bad about taking advantage, so I buy a bottle of wine. I need the boxes because I'm in the middle of culling out literally thousands of books from my shelves and storage, and other things from my garage and basement, that I've been donating and tossing. Hundreds of these books were given to my wife when she was the school district's Director of Second Languages, ESL, and Curriculum. They lavished sets of books on her because she made decisions that would mean tens of thousands of dollars for these vendors. I have no direct knowledge of Knorr's gifts or offers from vendors, if any, but I've heard about similar rumors.

Drinking stories were always rampant at Bethel. There were always stories of higher-ups getting drunk, but this was likely fueled by younger Bethelites who were looking for excuses for their own behavior. The cooks who worked an after-dinner late shift only available to "higher ups" had the most consistent stories, but I still saw signs of exaggeration. But I have seen young Bethelites get drunk, and it was shameful and embarrassing. (For some 19 and 20 year olds, Bethel would have been their first real experience with alcohol.) I have seen housekeepers gathering liquor bottles from rooms and the sum total would have surprised anyone. I was sometimes surprised that people were periodically sent home for stealing and immorality, but never (that I knew of) for excessive drinking.

This does not mean that excessive drinking was ever condoned. I heard plenty of good scriptural counsel against excessive drinking from the Bethel "morning worship" following the discussion of the day's text. 

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4 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Jesus and his disciples had wine with their meal.  Wine was like water in the Mediterranean regions. Paul told Timothy to take some wine instead of water. 

The wine in Jesus’ day was mostly “peasant wine”, harvest wine.  It was barely fermented and had to be cut with water to make it palatable because of the lack of filtering.  Wine today is not the same wine as thousands of years ago.  The fermentation process has come a long way since then.   

 

 

 

I wonder what the reaction would be if a JW happened to walk into a liquor store for a bottle of whatever…and found his “neighbor” from the kingdom hall buying up over $900.00 worth of whisky and other alcohol, on any day of the week.  My, how the rumors would fly. They fly if a man offers an unmarried woman a ride to the kingdom hall.  But something like this, would most likely catch the attention of the elders who would be moved to make a “shepherding call”. 

But in this case, a GB member, who had his opinion in the creation of the opening video below, is given all sorts of excuses for his actions. 

I can’t believe JWs do not see the hypocrisy. JWs don't WANT to see it.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Also, I have not listened to Lloyd Evans for more than 5 minutes, total. 

That’s 5 more minutes than me. It is very hard for me to indulge in these podcasts because the host is almost always obnoxious, petulant, or dull beyond words.

Reading I do much of, where one can cover the ground much faster and can even skim for something new if the bulk of it is drivel, as it often is.

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Internet sources.

NOT JW explanation:

1) Furthermore, another perspective motivating people to take the vow of poverty is the sheer inequality in the world. Rather than simply acknowledging the existence of poverty, individuals who take the vow gain first-hand experience, an experience that may better equip them to aid the poor in the future.

2) A vow, taken by members of some religious orders to renounce all personal property; everything they possess being used for the common good.

JW explanation:

What is involved in serving under the simple Vow? It means that those in special full-
time service have formally entered into an arrangement in which they agree to expend their full-
time efforts toward the advancement of a religious goal. It also means that they are doing so
without any expectation of being paid, as one would be in a secular setting. Members can enter
into this arrangement because the Order sees to it that each member's basic necessities of life are
cared for. Although the term "poverty" is used in the Vow, this does not mean that the
Governing Body is asking you to relinquish ownership in property that you now possess or that
you may acquire in the future. Rather, this expression means that you agree to forego the
expectation of being paid for your endeavors while serving in the Order and that you also agree
to not seek gainful employment while serving in the Order. As those of you who have devoted
many years to special full-time service can verify, this is the arrangement under which special
full-time servants have been living for many years, even prior to the time when this arrangement
was formally documented through the signing of a previous vow.
Concerning point six of the Vow, sources of income other than work are not affected by
being under this Vow. It does not pertain to income such as interest from bank accounts or
bonds, dividends from stocks, rent received from property owned by the member, and other

Page 4 of 4
income unrelated to present personal efforts. It does not apply to gifts, inheritances, or
other
unsolicited benefits, which a member of the Order may receive from time to time. Any of you
who are receiving income from possessions are not required to turn these monies over to the
Order, although you should be aware that (his income is no doubt subject to taxation.
In summary, reading prayerfully and signing the Vow does not mean that you cannot own
property or that you have determined to donate all your material possesions to the Order. Rather,
it documents that you have agreed to serve Jehovah as a special full-time servant, serving in
cooperation with others in the Order, without expectation of financial gain. and that you have
determined to refrain from any gainful activity while in Jehovah's special full-time service.
We are pleased to present you with this direction from the Governing Body and trust that
this letter answers any questions you may have. However, please feel free to write to the branch
office if you have any remaining inquiries.

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@Matthew9969....  I am very surprised what thoughts normal actions of our GB brothers, in many JW heads release to document!  I know that from the worldwide "Yellow-press."
Some is sad to read ;-(

PS. The memorial  "drink"  is  always  red-wine... ❤♥☼♥❤

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Coming back to this video. I had time to watch it again and noticed that the cart that we see in the store has a lot more in it than what Br. Morris is seen putting into his car. The box he puts in his car could hold a max 6 bottles. The cart in the store has at least 13 bottles from what I could see. Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps that wasn't even his cart?

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28 minutes ago, Anna said:

Coming back to this video. I had time to watch it again and noticed that the cart that we see in the store has a lot more in it than what Br. Morris is seen putting into his car. The box he puts in his car could hold a max 6 bottles. The cart in the store has at least 13 bottles from what I could see. Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps that wasn't even his cart?

"I see you're a fan of scotch, do you know anything about Irish whiskey?", says the man videotaping Mr. Morris.  Why would he say that if he hadn't seen what was in his cart, since Mr. Morris wasn't holding a bottle in his hand?  And if that wasn't his cart, where was it, in the wine aisle?

In his email sent to Lloyd, he described how he removed the bottles from the boxes at the checkout.  "My impression was that he had done this many times before.  He removed the bottles from their boxes before going to the register, a security protocol at this store.  Also, he had them throw away the individual boxes, which to me shows he wasn't purchasing them as gifts".  

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23 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Frustrating job you have there

Frustrating at times, but more despairing than frustrating.  You do know what "sackcloth" is, don't you?  Rev 11:1-3  

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On 4/2/2019 at 9:13 AM, JW Insider said:

Drinking stories were always rampant at Bethel. There were always stories of higher-ups getting drunk, but this was likely fueled by younger Bethelites who were looking for excuses for their own behavior.

 

On 4/2/2019 at 9:13 AM, JW Insider said:

I was sometimes surprised that people were periodically sent home for stealing and immorality, but never (that I knew of) for excessive drinking.

Somehow these two quotes must have a connection. :)

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Witness said:

Somehow these two quotes must have a connection. :)

Nothing specific enough to be of interest to anyone looking for gossip. I think most people know that young Bethelites got in all sorts of trouble. For a few months under Knorr, there seemed to be someone sent home for 'conduct unbecoming a Bethelite' every week, sometimes two or three on the same day, and sometimes more than once in the same week. But this was when Knorr was handling the "morning worship" every day in 1976 and a bit of 1977. After Knorr was too sick, the daily text "morning worship" rotated and I never remember anyone else announcing dismissals, except maybe Milton Henschel when he wanted to make a point about the specific type of misconduct. Knorr was always very specific and it became counsel for the rest of the family, even if it took the form of a long rant that could even make you late for work.

So what I meant was that I never remember Knorr berating anyone for drunkenness or dismissing anyone for it. The dismissals that came afterward were not announced to the whole family so I have no idea what most of them were for, unless there was a clear rumor to go with it.

Back in those years almost everyone could still drink at age 19, and there were only a few 18 year olds on construction and painting crews mostly. It wasn't until 1984 that all states went to 21. But there was a time when it was easier to buy liquor in NJ (and they moved the age down from 19 to 18 in 1980). Some Bethelites would take trips from NY to NJ to stock up and then bring it back to share (or resell) to others.

Drinking was much more common than I expected, but I am not trying to give the impression that there was rampant drunkenness. It's just that you could tell that some young brothers were away from their families for the first time, had a measure of independence and privacy at Bethel, and there were several obvious mistakes made. The parties in some rooms made worldly neighbors complain from a couple of the buildings nestled in between apartments that the Society did not own. I knew a Bethelite who got in trouble for this, but he was not sent home.

The rumor about "higher-ups" is not directly related, but it was related to the "gifts" of prime cut steaks that were sent periodically from Watchtower Farms to Brooklyn. These were never served to the Bethel family, but I knew one of the cooks who was sworn to secrecy about who got them and how often. There are always perks in any organization for those at a certain level of responsibility, and this was not a "Governing Body" thing. It was more of a long time seniority thing, which will necessarily (sometimes) overlap. Since these steaks were served semi-privately as specially cooked meals, they could be served with alcohol, but some brothers were said to have already served themselves alcohol before coming down to get their meal. Certain brothers became known for this behavior, even to the point of using very foul language to the cooks and waiters. If you want to keep a secret the last thing you want to do is curse out a cook or a waiter.

Anyway, the basic idea, which I could not say because I don't know, was that Knorr knew that some high-seniority people had been known to misbehave in this area, and it might have produced some leniency when younger ones had this trouble.

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4 hours ago, Witness said:

"I see you're a fan of scotch, do you know anything about Irish whiskey?", says the man videotaping Mr. Morris.  Why would he say that if he hadn't seen what was in his cart, since Mr. Morris wasn't holding a bottle in his hand? 

Because the man was assuming that was Morris's cart,  and Morris responding is no proof it was his cart, after all he was in the whiskey isle and looking at the whiskey. His cart could have been anywhere.

4 hours ago, Witness said:

He removed the bottles from their boxes before going to the register, a security protocol at this store.  Also, he had them throw away the individual boxes, which to me shows he wasn't purchasing them as gifts

Like I said, he only had one box that he was putting into the car. One box that holds a max 6 bottles. Where did all the other whiskey bottles go that were in the said cart? Even at the checkout, where Morris is seen getting his card/money out to pay, there are only up to 6 bottles on the counter, and his cart is empty.

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

Because the man was assuming that was Morris's cart,  and Morris responding is no proof it was his cart, after all he was in the whiskey isle and looking at the whiskey. His cart could have been anywhere.

Then there were two buyers  in the store with carts of MaCallan whiskey at the same time.  The cart near Tony Morris lost its original owner.  Tony Morris wandered away from his cart left in another aisle.  I suppose anything is possible. :)

 

 

2 hours ago, Anna said:

Like I said, he only had one box that he was putting into the car. One box that holds a max 6 bottles. Where did all the other whiskey bottles go that were in the said cart? Even at the checkout, where Morris is seen getting his card/money out to pay, there are only up to 6 bottles on the counter, and his cart is empty.

I think the best way to settle it, is for you to make a comment under Lloyd's video and ask him to email the man who filmed Mr. Morris, with the questions you are asking.   

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Is it my Imagination or does the reflection from the 5th from Blue Label upper bottle show Witness dead drunk passed out on the floor?

Since there are no quotation marks around the word Witness, and my attention wasn't drawn to your comment with "@Witness", which JW are you referring to?  

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9 hours ago, Witness said:

I think the best way to settle it, is for you to make a comment under Lloyd's video and ask him to email the man who filmed Mr. Morris, with the questions you are asking.   

Better still, invite him to your home for supper.

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Quote @JW Insider Drinking stories were always rampant at Bethel. There were always stories of higher-ups getting drunk, but this was likely fueled by younger Bethelites who were looking for excuses for their own behavior. The cooks who worked an after-dinner late shift only available to "higher ups" had the most consistent stories, but I still saw signs of exaggeration. But I have seen young Bethelites get drunk, and it was shameful and embarrassing. (For some 19 and 20 year olds, Bethel would have been their first real experience with alcohol.) I have seen housekeepers gathering liquor bottles from rooms and the sum total would have surprised anyone. I was sometimes surprised that people were periodically sent home for stealing and immorality, but never (that I knew of) for excessive drinking.

I don't even have to go looking for faults in the Org. People seem quite happy to reveal the faults on here.. It's kinda funny then that some folks say i have an agenda.  :)  Drunks in Bethal, shows the lack of spiritual wisdom doesn't it ?  Where is God's 'guidance there ? 

As for the GB pretending to be 'poor', i bet they have country mansions for summer holidays :) 

 

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The rumor about "higher-ups" is not directly related, but it was related to the "gifts" of prime cut steaks that were sent periodically from Watchtower Farms to Brooklyn. These were never served to the Bethel family, but I knew one of the cooks who was sworn to secrecy about who got them and how often. There are always perks in any organization for those at a certain level of responsibility, and this was not a "Governing Body" thing. It was more of a long time seniority thing, which will necessarily (sometimes) overlap. Since these steaks were served semi-privately as specially cooked meals, they could be served with alcohol, but some brothers were said to have already served themselves alcohol before coming down to get their meal. Certain brothers became known for this behavior, even to the point of using very foul language to the cooks and waiters. If you want to keep a secret the last thing you want to do is curse out a cook or a waiter

My my, it gets even better.  Imagine telling all this to a new bible study. 

But of course everyone is equal, oh wait a minute we have 'higher ups' getting prime steak, served privately. 

After all 'There are always perks in any organization for those at a certain level of responsibility'. 

And brothers are all loving and kind and very spiritual at bethel, oh no there are brothers that get drunk and swear at the cooks and waiters. 

It's shows itself as being just another big organisation with those at the top living off of those at the bottom. 

No wonder the GB do not receive God's holy spirit. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote @JW Insider Drinking stories were always rampant 

Didn’t that boy had turned over a new leaf?

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But I have seen young Bethelites get drunk, and it was shameful and embarrassing. (For some 19 and 20 year olds, Bethel would have been their first real experience with alcohol.)

Ah, well. Kids is kids. Ideally, they grow up.

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Guest Indiana

We’re still buzzing over a video that Lloyd Evans posted of Jehovah’s Witnesses Governing Body member Anthony Morris III buying a cartload of expensive hooch.

And now Lloyd, Mark O’Donnell, and other ex-JW activists have had a chance to talk about Tony’s March 31 trip to the liquor store in a group video chat that we found fascinating and thought you would too.

About 15 minutes in, Mark reads from a letter that a Witness received when they asked a Governing Body “Helper” for some help understanding what Tony was doing buying about $850 of Macallans Scotch (and throwing away the gift boxes) at 11 am on a Sunday morning in the New Jersey town of Ramsey about 25 miles from JW world headquarters in Warwick, New York. (Not only was it a large purchase of expensive Scotch, but Governing Body members like Morris take a poverty vow and wouldn’t normally have $850 to spend on whisky. Also, Morris in particular is known for his imperious and judgmental stands on the way Witnesses should comport themselves and even what they should wear, so whatever he wanted the alcohol for, it’s just not a good look.)

Here’s what the helper wrote to the Witness about Tony’s adventure:

Dear [redacted],
While I appreciate the concern of the brother who “witnessed” this, I also have some concerns about the assumptions made. Please keep in mind, there are a number of circumstances that others may not be aware of. For example, using the purchase in connection with visitors, graduates from Gilead or the Branch Committee School. Also, over what period of time will these [bottles] be used? As far as dedicated funds, some of our brothers had businesses prior to coming to Bethel. I will not get too personal on Brother Morris’s circumstances in that regard. It does point out that our dear brothers are a “theatrical spectacle,” so please assume the best of our dear brother. Thank you.

The group in the video has some really smart things to say about this response, so take a look.

In the meantime, we’ve sent our own official request for a statement to the Watchtower’s Office of Public Information after chatting with a couple of folks on the phone in Warwick, who were polite, cheery, and helpful. We sure hope someone gets back to us with a response to our inquiry.

    Hello guest!

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Holy spirit is God’s free gift to those who sincerely seek it. It can enhance not only your abilities but also your desire to do your best in his service. “God is the one that, for the sake of his good pleasure, is acting within you in order for you both to will and to act.” The precious gift of holy spirit, coupled with our earnest efforts to keep “a tight grip on the word of life,” will allow us to “keep working out [our] own salvation with fear and trembling.”—Phil. 2:12, 13, 16.

With complete confidence in God’s spirit, then, pour your heart into every assignment, become skilled at what you are given to do, and look to Jehovah for assistance. (Jas. 1:5) He will give you what you need to understand his Word, cope with life’s problems, and preach the good news. “Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you,” and this includes receiving holy spirit. (Luke 11:9, 13) Indeed, keep on supplicating Jehovah that you may be like faithful ones—both ancient and modern—who were guided by God’s holy spirit.

WE  ALL  CAN  PLEASE  JEHOVAH  AT  HIS  HOLY SPIRIT !   ❤♥☼♥❤

SATAN does a good job and most people succumb to his sly traps anyway.
Give away so much time for a trivial topic ....??

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8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It's shows itself as being just another big organisation with those at the top living off of those at the bottom. 

In fact, John, you are being fed a pack of lies, and I cannot believe that you are gullible enough to fall for it.

During my years at Bethel, two GB members came down with pneumonia. Nobody could figure out why, because they had perfectly good space heaters for their pup tents. It turned out that, even though the temperature had been in the teens for days, they had kept them off so as not to waste dedicated funds.

Three of them got hand fungus from the hours they spent every day on foot-washing detail.

Two of them subsisted on honey and locusts. Four pressed their clothes with bricks so as not to waste electricity on ironing.

One of them winced when I said ‘hello’ and I learned afterwards that he only says “greetings” because “hello” has “hell” in it.

He winced even more and permanently injured his back carrying my bags to my room when I arrived, even though I told him I had brought my anvil collection.

One of them, when I had a flat tire, gave me a wheel off his car, and then had to walk through the sleet to the airport, where he strapped himself to a wing of the plane to save money and flew to Portugal to serve as keynote speaker there.

I visited Brother Morris in his tent, and he offered me a cup of coffee. As I sipped mine he diluted his to make it last longer.

These brothers make more self-sacrifice in a day than you do in a year.

 

 

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Just now, Space Merchant said:

So what is with the whole tinfoil-hattery regarding someone buying some wine? Especially around this time of year, stuff like this is no surprise.

It is WDS in its full blown infection mode.

Much ado about completely NOTHING.

All AGENDA driven thinking is devoid of reason and common sense ... this "Bottlegate" is just this month's classic example.

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@James Thomas Rook Jr. All that because someone allegedly bought wine? Remembrance of our Lord is, literally, around the corner.

At this point you can expect someone to dress up as Jesus buying wine somewhere.

That being said, how else did such ones prep for the Lord's day before if this is something new?

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19 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

@James Thomas Rook Jr. All that because someone allegedly bought wine? Remembrance of our Lord is, literally, around the corner.

At this point you can expect someone to dress up as Jesus buying wine somewhere.

That being said, how else did such ones prep for the Lord's day before if this is something new?

It probably wasn't wine but expensive Scotch.

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Four pressed their clothes with bricks so as not to waste electricity on ironing.

amazing method :)) Did their women know and support such inventive idea ? Did four of them ironing clothes in this manner to other people in Bethel too, and to their wife's especially? What were the reactions/responds/ from bro/sis?

Did Bethel elders, Committee introduce this as standard for ironing and reject electric machines? Did they buy bricks of all shapes and of various weights, or consider to buy some concrete bricks?   

This stories come to be LEGENDS? And this is how false come to be true :)))

Thanks for this  stories Tom.

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On 4/1/2019 at 4:43 PM, Anna said:

What an astonishing bit of footage"  Really? The man going out to the liquor store to buy some whiskey? 

I got about a minute into it, maybe a minute and a half, and I noticed three things about it.

1) Lloyd is extremely pleased with himself.

2) In his brief exchange about pants, where he somehow caught Bro Morris on the phone, (just THAT says something - that he takes a call from an unknown “brother” with unspecified concerns, instead of it being handled well down the line by some support staff) the latter comes across as warm, engaging, and not in the slightest bit full of himself (as Lloyd DOES seem) - “No, call the branch,” he laughs, “and I’d better not see you guys wearing them,” he quips, and “You’re kidding me, right?” It was impossible not to warm to the guy.

3) Lloyd’s cooing concern of how difficult it is for an ordinary person, such as he, to speak with a GB member (notwithstanding that he had just done it), as though an 8:000,000 to 1 ratio meant nothing at all. In fact, apparently it is an 8 billion ratio to 1 that he expects anybody to be able to waltz through, since he said at the outset that he is not among the 8 million. 

The guy is too infantile to endure, and I got no further. I mean, this thing runs 17 minutes.

4) (Yeah, I know I said 3, but I thought of another) @Witness ‘s ridiculous assumption that she landed a major blow. “Here’s one for you, TTH,” she says, with no doubt whatsoever that I am going to clear the calendar and patiently analyze it, doubtless running it through several times so that all of her insinuations sink in. @Witness, who I simply asked a couple of questions of, and who thereafter regarded me as her star pupil for a time, and expressed such disappointment when she found that it was not so. I mean, this is a very strange woman. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I got about a minute into it, maybe a minute and a half, and I noticed three things about it.

... Doya think it might have something to do with your attention span being about a minute and a half?

You have freely admitted not reading MANY things all the way through, not viewing videos all the way through, etc. ... or not viewing something because you thought it might be infected with a virus .... many times.

I think I see a pattern here.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The guy is too infantile to endure, and I got no further. I mean, this thing runs 17 minutes.

YIKES!

Perhaps you can schedule it for some day when you are not washing your socks!

 

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

TTH: “The guy is too infantile to endure, and I got no further. I mean, this thing runs 17 minutes.”

The point is that that in 17 minutes I can read 20 times as much, without having to endure an unpleasant personality.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Doya think it might have something to do with your attention span being about a minute and a half?

No. I think it has something to do with his being that way.

Taunting me, when I mentioned that I read plenty of non-JW material, he asked: “Which of the three major atheist books do you find the most compelling?”

I replied: “Which of Dickens’ novels do you find the most compelling? Which of the Greek tragedies do you find the most compelling?”

The shallow idiot. And I should watch him for 17 minutes when he is too lazy to put his information into written form, the way every intelligent person on the planet has done since the beginning of history? That’s why he is crying so about being denied the “right” to steal Bethel’s content so as to put it into his own framed context—he’s too dull to describe it himself as any credible chronicler must do.

I have you to do that, and following the thread with some less biased people who CAN suffer through it, I can pretty well piece things together.

Call it “forensic research.” Scientists do it all the time and we are called dodos if we do not eat up every word.

( I don’t think I have done the virus thing. I may have, but I normally walk right into those things and then spend two weeks at Best Buy while they operate.)

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3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“Here’s one for you, TTH,” she says, with no doubt whatsoever that I am going to clear the calendar and patiently analyze it, doubtless running it through several times so that all of her insinuations sink in. @Witness, who I simply asked a couple of questions of, and who thereafter regarded me as her star pupil for a time, and expressed such disappointment when she found that it was not so. I mean, this is a very strange woman. 

I can’t located it now, but you had singled me out as one who posts disgusting slanderous videos full of lies targeting the organization; which, if you don’t listen to any of them makes me wonder how you come to that conclusion.  

You seem to mention me frequently in your sarcastic ramblings and sadly, I fell into the same game by attaching your name to the initial post under this thread.  For that, I am disappointed in myself.  

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@TrueTomHarley TTH, the man who writes books and makes fun of everyone else. The man who thinks he can just brush over everything and everyone by his stupid remarks. Make people laugh then they will forget. 

Is that the latest idea from the GB ? Grow up Tom. Take on some responsibility, you are 'supposed' to be servant of God after all. :) 

Well you probably think you are. But you seem to lack patience and self control. Very picky in what you will watch and listen to and read. 

So how do you learn anything ? By only reading the things which you feel will please you ?  A bit unbalanced ?

But then it seems JW 's have to be unbalanced to stay in the Org without knowing the truth about it. 

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9 minutes ago, Witness said:

I fell into the same game by attaching your name to the initial post under this thread.  For that, I am disappointed in myself.  

Okay. Good to call a truce on that, I guess. I’ll try to hold back as well.

You must understand that this is a site that purports to be a gathering spot for JWs, therefore I do have a sense (possibly unwise) of “defending my turf.”

I would not behave that way were I on a site that does not purport to be a gathering spot for JWs.

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4 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Okay. Good to call a truce on that, I guess. I’ll try to hold back as well.

You must understand that this is a site that purports to be a gathering spot for JWs, therefore I do have a sense (possibly unwise) of “defending my turf.”

I would not behave that way were I on a site that does not purport to be a gathering spot for JWs.

I thought the JW site was the Private Club. I thought this one was for any one to comment on.

Are you sure you're not an Elder ? Higher rank maybe ? 

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4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

and who thereafter regarded me as her star pupil for a time, and expressed such disappointment when she found that it was not so.

JWs tend to strive to become "star pupils" of 8 men who have gained control over "Bible teachings", a term you have used.  They have gained control over all JWs as their head; yet, only Jesus is our Head.  I would hope each JW would become a star pupil of Jesus Christ.  Matt 20:25-28; 1 Cor 1:12,13   If that was the truly the desire of a JW, it would not be long before one would realize that the "turf" he or she was once defending was based on the teachings of men other than the teachings of Christ.  Under those circumstances, one becomes a defender of truth in Jesus Christ.  

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10 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It would be hypocritical to suggest someone’s opinion in this forum should natter more or above others. I recall a person by AllenSmith34 that didn’t get that consideration. Especially by people like “witness” that complained to the Librarian, I would imagine for his/her style of commenting on realistic views from opposers that want to command an audience but are too weak to accept criticism, from their misapplied views, and supporting false images thereof, and yet believe in their hearts, they are Christian.I guess the same can be side about Morris in a liquor store shopping for “spirits” that are NOT against any scriptural law other than the effect it takes after over-consumption. Then there is scriptural responsibility.The fact this has come about on this particular month reminds me of Alastor

 

 

Criticise away Kid you know you love it.  I'm sure we can all take it. 

Do all your pedophile Elders and congregants think they are Christians too ?  And all those that worship your GB, do they think they are Christians ? Get real Kid, see the truth in all of it.  Come down out of the clouds. 

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32 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It would be hypocritical to suggest someone’s opinion in this forum should natter more or above others. I recall a person by AllenSmith34 that didn’t get that consideration. Especially by people like “witness” that complained to the Librarian, 

Whoops.  You said once, "who is this Allen Smith?"  I never complained about you to the Librarian, Allen, although I know you most likely turned me in for something.  

 

And....this is extremely off topic.  

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On 4/5/2019 at 11:47 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

Now let's get this POST back on track. Morris, a liquor store, and why opposers think Morris is an alcoholic without 100% proof, 

Yeah! once again, the Terminator, brash as he is, nails it.

I like this reproduced letter, and judging from the wording, I even imagine I know which helper wrote it:

While I appreciate the concern of the brother who “witnessed” this, I also have some concerns about the assumptions made. Please keep in mind, there are a number of circumstances that others may not be aware of. For example, using the purchase in connection with visitors, graduates from Gilead or the Branch Committee School. Also, over what period of time will these [bottles] be used? As far as dedicated funds, some of our brothers had businesses prior to coming to Bethel. I will not get too personal on Brother Morris’s circumstances in that regard. It does point out that our dear brothers are a “theatrical spectacle,” so please assume the best of our dear brother. Thank you.

One can be forgiven for imagining @Jack Ryan is having steamy sex over in his domain, so orgasmic is he over this. He has posted TWELVE (at least) separate topics about this!

He is among the ones (those who have gone atheistic) who lectures everyone else about his superior skills of critical thinking. And yet he so clearly—you couldn’t ask for a better example—lets his wishful thinking drag him along as with hooks in his jaws. He leads with his heart, not with his head at all.

Look, IF the brother was a deadbeat flatout drunkard on someone else’s dime, then yes, this is a video that would be consistent with it. But BECAUSE there exists such a video, the reverse is not by any means true. Far more likely is it that one of the factors the Bethel helper mentions is the reality.

Anybody who knows how to think knows this is so, and yet Jack does not know it. He knows what he wants to think, and that is enough for him to fit any circumstance into his foregone conclusion. And yet he would boast of his “critical thinking” skills.

“While I appreciate the concern of the brother who “witnessed” this, I also have some concerns about the assumptions made. Please keep in mind, there are a number of circumstances that others may not be aware of,” the helper says.

No alcoholic could guzzle liquor the way Jack guzzles assumptions. And yet he would tell us that he has broken away from religion and has learned to use his intellect!

He is either incredibly deceitful or incredibly stupid. Take your pick,

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On 4/4/2019 at 6:18 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

It’s like a former Bethel member giving up insinuations and then, say, but really, I don’t know the reason why they were dismissed, it’s my assumption they were for that reason. That’s hilarious.

I referred specifically to a period of time from mid 1976 to mid-1977 when I saw drunkenness and saw persons getting in trouble for drunkenness. During that time the reasons for weekly dismissals were announced by Knorr from "morning worship" which included Knorr's comments every weekday morning after the day's text and comments. He often went into great detail about the exact reasons that persons were dismissed, and it was almost always for theft or some kind of immorality. Persons were dismissed every week, but during that time there was never an announcement of someone being dismissed for drunkenness.

It was after mid-1977 that announcements about the reasons for dismissals stopped, and this is why we could not assume to know the reasons for dismissals from that point on.

In any case it's still true then, that I saw drunkenness and misuse of alcohol by younger members at Bethel, but never heard of a case where a person was dismissed for it. I cannot say it didn't happen. Yet I did know persons who got away with repeated drunkenness who were never dismissed.

I have never seen a member of the Governing Body drunk. I never even suspected it. One of several persons who claimed that he had seen such a thing, had his own issues with alcohol in my opinion. The only member of the Governing Body I knew well was Bert Schroeder. (I saw and worked near Sydlik, Gangas and Swingle on a daily basis but never got to know them very well.) He hosted a Gilead party in his room after every graduation. Invariably, there were some very talented persons in the Gilead class musically, and a great Flamenco style Spanish guitarist at the very first "Gilead party" I attended in the Fall of 1976. Brother Schroeder served alcohol in his room, but I don't recall him drinking at all, not that it would have been a problem if he did. Everyone else also drank moderately. This was very early and memorable in my Bethel years, and it was the first Bethel "party" I attended.

But among younger Bethelites, alcohol seemed to me to be a bigger problem than I had expected. In 1978, I went to Europe for about 6 weeks, part of it with the Schroeders, and part of it to work at the Athens branch, and part of it to attend various international conventions and visit and stay at 8 European branch offices - not in any official capacity of course, just as a free hotel room. Just before the trip, my brother had just sent me a 5-gallon bottle of Seagrams 7, which I had not opened and I asked my three roommates not to open while I was gone. It was empty when I came back.

Several young brothers at Bethel had lamps that were made from these 5 gallon whiskey bottles, and I gave away the empty bottle to a brother who wanted to make a lamp out of it. Who knows? It might have been passed down to someone who is still there.

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On 4/5/2019 at 11:47 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

regardless if there was someone as a Bethel Member, that truly knows nothing 

 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

my brother had just sent me a 5-gallon bottle of Seagrams 7, which I had not opened and I asked my three roommates not to open while I was gone. It was empty when I came back.

See, Billy? You achieved the very opposite of what you intended, didn’t you?  ‘Slash and burn’ is not always the way to go.

 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I gave away the empty bottle to a brother who wanted to make a lamp out of it. Who knows? It might have been passed down to someone who is still there.

Hey, look at the cool lamp that Brother Imbiber left me in his will!

 

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PROVING PROOF IN ALCOHOL

The word proof came about in the 18th century when sailors, unloading their ships of cargo and whiskey, had only one way to tell the strength of the liquor they were carrying: they would mix a little bit of whiskey with a pinch of gunpowder and drop a lighted match into the mixture. If it ignited with an audible “proof!”, the sailors knew at least half the content was alcohol.

Alcohol needs no lawyer – it has proof.   Audible, visible and  otherwise!

They want to say he is an alcoholic without 100% proof?   

 

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5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"spiritual preparedness"

Spirits can form part of preparedness, as antibiotics and other medicines might be non-existent or scarce.  However, true spiritual preparedness is what will save us. However, we won't want to dull our senses with too much alcohol. Jesus refused the drugged wine when he was going through his most severe test.

Then again, wine and other luxuries will be scarce in the great tribulation.  Note what is going on in Venezuela now.  Money blowing around in the streets.

(Revelation 6:6) 6 And I heard a voice as if in the midst of the four living creatures say: “A quart of wheat for a de·narʹi·us, and three quarts of barley for a de·narʹi·us; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine.”

(Ezekiel 7:19) 19 “‘They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will become abhorrent to them. Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them in the day of Jehovah’s fury. They will not be satisfied, nor will they fill their stomachs, for it has become a stumbling block causing their error. 
 

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18 hours ago, Jiminy Cricket said:

I swear that stuff is only $23 per bottle at my local supermarket.

Jiminy, purpose of this forum is not to promote local supermarket with cheaper prices :))))) 

................Perhaps admin will make new topic with your comment! .... ahahha... or worst ...give you "last warning"

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16 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I wouldn’t trust the word of a former Bethel member between 1968-1984

yeah i remember well, these were very problematic decades :)))) for all Bethel's around the world and volunteer workers of those period has been special piece of work  :))))

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28 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

What I find fascinating is your comment on Venezuela. I recall my mother telling me a story of how one-day money would become useless to a point of seeing it roll down the streets without anyone thinking to pick it up. This was back in the '60s.

 

Here is a picture of it:

 

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2 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

@Srecko Sostar....   My thinking too,  of sure false money.  Before Armageddon, the most people always running after such of  "free"  money!  In my eyes its a fake, sorry....

I made fun just for fun. But, in history there was at least few situation when money and gold worth nothing in specific part of world and in specific situation. People already trowed material thing verbatim and figurative in the past and present time.   

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THE VIDEO OF BROTHER ANTHONY MORRIS    ( source, our  Brother  Jose Antonio Gutierrez Garcia )

My dear brothers and sisters,
I respond to those who have asked for my opinion. Therefore, those who do not know what I am talking about, do not ask me.

The past days, I received in the mailboxes of my Facebook and Youtube pages, a video that is circulating among the apostates of our Faith. Evidently it has been sent to me as a joke.
Of all of you my deep disgust is known for all those who are not satisfied with their distance from our community, now they have dedicated their poor lives to be our satellites, whining how poor they are, and looking for ways to intoxicate weak minds like their own.

The video in question tries to convince those who want to swallow it, that one of the members of the governing body, Brother Anthony Morris, is in a liquor store, buying a lot of bottles of whiskey, a very high price on the bottle, and spending a large amount of dollars.

Do you know what it is to EDIT A VIDEO? I explain it to you.
It is a process by which an editor places fragments of video, digital effects and any other audiovisual material on a tape or a computer file. To edit a video is simply to MANIPULATE it, that is, to join some images to others, eliminating some, enlarging or reducing others already edited, incorporating music and sound, digital effects, titles and any other material.
That can be done with bad intentions. It is a way of cheating.

Well, brothers, the idea is this.
FIRST, I have no doubt that apostates are human beings. But, that is precisely his unforgivable sin. Because if they were pigs or literal dogs as the Bible calls them, they would have some mercy from Jehovah. Now, they are intentionally sinning against the holy spirit, by attacking the holy people of Jehovah.
SECOND, everything, absolutely everything that these people do, aims to slander, blaspheme and lie against our people. Proverbs 18:48 says that "the mouth of the wicked causes bad things to bubble up." And Psalm 35:20 says: "For it is not peace that they speak, but against the quiet of the earth things of deceit are still plotting."
THIRD, the video in question is EDITED. It is not a continuous image, but it is formed by different cuts, attached to each other at the will of the person who recorded it. Does that matter a lot? You are right. Because it raises unanswered questions, such as where is it that the brother takes the bottles with his hands? Where is it that the brother goes with his cart and the 8, 10 or 12 bottles (depending on who tells the story) to the box and pays them? Where do you see that the cart that the brother of the store takes out, carries those bottles?
Moreover, my brothers, let us suppose that Brother Morris really buys a few bottles of whiskey. Do we know its final use? Is it for your own consumption or is it for the Bethel house, where many guests are received among travelers, Bethelites, volunteers, civil authorities, etc., etc.? The hypocrites will say that we can not drink alcohol. That is false, I can drink the wine or the liquor that the Bible authorizes me, without the excess that leads to drunkenness.
But there are even the hyper-hypocrite people who accuse the brother of spending the money that the "poor little" brothers donate in the contribution boxes of the whole world. And who knows what is paid in cash? Where is the teller's testimony telling us the amount paid? Who claims that Brother Morris paid with Bethel money or did it out of his own pocket? Many may not know, but we have brothers who were millionaires before leaving their businesses and keep monthly revenues to devote exclusively to the Kingdom. But the hypocrite will say that they make a vow of poverty and of course, according to them, that means becoming hermits, wearing sacks and asking for alms in the streets.
Finally, those who have fewer neurons in their heads, wonder how it is that the brother was not preaching on Saturday morning. You have to have your face like the flint to demand from US accounts of how we direct our spiritual life. I do not intend to answer that stupidity, considering how the faithful slave dedicates 100% of their lives to serving the entire community of witnesses.

SUMMARIZING:
I'm sure they read these apostates, simple people to whom it's easy to cheat. Let's see if your mind manages to assimilate these words: Whatever you do, say what you say, you can spend the rest of your sad lives plotting, make the videos that you like, slander what you like, deceive those who are like you .. .... but LIVE GOD, you will never get the attention of the world Jehovah's Witness community. You are indifferent to us. We know that the hour of your punishment is approaching and we are moving away from you lest we spill your blood. It is true that some "presumed witnesses" pay attention to you, even cowards who remain in the congregations betraying their brothers without being discovered.
1 John 2:19 says: They came out from among us, but they were not of our kind; because if they had been of our class, they would have stayed with us. But [they left], so that it would be shown clearly that not everyone is of our class
TO MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS:
Few words to say. It is more of the same. YOU DO NOT READ, NEITHER LOOK, NEITHER HEAR, nothing that comes from our opponents. They take refuge in what we are forbidden by Jehovah, to speak to them and that is why they speak in the desert, boasting that because we do not answer them, they are right. Stupid, the youngest of the witnesses would sweep you off the map, with the biblical arguments that we have. The great tribulation is prepared. Everyone that the angels catch in contact with this hybrid apostate offspring will be dead. I call them hybrids because they come from the union of two individuals of the same genus but different species, humans and demons.

MAY JEHOVAH BLESS YOU WITNESSES OF JEHOVAH FAITHFUL.

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13 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

Do you know what it is to EDIT A VIDEO? I explain it to you.
It is a process by which an editor places fragments of video, digital effects and any other audiovisual material on a tape or a computer file. To edit a video is simply to MANIPULATE it, that is, to join some images to others, eliminating some, enlarging or reducing others already edited, incorporating music and sound, digital effects, titles and any other mate

Doesn't look like an edited video to me.

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5 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I printed all these myself

The laws governing the use of currency images. (US)

  • Reduce or Enlarge the Image – The image must be less than 75 percent the bill's actual length or more than 150 percent the of the currency's actual length. A dollar bill is 6.1 inches long, so it can only be used at 4.6 inches or smaller or at larger than one and a half times its actual size — at least 9.2 inches.
  • Print One-sided Only – The printed piece cannot use the currency as a double-sided image. It can only be one-sided. You may show the front or the back but not both.
  • Destroy Creative Materials  
      Hello guest!
    , digital files, negatives, 
      Hello guest!
    , and any other materials used in creating the currency reproductions must be destroyed, deleted or erased after final use.
All complied with I am sure?  😊

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I cannot understand why anyone needs to put this video up anyway. There is enough truthful information to put the GB in their place already. The GB have done enough and put enough wicked rules in place to show their true personalities.  They also show that they have no love for God or people, just a need to rule over others. A need to keep the true Anointed apart and to have Elders ruling as policemen to keep all the congregants quiet. 

Your GB are just men, men that have no true understanding of God's written word. Men that do not have God guidance or God's holy spirit. They have proved that so many times. So yes this video is pointless. True or untrue it matters not, it's just pointless.

BUT, it wasn't ALL of us they put this video up,  and it wasn't ALL of us that approved of it. BTK likes to lump me in with others. SM likes to lump me in with others. And probably other people like to lump me in with others. Why ? Because it makes them feel good and it makes them feel secure. If they call all 'opponents' 'apostates' and whatever other name they wish to use, as one, it helps them to deal with people that tell the truth about the JW organisation. I can fully understand how they get hurt and how they are made to see the wickedness within the JW Org. But they don't wish to be shown. They only wish to serve their GB and it's Org. 

But whereas all JW's are JW's, not all of us that seek truth and make truth known about the JW Org are 'one'. We are all individuals and we have different ways of doing things and different priorities. So JW's may call any of us anything that please them. But remember that if you slander any of us, if you tell lies about any of us, then you place yourself in opposition to God. Treat me as a man of the nations or a Tax collector maybe ? But I have one advantage above those. I have been part of JW Org, I know how it works, I know the power that the Elders hold over congregants. Maybe i have only experienced it in Southern England, but the Org is the Org earthwide. Same GB, same rules, Elders have same power over congregants. 

Actually if the man did have a drink I could fully understand that he needs it. :) He will have much to face from humans and from God in the future. 

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I personally do not trust a Brother who does not drink alcohol.

He may be COMPLETELY and absolutely trustworthy, as most are ... but I have found that alcohol makes a person more uninhibited, and it is then that their CURRENT "true colors" are more likely to be shown.

To be fair ... I have scared off quite a few people when I drink.

It saves BOTH of us a lot of wasted time and effort.

It's a "sword that cuts both ways".

( I no longer drink alcohol because it interferes with my heart medications ... but I am STILL a Grumpy Old Man.)

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6 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Quite the contrary. This makes him even more interesting! You can knock my door any time Bro.Morris!

Believe it or not (well you probably will believe it) on a certain ex-jw forum there are over 40 pages of discussion over this video already! I only read a  few, but as True Tom would say, they are in an absolute frenzy over this (actually TTH would use a different word). It's kind of sad, post a video of a man buying several bottles of Scotch, and it gets analyzed to kingdom come.....

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7 minutes ago, Anna said:

Believe it or not (well you probably will believe it) on a certain ex-jw forum there are over 40 pages of discussion over this video already! I only read a  few, but as True Tom would say, they are in an absolute frenzy over this (actually TTH would use a different word). It's kind of sad, post a video of a man buying several bottles of Scotch, and it gets analyzed to kingdom come.....

That is most definitely, absolute frenzy. Witnessing hypocrisy in action is probably a big part of it.    

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4 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

    Hello guest!

Thanks for including this link. No one should minimize the real problems in Venezuela, but many of the particular pictures are being distributed by persons who are trying to create a lie, and then hoping they will be further redistributed (as planned) by people who don't know it is based on a lie. Here's what your source (snopes) said:

The money shown lying in the gutter in this picture is Venezuela’s old currency, the Bolívar Fuerte, which was replaced by a new form of currency, the Bolivar Soberano, in August 2018. When the Bolivar Soberano was introduced, Bolívar Fuerte currency in amounts less than 1,000 ceased to be legal tender, and Bolivar Fuerte currency in all amounts was completely withdrawn on 5 December 2018. Hence the discarded money seen here was literally worthless not because it had no value, because it had been completely replaced by a newer currency and was no longer legal tender.

It reminds me of the plot of the comedy

    Hello guest!
when the Bank of England is about to move from the British Pound to the Euro and the bank is shipping the old money from banks for destruction and replacement. (Spoiler alert: If you haven't seen the move, and want to, the following hidden paragraph may spoil it for you.)

Spoiler

In the movie, a robbery results in bundles of these British Pounds being thrown from a train where one bundle is found by kids. Ultimately, the old currency will have no value at all when the replacement currency in the UK becomes the Euro. As Wikipedia says: "The story takes place in the weeks leading up to

    Hello guest!
's (fictional)
    Hello guest!
—an event publicised as '€ Day'."

This has actually happened to large amounts of currency in several countries, including the United States in the 1860s, the Deutschmark in Germany in the 1940's. On a similar note, thousands of dollars of older paper bills are destroyed by the Federal Reserve daily to keep newer currencies in circulation.

Similar to Venezuela,

    Hello guest!
in recent decades (unrelated to socialism) and replaced many paper currencies one right after another:

Hyperinflation in Brazil was a fourteen-year period of

    Hello guest!
from 1980 until 1994.
    Hello guest!
It coincided with the period of economic crisis and political turmoil triggered by the
    Hello guest!
during the
    Hello guest!
until the conclusion of the main processes of the
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in the country in the late-1980s/early 1990s.

The republic went through several short-lived currencies, including the

    Hello guest!
,
    Hello guest!
,
    Hello guest!
, and
    Hello guest!
, before introducing the
    Hello guest!
in 1994 which proved to be a stable currency.

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Anglo-Saxon era
The pound was a unit of currency as early as 775AD in Anglo-Saxon England, equivalent to 1 pound weight of silver. This was a vast fortune in the 8th century.

928
Athelstan, the first King of England adopted sterling as the first national currency. He set up mints around the country to supply the growing nation.

One pound could buy you 15 cows.

.... an F-35 U.S. Fighter plane currently costs 100 Million Dollars.

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21 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Too bad, we can't zoom in to see the burrito is actually a bean burrito . . . Too bad some people just can't accept forensics. lol! 😁

Perhaps you can't zoom in, but I still can. Let me know if you want the rest. I can send it to you and you can perform forensics to your heart's content.

IMG_1952.JPG

Sorry to disappoint you again Allen. On the original picture, you can still zoom in and see a couple grains of rice. Of course, past experience tells me that even this evidence might still not be enough for you. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

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6 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Therefore, you should read SNOPES again and a little closer, since the direct effect on Valenzuela money is due to its dictatorship, not just oil. Maduro has made the country’s currency worthless. Therefore, it’s dishonest to stipulate that currency on the street is there because it was not interchangeable.

The Snopes article got a little closer to the truth. It is worded in an unclear way, but I don't think it was being dishonest when it stipulated the following: "Hence the discarded money seen here was literally worthless not because it had no value, because it had been completely replaced by a newer currency and was no longer legal tender."

The article did admit that there were many factors, including Maduro. Part of it was definitely the lower oil prices (which hurt Saudi Arabia, too) and Maduro's optimistic claims in spite of outside interference. But most of it was sanctions that cut off Venezuela's ability to efficiently sell their oil.

Unfortunately, Snopes left off some of the most important factors that became more obvious from undercover work, undercover videos, and recorded, published interviews with officials who have understood the factors that proved that much of the problem was intentionally aggravated by outside economic sabotage against Chavez and Maduro. The recent test of loyalties in Venezuela by the United States showed that a majority (even if a small majority) of people in Venezuela still preferred Maduro over Guaido. Otherwise the US would have been happy to send "5,000 troops to the Colombian border," and have Brazil readied to support a possible invasion from that border. The US often uses "humanitarian aid" as a ruse to provide weapons to an opposition party, while bragging about how the sanctions will produce a humanitarian crisis of hunger, sabotage of infrastructure etc. U.S.Aid and other "white hat" programs have been caught red-handed in such regime change attempts in many other places. Trump admitted in a couple tweets and a speech in Miami that he wanted their oil.

    Hello guest!

The oil sanctions that U.S. President Donald Trump levied on Venezuela Monday represent Washington’s strongest effort yet to oust embattled leader Nicolás Maduro by starving his regime of funds. . . . The oil sanctions that U.S. President Donald Trump levied on Venezuela Monday represent Washington’s strongest effort yet to oust embattled leader Nicolás Maduro by starving his regime of funds. . . . Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said in a

    Hello guest!
. He said oil sanctions would be lifted if PDVSA, the state-owned oil company, were to pass control to Guaidó . . . . The U.S. measures, while stopping short of a full embargo on Venezuelan exports, are still a potentially devastating double whammy. They prohibit refiners in the United States, which imported about 580,000 barrels a day of Venezuelan oil over the last year, from buying any more crude from PDVSA. . . . The U.S. measures, which cap a steady, yearslong escalation of financial pressure on Maduro and his inner circle, sparked an angry response in Caracas. . . .[others] warned that Washington would have to be held responsible for inflicting more economic pain on a country already suffering food shortages, mass migration, and disease outbreaks.

This post will be moved to a more appropriate topic, but I thought it was interesting enough to post here for a bit.

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I find it funny how far off topic all this rubbish is AND I got told off for using the word 'hood' 

Quote @BillyTheKid46 This picture reminds me of the Drug dealers in the hood.   

@Space Merchant and the young boy, where are you both. Forum police. :) :) :) 

As for @James Thomas Rook Jr.quote " I personally do not trust a Brother who does not drink alcohol. "

" but I have found that alcohol makes a person more uninhibited, and it is then that their CURRENT "true colors" are more likely to be shown. "

If people need alcohol to speak the truth that is a bad thing.   And in my humble opinion if a person has consumed alcohol it means that they cannot face either the truth or life itself. 

Why would a happy person need alcohol ? Why would a contented person need alcohol ? 

Why would a sensible person waste money on alcohol ? 

And of course some pretend they don't actually 'need' alcohol but that it's just 'nice to drink' :) Um ..... 

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And of course some pretend they don't actually 'need' alcohol but that it's just 'nice to drink' :) Um ..... 

I don’t drink anymore, you know.

(Of course, I don’t drink any less, either.)

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On 4/8/2019 at 12:39 PM, Melinda Mills said:

(Ezekiel 7:19) 19 “‘They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will become abhorrent to them. Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them in the day of Jehovah’s fury

What is important about this text has nothing to do with money losing it's value either through obsolescence or inflation. It is more about the fact that Jehovah cannot be bought.

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1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I don't recall when Iraq's money was thrown away when script was changed. I don't recall when the Mexican's threw their old money away when they started using their new money. I don't recall American's throwing their old currency after new currency is printed. I believe the banks make the exchange.

That was my point, too. Further information from the Snopes article explains it this way:

One popular posting on

    Hello guest!
was captioned, “This is a street in Venezuela. That’s money in the gutter. It’s worthless. Welcome to socialism.”:  . . .

Although hyperinflation has indeed caused the bolivar to become all but worthless, the caption on this viral photograph is a bit misleading. The money shown lying in the gutter in this picture is Venezuela’s old currency, the Bolívar Fuerte, which was replaced by a new form of currency, the Bolivar Soberano, in August 2018. When the Bolivar Soberano was introduced, Bolívar Fuerte currency in amounts less than 1,000 ceased to be legal tender, and Bolivar Fuerte currency in all amounts was completely withdrawn on 5 December 2018. . . .

The viral photograph was likely taken on 11 March 2019 and showed the aftermath of looting at a bank in the town of Merida. Local news outlet

    Hello guest!
compiled several other photographs of the incident and reported that the perpetrators had discarded the old money on the streets and even lit some of it on fire (translated via Google):

TERRIBLE! Hooded (vandals) sacked the bank Bicentenario in Merida and scattered bolivars of the old currency through the streets (+ Photos)

On Monday, March 11, hooded (vandals) sacked the Bicentenario bank agency on Avenue 3, Glorias Patrias, in the state of Merida.

The fact was confirmed by the deputy of the National Assembly Williams Dávila, as well as by the correspondent of El Nacional in the state of Mérida, Leonardo León.

Through the social network Twitter, they reported that citizens scattered piles of old money bills in the streets, which were then set on fire.

TWITTER:

 

    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
Ayer se produjo el saqueo de un banco bicentenario en la ciudad de Mérida, en las cercanías de la plaza Glorias Patrias. Los saqueadores incendiaron una pila de bolívares además de dejar muchos billetes por el suelo.

Mayr 12, 2019. [Mar not May, thanks Melinda Mills]

-------------- end of Twitter quote as seen as Snopes ------------

In short, the “money in gutters” image shown above captured an older and now invalid form of currency that was tossed aside after the looting of a bank, and not usable currency discarded by citizens because it had been made next to worthless due to “socialism.”

------------------end of Snopes.com quote------------------

Snopes is often wrong. But these pictures were already well known and understood in their original context on Twitter, and from various journalists on all sides of the Venezuela situation before Snopes picked up on it.

It was still related to Maduro, and is still related to money becoming worthless. It is still supportive of the idea that people will be throwing their money (even their gold) in the streets, because money is of no value as a savior in the day of Jehovah's fury. It shows how bad things can get. A major use of these pictures, however, was to create a lie that it was all based on Maduro's mismanagement and therefore could be blamed on socialism. The masked persons who came into the bank may very well have planned the propaganda photo-op for purposes of drumming up support from outside Venezuela for the opposition parties.

It reminds me of Russian authorities planting literature in JW KH's as a set-up to frame trouble. The opposition parties in Venezuela have been getting away with violence, riots, sabotage, even terrorism, hoping to create a big enough backlash from the government that will give the excuse for a "regime" change.

It also reminds me of how someone can take pictures of Bro. Morris in a liquor store to try to give the impression that all this must be for him and him alone, or that it must be for the purpose of allowing him to abuse alcohol over some period of time.

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(Replying to Outta Here.)

Thanks for the observation.  It is being used loosely.

Yes, agree it is not about the value of money per se. However,  readers of the Bible will still recall the statement "They will throw their silver into the streets..." and if and when this happens, they will say that they read it in the Bible.   We can't deny that the Bible said that.  As BillyThe Kid reminisced, "What was fascinating to me, My mother pointed it out to me in the '60s as a devout JW that would happen, and it sure the hell did. There is no photoshop on that. It's not a tale."   My mother used to quote it a lot as well.

For other students who look deep into the Bible for guidance and more insight, they will understand it more fully.

*** rr chap. 6 p. 70 par. 18 “The End Is Now Upon You” ***

Do you discern a lesson for us in this part of Ezekiel’s prophecy? It is about the need to set the right priorities. Consider this: Only after the inhabitants of Jerusalem understood that the end of their city and their life was upon them and that material goods could not save them, only after that did they drastically change their priorities. They threw their possessions away and began to “seek a vision from a prophet”—but their change came too late. (Ezek. 7:26) In contrast, we are already fully aware that the end of this wicked world is upon us. Therefore, our faith in God’s promises has moved us to set the right priorities in life. As a result, we are busy pursuing spiritual riches, which have lasting value and will never be thrown “into the streets.”—Read Matthew 6:19-21, 24

Material goods is money's worth, so it has a connection still. Some people have money in the bank, some have it in land and other possessions. All can be changed into money.

 *** w88 9/15 p. 13 par. 14 Listen—Jehovah’s Watchman Speaks! ***

14 Jehovah and his executional forces cannot be bribed. (Read Ezekiel 7:19.) Bribery could not save the “concealed place,” the Most Holy, from being profaned as Chaldean “robbers” seized sacred utensils and left the temple in ruins. Jehovah ‘caused the pride of the strong ones to cease’ when King Zedekiah was captured and chief ones of the Levitical priesthood were killed. (2 Kings 25:4-7, 18-21) No, sinners in besieged Jerusalem could not escape adversity by bribery when God ‘judged them’ as covenant breakers. Similarly, during the imminent desecration of things Christendom holds sacred, she will not be able to bribe her way out of the execution of divine judgment upon her. It will then be too late to listen to Jehovah’s “watchman.”—Ezekiel 7:20-27.

This is a more direct and valid application. 

Good speech writers and politicians use Jesus' parables loosely in their speeches every day.  But we don't think they are trying to get close to God or really seeking to do his will.

 

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20 minutes ago, JW Insider said:
May 12, 2019.

-------------- end of Twitter quote as seen as Snopes ------------

In short, the “money in gutters” image shown above captured an older and now invalid form of currency that was tossed aside after the looting of a bank, and not usable currency discarded by citizens because it had been made next to worthless due to “socialism.”

Who is living in May 12, 2019 already? Snopes?