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JW Insider

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I think the proper motivation that can come out of a belief that the end can occur at any time, and that it might be very close, is probably what TTH is referring to with the carrot and stick proposition. Not that it is just meant as a tease to get more work out of us.

Yes. I suppose it is.  A bit sloppy in my analogies, here. sorry.

Separately, I was just reading about the first voyage to America and Columbus’s crew’s expressed fear that maybe the earth was flat. 

A brilliant answer from the captain, spurring on the crew on by appealing to their Bible knowledge.

“In that case,” he said, 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

“the end is just around the corner, because it is. It is always as close as our own lifespan.”

 

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Yes, and that according to Bible chronology, the FDS was appointed in 1919. So if 1914 was questioned, when were the FDS appointed? It would remove that whole aspect of what we have been taught, inclu

You are saying that they (GB) hang on to 1914 because if they get rid of it, they relinquish a Biblical base of authority. It's "nice" to have a Bible passage that talks about you and it's even "nicer

Quite so. And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out. The various persp

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7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The old days (1940's-1960's) had a "Circuit Servant" setting quotas for the congregation and then chiding the congregation for not meeting them. This was a sad state of affairs

I believe how some sort of quotas and normative about hours still exists. Average system. 15 minutes of preaching for old people, active, inactive, (3 or) 6 month periods ...etc.

GB and Helpers speaking about "theocratic carrier" as opposite to "university education" that only worth for "worldly carrier" and "own pleasures" and " self-fulfillment that not helps other people" - and that is very, very wrong as they explained. Because after Armageddon, we will not need doctors and  lawyers. Now, this moment, as Morris III says, we need many skillful workers, plumbers, bricklayers, carpenters .... This means, tomorrow (and partially they are today)  all this hand skills will be over brain skills, because building program will be of main concern after Armageddon.

Perhaps, @Anna ,  teachings and instructions, as mentioned above, are "fraudulent". Does this makes Organization or some people in it "fraudulent" is on observer to say.

With this in mind we can also comment 1914 and all knowledge, teachings, instructions, beliefs and hopes around that period of time. 

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15 hours ago, ComfortMyPeople said:

I get desperate and tired of talking about a date, how contrary to the spirit of the Bible and the warnings of Jesus!
While I prepare what I would like to say (remember that it is very difficult for me to express myself in English), I attach this link that although somewhat old, I think it is relevant.

True, you said everything important in just that one post. We could even use those same points again, I hope. I know I get a little carried away with discussing the specific chronology systems we have followed in the past, and I hope to keep that to a minimum.

For myself, enough has been said about the old Babylonian chronology recently. So perhaps we leave out any arguments here (for or against) the supposed 2,520 years from the fall of Jerusalem to 1914. Although, if anyone wants to participate in such a defense or discussion, I'm happy to join.

Enough has been said about the Watch Tower's old chronology system that brought us supposed prophetic fulfillments for 1799, 1844, 1874, 1878, 1881, 1910, along with 1914/1915, too. And I don't think this should be a date-bashing exercise where we simply try to show up the potential embarrassment we might feel about predictions for 1918, 1925, or the mid-1970's.

Perhaps enough has been said about the two overlapping groups within the the generation that would see all these things occur.

Naturally, people can talk about anything they want, but for myself I had hoped to limit this to a general discussion of the Biblical counsel about chronology, and what Matthew 24 might mean, if not the generation from WWI.  Or even whether Revelation chapter 6 or chapter 12 can make any sense if it doesn't mean something related to 1914 or the final generation that would see the end.

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Naturally, people can talk about anything they want, but for myself I had hoped to limit this to a general discussion of the Biblical counsel about chronology, and what Matthew 24 might mean, if not the generation from WWI.  Or even whether Revelation chapter 6 or chapter 12 can make any sense if it doesn't mean something related to 1914 or the final generation that would see the end.

When I say that I am tired of talking so much about dates, I do not mean that I do not find everything related to our background that has led to the birth, development and death of our numerical doctrines very interesting. It is part of the history of my religion, that is, it is part of the history of my life. And I am especially grateful to the explanations that  @JW Insider  has been happy to share with us. I have learned a lot from his knowledge, both from these spheres and from other plots in which he has exploded. Now that I think, I think he knows a lot of everything. I envy him.

Before anyone thinks that I am a kind of idolater or flatterer of JWI, I want to say that I often learn from the comments of children and anyone. Everyone can enrich our life and spirituality. With how much more reason who has had so many experiences and contacts within our organization.

Now, what I wanted to say with my comment that I would like to give this subject another approach (1914) is that I would like to share in the forum related portions of the Bible that address certain eschatological issues.

This doctrine (1914) I think that sooner or later it will fall like ripe fruit. In the meantime, I find myself like those Students of the Bible of the 20s who might have been very disillusioned with the Pyramid theory and its influence on our religion. At the moment these teachings were part of the official teaching. Less and less was mentioned, but it was still part of the doctrine. I suppose that these Christians would not make the Pyramid their great teaching focus, their great concern. They would not waste time showing interest in something they saw was nonsense. When Rutherford said that instead of being an instrument of Jehovah to teach, it was simply a funerary monument with demonic influence, they would not be disappointed, but relieved.

Well, it's the same with 1914

So, in the following posts, I would like to bring up approaches on Daniel 7 and 11, Revelation 6, 11 and 12 among others and may be enlightening about what we are discussing. I hope

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44 minutes ago, ComfortMyPeople said:

So, in the following posts, I would like to bring up approaches on Daniel 7 and 11, Revelation 6, 11 and 12 among others and may be enlightening about what we are discussing. I hope

I look forward to reading your thoughts on the matter ... as long as it is in short paragraphs, a decent type size, and does NOT mention Gog of Magog.

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OK, I can't help myself. Before I try to wean myself off the discussion of the "Old Watch Tower Chronology" that included 1799, 1874, 1878, I just wanted to point out a couple of things that might relate to something Anna just said about "saving face."

I don't think of the Organization as "fraudulent" because we all know that each one of us was "handed down" our chronology in a way so that we couldn't help but believe it. Same goes for how it was handed down to the GB, Helpers, and Writing Department. It tied 1914 in with Bible prophecy; it "proved" the Bible right; it "proved" that Witnesses (Bible Students) understood some esoteric prophecies of the Bible in a way that no one else could have "deciphered" without a measure of holy spirit. Even for members of the Writing Department and researchers to go back and look at what had actually been predicted, there was just too much "confirmation bias" to dismiss all of it. So even the old chronology was seen as a kind of preparatory framework that made it possible to accept 1914 as the End of the Gentile Times.

But here's where the heart of wisdom saving of face comes in. At first, 1914 was seen as a failure, and the new date for the End of the Gentile Times became 1915, then fulfillments were moved to 1918. But over time, it was seen that the Watch Tower could keep 1914, if it just changed the definition of the phrase "End of the Gentile Times." Nothing else predicted for 1914 had come true, except "a time of trouble." But the problem with the "time of trouble" prediction was that it had been long predicted that 1914 would be the END of that time of trouble, not the beginning. It's true that for the 10 years leading up to 1914, this idea had changed to a time of trouble STARTING in 1914 with several months of chaos, expected to reach into the year 1915, as all gentile kingdoms, governments and institutions lost their power. And they would then have to realize that the only kingdom to acknowledge was the one to be led, in 1914, by Jews in Palestine. So they couldn't really point to the Watch Tower's own predictions.

A quick definition of the original phrase "end of the gentile times" is seen here (quoting an older Zion's Watch Tower) at wol.jw.org:

*** w52 5/1 p. 260 par. 3 1914 a Marked Year! *** https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1952321
“It has often been shown that this is the basis and key of the Times of the Gentiles (Luke 21:24), or the duration of Gentile rule over Jerusalem.

That same article shows what was done in order to save face. They couldn't use the Watchtower's own publications to prove that the WTS had been predicting this date for several decades, so they use a magazine that the 1952 Watchtower called "The New World" magazine. (That was not its name, even though Brother Anthony Morris uses that same name when he holds up the magazine at the 2018 Annual Meeting.) Neither Russell himself nor the Bible Students had made use of this magazine, probably because they were more familiar with the great differences between what this magazine said and what Russell himself and the Watch Tower had said. The magazine was dated August 20, 1914, --still early-- so the things that the magazine quoted correctly would merely make Russell and the "Millennial Dawners" look like false prophets. "Russell's prophecy" was quoted so incorrectly that even though they made it sound as if it was coming true, any Bible Student would know differently.

But I wanted to point out just how Brother Morris used the article in a way that showed his own "subtext" was about saving face.

It's very long and I'll try to end the post with it, chopping out some pieces to try to shorten it, but since it's so long I wanted to put a shorter idea of saving face in front of it. It's from the Watch Tower publications in 1924: (g24 2/13)

It is not at all true that our expectations concerning this date [1914] failed of realization. Others now admit for that date all that we ever claimed for it.

Of course, there were no citations for those others, but the one that gets the most repetition in the WT publications is the one that Morris held up at the Annual Meeting. Notice how he will turn this into a point about how only the Organization will actually be able to point out when something "IS IT!":

I think that all of you would agree how much we enjoyed the museum video and hearing Brother Fred Franz —his voice— talking about after the assassination of the archduke that the brothers said, ‘Aha! There it is! There it is! What we’ve been waiting for.’

Well, that’s very stirring, and then we would have critics saying, ‘Yeah, but you people had other expectations that were not realized,’ and etcetera, you know. But it’s amazing that even the world recognized that this was unique—1914. In fact, I’ve had this for many years. I want to show it to you. It’s The New World Magazine. And it was widely read at the time, and I guess about 1931 they went out of business. But here, “End of All Kingdoms in 1914 — ‘Millennial Dawners’ 25 Year Prophecy,” widely read; other newspapers covered it. They made comments here about:

“The terrific war outbreak in Europe has fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy. For a quarter of a century past, through preachers and through press, the ‘International Bible Students,’ best known as ‘Millennial Dawners,’ have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of Wrath prophesied in the Bible would dawn in 1914. ‘Look out for 1914!’ has been the cry of the hundreds of traveling evangelists.”

And I appreciate very much how the Yearbook in 1975 considering our modern-day history made this beautiful quote:

“Disappointments about going to heaven in 1914 really were very minor, compared with the great expectations realized in connection with that year.”

And it’s amazing. During the first six months of 1914, nothing happened. They were being ridiculed. And then the archduke is assassinated. This one was particularly released on August 30, 1914. Millions dying in World War I.

So it’s Brother Franz’s statement that really gave the idea for the theme here: “This Is It!”

The question arises, Will we have one or more times—in the future or even now—when we can say, “This is it” and have that same exciting fervor because of Bible prophecy?

Well, let’s begin with this one here. Find Daniel chapter 11. And we’re going to read here verse 40, or half of it:

“In the time of the end the king of the south (here at Daniel 11:40) will engage with him in a pushing.”

So the Governing Body has been prayerfully considering recent events. And we know that in 1991, the Soviet Union came to an end. So who is “the king of the north”?

Well, after prayerfully considering it and the matter of the pushing, we’re assuring you that what we see, after prayerfully considering it, is that it’s Russia and its allies—the king of the north. . . .

So this is it! At this point, we’re confident to share with you that Russia and its allies are the king of the north, and they’re engaged in this pushing. In fact, last month, they had the largest war games—Russia did—since the Soviet Union was in existence way back in the ’80’s. And they had their allies with them in the war game. So we’re confident this is it. This is the king of the north, and that’s what’s involved at this time with the pushing—locking horns with each other.

So is there going to be another time related to Bible prophecy where the faithful slave will be able to say to you, “This is it”? Well, one that we’re all very familiar with—. . . Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them,. . .

So here’s the question, and it’s understood that it would be asked, will the faithful slave be able to at a certain time say to the brotherhood: “This is it! “This is what we’ve been waiting for. This is the ‘peace and security’ prophecy”? . . .. But just consider (especially those of you here, many of you are aged, and you’ll remember, many of you who were in the truth at the time) what about the year 1986?

The United Nations was proclaiming prior to January of 1986 that, you know, ‘Get ready.’ They wanted the governments to put their arms down for at least a year, the International Year of Peace. Whoa!

See if you were in the truth back then, you were like, “OK.” . . .  Well, how did the faithful slave handle all that? So this honors Jehovah’s faithful slave serving at that time.

Here’s what was published in the ’85 Watchtower, October 1, page 18. Now, this is some months before that all started in 1986. Here’s what was stated:

“Christians cannot say in advance exactly when the great tribulation will strike. Period. Jehovah has not revealed ‘that day or the hour.’ Thus when, for example, the United Nations “declares the year 1986 an ‘International Year of Peace,’ Christians watch the event with interest. But they cannot say in advance whether this will prove to be the fulfillment of Paul’s words.”

Nonetheless, we kept on the watch, but God’s spirit was guiding his people, particularly the faithful slave. They were not only faithful, they were discreet. And they did not say: “This is it! “This is the fulfillment of 1 Thessalonians chapter 5.” No. But if you are still there, go back to 1 Thessalonians chapter 5—just something to keep in mind here—sometimes we’ll read verses 2 and 3 and leave out verse 4. He writes:

“But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves.”

So thieves are doing their thievery when it’s dark, but we’re sons of light. So that’s not going to catch us, the faithful ones worshipping the true God, obedient to this earthly part of his organization. So the question comes up—If you go back to that quote from the 2004 Watchtower—‘Prophecies are only fully understood only after they are fulfilled.’ But we also said: ‘or are in the process of fulfillment.’

So will the faithful slave be able to say in the process of the fulfillment of this prophecy from 1 Thessalonians: “This is it! That’s what we’ve been waiting for”? We’ll have to wait and see.

So there’s a word of caution here we want to pass on to you because we’re all human. We must keep on the watch, but please, just don’t be gullible. You hear a world leader say something about peace. And then you start e-mailing or something else with a social network. “This is it!” Leave the channel to handle such matters. If the faithful slave is moved by God’s spirit to say that to the brotherhood, and that’s His will, fine. But please don’t be gullible. Stick with the way Jehovah wants this to operate, and he’ll bless your obedience.

Reading his words carefully it is clear that the Governing Body believe that they NEED to be able to say things in advance as a kind of proof that "the faithful slave is moved by God's spirit." They should be the ones to say it before any of the regular Witnesses might start emailing or using a social network.

The main point here is that the 1914 predictions, even though they turned out to be completely false, must still be "spun" as proof of Jehovah's spirit on the faithful and discreet slave. Even if we have to turn to a sensationalist, racist, secular magazine of the time that was more like "The National Enquirer," and even though it got most of it wrong, this can still be used as evidence of God's spirit:

*** w71 8/1 p. 468 pars. 6-7 Making Known God’s Prophetic Truths ***
But Jehovah’s witnesses did expect such things, and others acknowledged that they did. On August 30, 1914, the New York World said: “The terrific war outbreak in Europe has fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy. For a quarter of a century past, through preachers and through press, the ‘International Bible Students’ . . . have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of Wrath prophesied in the Bible would dawn in 1914. ‘Look out for 1914!’ has been the cry of the . . . evangelists.”
7 How could Jehovah’s witnesses have known so far in advance what world leaders themselves did not know? Only by God’s holy spirit making such prophetic truths known to them.

*** w73 7/1 p. 402 par. 5 Praise Jehovah with His People ***
This 2,520-year period began with the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple by the Babylonians in the late seventh century B.C.E. For example, Zion’s Watch Tower of March 1880 had declared: “‘The Times of the Gentiles’ extend to 1914, and the heavenly kingdom will not have full sway till then.” Only God by his holy spirit could have revealed this to those early Bible students so far in advance.

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I thought of another means by which I think the Watchtower shows that "saving face" is important. When 1914 "failed" Russell evidently made a big splash of facing the day on October 2 with a full-throated announcement to the Bethel family and traveling convention "delegates."  Russell said: THE GENTILE TIMES HAVE ENDED!

No one apparently thought to say anything about this until the 1920's when Rutherford published in the WT that something like this happened on October 1st. Then MacMillan wrote a paper preparing for the book, Faith on the March, claiming it happened on October 4th. Then the book changed it to October 2nd, and this is now the official date.

To me, this is an announcement that, as of now, even though we see that all the expectations did not come true, that they were now going to face this problem head on by claiming that it really was so: that it was not a mistake.

This doesn't quite match the evidence in Watchtower articles of the time that appear to start backpeddling on 1914, with claims that the Gentile Times ended in 1915. And then there was Rutherford's new teaching that the harvest had no longer been 1874 to 1914, but that it was now 1878 to 1918.

In 1918, when this failed again. Rutherford tried something that was very similar to what Russell had evidently done. He created a motto:

"THE WORLD HAS ENDED -- Millions Now Living Will Never Die!"

This again seemed like a way to say, yes the expectations failed, but let's double-down, kick in our heels, and claim, in 1918, that "THE WORLD HAS ENDED."

And the new time period 1878 to 1918 as a kind of "harvest" remained for many years in our publications. This teaching still remained even in the 1960's or beyond. An echo of it is seen even in this 1990 article:

*** w90 3/15 p. 14 par. 19 ‘The Faithful Slave’ and Its Governing Body ***
In its issue of November 1, 1944, The Watchtower stated: “In 1878, forty years before the Lord’s coming to the temple in 1918

[A 12/15/1966 WT article explained this incorrectly as a way to highlight supposed discernment in 1922, but the footnote in that same article proves the main article to be incorrect. Will discuss if any interest.]

But this 1878 date remained as prophetically significant for over 100 years before it was dropped. Why hang onto it for so long?

It's also fairly well-known that until 1943, the official Watchtower date for Christ's presence (parousia) was still 1874. The Watchtower held to this date for nearly 65 years. Long after hints and discussions had changed the emphasis to a possibility that Christ's presence could move to 1914 or 1918. (Rutherford for many years began stating that Christ's "presence" and "coming" was dated to 1918, but did not try to directly contradict Russell's 1874 date for the parousia.)

Similarly, for years the Watchtower taught the general idea that the "last days" had begun in 1799. Echoes of this 1799 teaching were still being mentioned in prophetic fulfillments related to Daniel's prophecies, even as they have been in the lifetimes of some of us here:

One curious explanation that could concern why we should no longer think of 1799 as related to the time of the end or 'last days' used, not the Watchtower's own former view, but a parallel view of others who had seen 1799 as an end time "millennial" date.

*** w67 4/15 p. 234 par. 20 Mankind’s Millennium Under God’s Kingdom—Why Literally So ***
the Holy Roman Empire, to 1799 C.E., when Pope Pius VI, already deposed by Napoleon Bonaparte, was taken as a prisoner from the Vatican on February 20, and deported to Valence, France, where he died on August 29, 1799. The trouble that followed upon the Roman Catholic Church was viewed as marking the “little time” during which Satan the Devil was to be loosed at the millennium’s end. (Rev. 20:1-3, 7, Dy) However, it is now 168 years since the year 1799. That is not a “little time” for the Devil to be loosed; and yet the troubles on the Roman Catholic Papacy are worsening. And now the destruction of Babylon the Great, of which the Papacy is the most powerful member, threatens that religious empire in the near future.

This was repeated again:

*** w89 9/1 p. 12 par. 6 Organizing Now for the Thousand Years to Come ***
Some Roman Catholics have claimed that Jesus Christ’s Thousand Year Reign ended in 1799 when French armies captured Rome and deposed the pope as its ruler, so that he was deported as a prisoner to France, where he died. The Catholic clergy have said that Satan and his demons were then released from “the bottomless pit,” or “the abyss,” to renew their deceptive work for “a little time.” (Revelation 20:1-3, Catholic Douay Version) If that were true, it would mean that the “little time” has already continued for 190 years, with no end in sight.

Notice that the first major defense against this view was that no one could call 168 years a "little time."

How does that square with our explanation of Revelation 12 where we start Satan's "short period of time" in 1914 and claim that this short period of time has already gone on for 106 years?

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20 hours ago, Anna said:

I agree with the credibility bit, however I do not think that ensuring contributions are the prime reason for keeping that credibility. I really believe it is a matter of pride, and the fear of what could happen to the faith of many people as a result of admitting that 1914 could be a mistake. If we were to think that the only reason is money, then this would be a fraudulent organization, which I don't think it is, and I dont think you do either.

@Anna Does fraud only involve money ? Can it involve faith ? Can it involve people's lives ? Can it involve truth ? 

Wasn't 1975, or the 'mid 70's' a big carrot ? 

And you spoke of the F&DS - 1914. Which F&DS did you mean ?

Did you mean ALL of the Anointed, or just those 8 men ? 

And PRIDE you mentioned. Doesn't that come before a fall ? 

And 'a fear of what could happen to the faith of many people as a result of admitting that 1914 could be a mistake. '

Wow, so keep telling lies. Build the JW Org on lies, just to keep the followers in. 

Anna, you just don't understand, how much that you do understand. It's like you write whilst in a trance and truth tells you what to write. You love the GB and Org so much, yet you tell the truth about them, which shows up what they are really like. 

@James Thomas Rook Jr. I say the same to you. You tell the truth about the GB and the Org, yet you stick with it. I think it was you that commented about Germany and Hitler. But it's as if the Org is Germany and the GB are Hitler, But still you serve . 

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10 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

@James Thomas Rook Jr. I say the same to you. You tell the truth about the GB and the Org, yet you stick with it. I think it was you that commented about Germany and Hitler. But it's as if the Org is Germany and the GB are Hitler, But still you serve . 

... place  keeper for reply after my nap ..... my eyelids are slamming shut.

 

OK...back.

I was only making the illustration about how things changed from the Kaiser Germany, to the Hitler Germany to give a generic example of how things change in one's surrounding environment over time.  I was NOT alluding to the WTB&TS, Jehovah's Witnesses, or the GB being anything like Nazi Germany, or Hitler.

I am very disappointed in what has happened in the "Truth" over the years, and do not try to defend what should not be defended, but that does not mean I am going to "jump ship".

Years ago there was a TV show called "Slattery's People", about a congressman's adventures and escapades  living and working in the swamp that is Congress, and the opening of each show a deep male voice said "It's not that Democracy is the best system of government, it's that the others are so much worse" ( or something to that effect).  That made a hell of an impression on me, and other than Richard Crenna playing the congresscritter, that's all I remember about it.

That's the attitude I have about Jehovah's Witnesses as practiced as ordered by the WTB&TS.

There is a LOT wrong ... but there is a LOT that is right

And besides, there will be clueless officers and crew on that ship to make you miserable ... but if you "jump ship", you better have a better place to go.

When you look at that "sea of humanity " .... that's only the top.

With all of its fantasys and foibles, being one of Jehovah's Witnesses is the best thing that ever happened to me ...and I appreciate that.

ANY OTHER WAY AND I WOULD BE DEAD OR IN PRISON.

I hope that gives you my perspective.

 

 

Slatterys People Intro.mp4

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SECTION 1. INTRODUCTION

POINT #1

Conversation this morning with a brother from my congregation. (A = me, B = brother)

  • B: The Governing Body is guided by the spirit of God. All it teaches us is what Jehovah makes them see or understand.
  • A: So, how do we change from saying one thing about the 1914 generation, to a totally different one, and soon in yet another. Does Jehovah transmit errors?

POINT #2

Conversation that I’ve had with a brother with decades serving in Bethel, (A = me, B = brother):

  • A: The Governing Body makes extended applications of Scripture without notifying what it is doing, to the extent that we forget the original meaning.
  • B: Also, Paul and others, when quoting from the OT introduced new approaches that were not in the original intention of the writer.
  • A: True, but the big difference is that they were inspired, but the GB is not.

POINT #3

This week's conversation with a veteran brother from my congregation. (A = me, B = brother)

  • B: The "disgusting thing in the holy place" was that religions embraced the League of Nations in 1919
  • A: You did not remember, but in 1999 this approach was modified, and it was explained that this event is still future, and we do not know exactly how it will be.

POINT #4

"Don't talk about my mother", says one spouse to the other during an argument. Touching the mother is a very serious matter. For many, the Organization is like a mother. Any criticism or negative observation is considered the result of lack of faith, little spirituality or influence of apostates.

CONCLUSION

About POINT # 1. As we consider the GB not inspired or infallible, but guided by the holy spirit, we are reluctant to admit doctrinal errors on your part. We call them adjustments, progress in understanding or with other euphemisms. Why have we this view? Do we remember having read in one of our publications the term: rectification, error, we were wrong, we apologize for ...?

About POINT # 2. We give the GB an authority similar to the apostles. If these apparently "twisted" the OT to achieve a good end (to prove that Jesus was the Messiah for example), why the GB cannot take some licenses with the Scriptures so that we can preach more, so that we respect the established order, so that we promote the unity, or so that we continue to have a sense of urgency.

On the way in which Christian writers used the OT very flexibly, until they seemed to distort the original meaning, the book “Handbook on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament: Exegesis and Interpretation”, by Gregory K. Beale is very enlightening.

In relation to POINT #3 it often happens that many doctrines that we have learned for decades and then have proven to be inadequate, we have studied many times in the obsolete format, to the extent that this comes to mind before the new one. In addition, with so many changes, it is sometimes difficult for us to remember the "right thing" (yeast, generation ...)

About POINT #4. I like this moral of the story "the new clothes of the emperor"

·        It is often used to describe a situation in which people are afraid to criticize something because everyone else seems to think it is good or important. It is the title of a fairy tale by Hans Christian Andersen about an emperor who pays a lot of money for some new magical clothes that only wise people can see. The clothes don't really exist, but the emperor doesn't admit that he can't see her, because he doesn't want to look stupid. https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/emperor-s-new-clothes

 

APOCALYPTIC GENDER’S INTERPRETATION SCHOOLS

Daniel, especially in the OT, and logically Revelation, are known as apocalyptic because they share a style characterized, among others, by these common elements:

  • Symbology before literal language.
  • Visions
  • Encrypted language
  • Clear temporary allusion to the "end times"

Well, to address the correct exegesis or study of these books, there are the so-called schools or interpretation approaches, mainly from the book of Revelation:

  • PRETERIST: the writer describes what was happening at that time or even in the past. He preferred a cryptic language to avoid the persecution of Rome. There is no prophecy but a description of the past.
  • HISTORICIST: It is believed that the revelation is about the history of the Church from the first to the last coming of Christ.
  • IDEALIST: Revelation, instead of talking about the future, contains teachings about the situation of the Church in the world.
  • FUTURIST: the content of the book will be fulfilled at the end of time.
  • And there are other variants.

With all of the above, I would like to reach this conclusion: it is difficult to arrive at a correct understanding of that part of Scripture. If the GB claims to have the "key", it is interesting what the mysterious book itself says:

  • (Revelation 5: 2-4). . And I saw a strong angel proclaim loudly: "Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?" 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or look into it. 4. I gave way to a great deal of weeping because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it.
     

 But, finally, if Jehovah inspired that content, it would be more than simply filling the pages of His Book. So, at least something, a part, of the meaning of the book should be useful to us, but due to the POINTS # 1 to # 4 mentioned above, we, the JW, have a special difficulty in understanding apocalyptic literature.

(to be continued…)

 

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