1914

[Srecko Sostar]

32 minutes ago, Anna said:

So if 1914 was questioned, when were the FDS appointed? It would remove that whole aspect of what we have been taught, including the brothers being in prison. 

Don't worry about that. As they moved "appointment over all belongings" to the future, they can make same with "appointment for sharing spiritual food" in the future too. It would need some deep thinking how to manage this issue, but "believe me", it is possible. :)) And JW's will not feel the change. 

JW's not feels any change about "all belongings". The same Society still have all influence over "belongings". And we know what "belongings" includes. JW's aspect still stay the same. Only many of members now have to go to some other congregational meetings because of "merging". Are "mergings" product of new doctrine? Did GB give info on: Who are now in charge "over all belongings"? (good idea for new topic, it is made now) I think that was not explained in WT study articles, not even in a simple edition :)) 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @Anna  "All this would remove the thought that the GB are the only channel God is using, although G.Jackson admitted that it would be presumptuous to think that they were the only chanel. However I don't think he, or any of the others have put this in writing in any of our publications though. So unless someone has read Jackson's ARC deposition, they will be under the impression that the FDS, therefore the GB  are the ONLY chanel God is using, and therefore to question anything they say is tantamount to going against God himself." 

Yes Anna precisely. When push came to shove, G. Jackson had to admit that the GB were not the only channel God would use. BUT they will not put it in writing.  Isn't that being deceptive ? Or more so dishonest ? As you've said most people, including 'boots on the ground' JWs, will not know.   

Quote "*Questioning God is allowed, but questioning the GB is not! How strange is that? "

I'd prefer not to question God. I think God showed Job who is who, and who not to question. 

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Quote @JW Insider  "Of course, obeying God as ruler and not men, doesn't preclude us from "obeying" our congregation elders.. "

It has been the obeying of congregation elders that has kept the Child Sexual Abuse so deeply hidden within JW Org. 

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

because there will be some who think it is "disobedient" to even consider the questions about 1914. 

I’m not one of them. Nor do I have you in mind with application of that Acts 5 verse. I have other people in mind.

Since I am also “out there,” even though not paralleling the topics that you take on, I give thought to “let he who is standing beware that he does not fall.” I don’t want to have happen to me what I have seen happen many times to others—brothers become experts in their own eyes and in time leave Jehovah’s organized worship completely, frustrated that it is not “keeping up.” 

I counter that tendency to become wise in my own eyes by firmly adhering to the traditional door-to-door ministry and making sure activity here is supplemental, not a replacement. My understanding is that you do the same, but I suspect that some others on this forum do not.

I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by staying firmly cooperative with existing congregational arrangements, respecting the role and the need of leadership. I gather that you do the same. 

I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by always looking for the good in others, such as in Philippians 2:3 mode of considering the other superior—searching out and honing in on the at least one quality, often many, at which the other plainly is superior, then always endeavoring to see him or her primarily through this lens. This I believe you do too. In fact, you are better at it than me.

I don’t view you as someone who is not obeying. I view you as someone who is bringing your gift to the altar. If you suspended your traditional ministry and began running down the Christian organization, I would reappraise. But you do not that I have seen. I too, try to “bring my gift to the altar,” such as it is, but it does not replace the organized activity that collectively makes the light shine.

[Arauna]

I remember when the catholic church changed fish-Friday to non-fish Friday.  My grandmother did not understand it but she just went ahead and did it. She stopped eating only fish on fridays.  No-one in the catholic church now goes back in the history of the catholic church to question that decision/teaching in an endless fashion. It has been accepted as being in line with scripture - so there is no endless rehashing of when the decision was taken and why they had it wrong before that change, who had it wrong etc. It is church history - the past.

Catholics are now questioning the new decision to have interfaith with other Abrahamic religions. Is it wrong of them to rather question what the church is doing right  now instead of the past?   I think not.  Past  improvements  are accepted and they strive to correct any deviations from gods word in the "current view" of things. 

Frankly, I do not care if Russel did not understand 1914 or not. I was not living at the time and it does not affect me now. People try to hash it up over and over to prove what?  It is NOW part of our teaching and I accept the teaching.  The reasons I will not go into here. 

I look at what the GB is teaching NOW because this is affecting us  NOW.  They have made mistakes in the past but so has every other  religion I know of and  most large secular corporations have  absolutely endless issues - it is life.  Most of my working life I saw large issues everywhere - so I have never had the expectation of earthly perfection from ANY organization be it religious or secular. 

I  therefore will only question teachings which are NOW part of the JW organization.   History is history and if it happens to fit in with past prophecies I will accept it I.e. the swift leopard beast with one big horn which is interpreted as Alexander the great. I accept the explanation because it fits the history.

We have the current teaching of the slave feeding domestics. Do I accept this when I read Matt 24:45 - yes or no.  If I accept it and get baptised - why will I start questioning it and its history in the congregation and cause dissent?  If I currently do not agree with my own previous decisions regarding JWs - then i can of free will leave the congregation and find a place where they have all the CORE teachings of the JWs without the teaching of the slave - but  i should not keep rehashing history and become a murmering  voice in the congregation.  This is not obeying scripture which encourages me to grow so I can encourage others.

Be in the congregation because you want to be there.  Do not sit with one foot in the congregation and the other outside it because you give yourself the right to higher criticism of the past history . 

If you do not like the present teachings - leave.  We live in a free world.........do not be a hypocrite and be an "indecisive" one........ but frankly - I do not know where you can go to......

If you stay - then accept the present teachings.  Contribute to the positive aspects of the congregation you are in.  Build up your brothers and sisters and build unity. .... do all the things the scriptures encourages us to do. 

 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The reasons of strict attention to history is this:

If you do not know and understand history ... you are DOOMED to repeat it.

8 minutes ago, Arauna said:

If you do not like the present teachings - leave.  We live in a free world.........do not be a hypocrite and be an "indecisive" one........ but frankly - I do not know where you can go to......

If you stay - then accept the present teachings.

This is based on the FALSE premise that you are limited to do only one thing, or the other thing.

Since you are not concerned with our history ... you are doomed to repeat it.

..... as you have just demonstrated.

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I view you as someone

Or for crying out loud, Allen!

[Srecko Sostar]

20 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Frankly, I do not care if Russel did not understand 1914 or not.

You are right on this and many more what today's Russell-ites, Rutherford-ites and GB-ites boys and girls doing.... if you are not member of same group and have own life outside of all this.  

Otherwise , listen more what @James Thomas Rook Jr. have to said about it :))

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If you do not know and understand history ... you are DOOMED to repeat it.

Unfortunately, this saying is a load of manure, imo. You repeat it regardless. 

[Srecko Sostar]

Is @Leander H. McNelly  another Phantom of the Opera who are created just for down-vote? :)))

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

TTH:

Your opinion that "If you do not  know and understand  history, you are doomed to repeat it.", is a "load of manure" really surprises me. Up until now I knew you did not pay much attention to detail, but I thought you were smarter than THAT.

You have to know and understand history .... and learn from it ... not to fall into the same trap that has ensnared so many others, and perhaps even one's self

That is what EXPERIENCE IS !!!

LEARNING FROM HISTORY.!!!

To learn from it, you have to know IN DETAIL what has gone on around you before you stumbled on the scene. and understand what it really means.  OFTEN it's not what we know that makes a difference ... but what we know that IS NOT WRONG.

Details make the difference !

And now, for a musical interlude to lighten things up, with your very own introduction, illustrating my point that you are NOT a detail oriented person.

... and for those in Rio Linda ... it's "Beachwood 4-5789".

 

The Marvelettes - Beechwood 4-5789.mp4

On an old rotary phone, circa 1960, you would dial BE4-5789, in the United States.

[the Sower of Seed]

Imagine you were with Moses and some 3 million camped at the Red Sea, suddenly people are alarmed as they see chariots rushing toward them. As they get closer, some supernatural tornado appears between the chariots and you. Suddenly , your life changed, you were about to be the 1st person Pharaoh struck down with his spear.

Now miraculously You Are Safe! Are you thankful to God? Or do you begin complaining about Moses leadership?

1914 saw the beginning of the Last Days, Jesus foretold how they would begin with a war beyond the clash between 2 kings. The war was bad, the resulting peace was not that great, fear had entered the world, fear that it could happen again, world annihilation was now seen as possible, what was never imagined, was now reality.

The Book of Daniel foretold it, but the Book was sealed until the time of the end. Why were Bible Students were expecting it? Did all religions foretell 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times? What does the End of the Gentile Times mean?

Revelation 12:7 foretold: And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven.9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 

Angels battled in Heaven, the losers were thrown to the Earth. Were they upset?

1914 and WW1 are evidence of the anger Satan felt and his desire to harm those who Jesus was fond of.

1914 saw the End of the Gentile Times. Jehovah has allowed the World of Mankind to govern themselves. The Jews were unfaithful to their covenant with God. Jehovah loved King David,He promised King David that a man from his lineage would set on God's Throne of Earth's Sovereignty Forever. Jesus casting Satan to the Earth is proof that Jesus, the son of Jesse, has been enthroned as Earth's new King.

1914 Why didn't Armageddon begin then? Jesus is the primary King, however a "body" of Kings with Priestly abilities, who were once men and women, will better understand and help the many different people on Earth become restored to Jehovah's standards and favor.

1914 Saw the beginning of the sitting of the 144,000 King and Priests chosen from among the faithful witnesses of Jehovah. Faithfulness included doing the same ministry Jesus taught the Apostles.The ministry is a command that Jesus gave his disciples that were watching him be taken to heaven after his resurrection as a spirit. A person faithful to that command has shown themselves willing to humble themselves while cultivating a sincere desire to earnestly help others. 

1914 until when? When will the last of the 144,000 go to Heaven? The last will be changed from human to a spirit in the twinkling of an eye just as Armageddon is about to begin! All of the 144,000 , some you may have known, will come to Earth as God's executioners when Armageddon begins. See Mtt.13:36-43

1914 to 2020: The last 106 years have been some of the most stressful, the most painful, the most deadly, the most unnatural of human history, yet the expressed will of God was to be done during those years. See Mtt.24:14 , Mark 13:10

The Bible began with the Book of Genesis which explains creation, Adam & Eve, Eden, Satan, rebellion and mans eviction from God's Holy Presence. The pages that follow explain how a Seed of God would become the Messiah and how you could see it was him from Bible verses written hundreds of years before his birth. The Seed,defined Jehovah and taught men to pray to Him for His Kingdom to come. The Seed taught about the "restoration" and a Kingdom of Kings and Priests ruling with him after he had gone to his Father. The Book of Isaiah reveals the promise of earthly life, building houses, growing food and grapes, peace with the animals, youthful flesh and long life first spoken in Isaiah, the Book of Revelation repeats the promise of a long peaceful life of people after Armageddon.See Re.21:3-5. Daniel foretold survivors of a great distress after Michael (Jesus heavenly name) Stands up, which is echoed at Revelation 7:14.

6000 years ago, The Highest Court gave a complainer about God time to show he could do a better job than God. Who are the jury? Millions upon Millions of spirit creatures who by their integrity have voted that Jehovah has acted properly toward all spirit life. What about human life? Every adult human has a vote, like the angels, they either imitate God or Satan.

1914 and the Good News. The International Bible Students began in all earnest effort to make the Kingdom known from 1919 until today. Like the person leaving Egypt, we have witnessed many unusual events. Jesus stated these would occur after he was enthroned as Jehovah's Appointed King. For the joy that Jesus saw set in front of him, like a carrot before a horse, Jesus stayed the course, tho chariots of non-believers struck him and mocked his faith, he stayed the course and has sat down at the right hand of God.

Now wicked men mock those chasing the carrot. I see the waters open before us, as the Hailstones begin to fall, their mocking will stop. Tho they chase after us into the waters, they will remain unknown forever! For all human history of those without the approved faith will be forgotten! While the Names of the Survivors may Last Forever!

The Expressed Will of God is being Preached in all the inhabited Earth by one religious group.That should tell you who are most closely following Jesus' teachings and who God has empowered with His Holy Spirit. That preaching is the execution of God's Justice, He is warning of His Actions against those who do not honor His King, Jesus, and obey the moral teachings written in His Inspired Word.

1914 seems like a long time ago, but is it beyond God's Expressed Time?

 

     

 

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Unfortunately, this saying is a load of manure, imo. You repeat it regardless. 

Too cynical. I take it back. Sometimes you do learn from history. At least, it takes longer to repeat it.