Genuine and Professed Jehovah's Witness - Who is who?

[Srecko Sostar]

I found interesting video, with very important evidences about few subjects. Video took place in Cardiff, Wales 2019. Summer Convention "Love never fails".

1) To what extend JW members are equipped for reasoning and how much they are willing to defend own teachings and beliefs?

2) To what measure JW members who are Convention delegates are under control of people in "orange vests"? And why they allow them to be under their control?

3) Why JW members who wear "orange vests" and are in official capacity are not willing to defend WT published teachings? 

4) Does it mean how every JW member who make some sort of sin in his life as JW congregant is "professed JW" while the state of sin lasts?

5) Does he/she in time before and after sinning is considered as "genuine JW"?

.....and some more.

Enjoy in good material for thinking and discussion. 

 Sadly, child sexual abuse is a worldwide plague, and true Christians have been affected by this plague. Why? “Wicked men and impostors” abound, and some may try to enter the congregation. (2 Tim. 3:13) In addition, some professing to be a part of the congregation have succumbed to perverted fleshly desires and have sexually abused children. Let us discuss why child abuse is such a grave sin. Then we will consider how elders handle instances of serious wrongdoing, including child abuse,  and how parents can protect their children. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2019/love-justice-face-of-wickedness/

 

[Witness]

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

To what extend JW members are equipped for reasoning and how much they are willing to defend own teachings and beliefs?

Since they are not willing to defend their teachings, then they must not be equipped to reason!  

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

To what measure JW members who are Convention delegates are under control of people in "orange vests"? And why they allow them to be under their control?

To what measure?  100 percent.  Why do they allow it? Because as the man said who was making the video, they refuse to use their mind.  Reason?  I can only guess its out of fear, knowing an elder would rush up any moment to shoo them away from the gentleman.  

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Does it mean how every JW member who make some sort of sin in his life as JW congregant is "professed JW" while the state of sin lasts?

I was asking myself the same question!

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Does he/she in time before and after sinning is considered as "genuine JW"?

Hmmm, only the writers of the WT know this.

The gentleman states, “so it’s a unique point, that actually there has never been a child abused by a Jehovah’s Witness”

A few of the JWs are well aware of his daughter’s abuse, but they shun him when asking a simple question.  Everyone has a right to use their mind.  God expects us to.  But the elders/servants made sure no one could. And they made sure they didn't use their own mind as well. 

"Don’t let the world around you squeeze you into its own mould, but let God re-mould your minds from within, so that you may prove in practice that the plan of God for you is good, meets all his demands and moves towards the goal of true maturity."  Rom 12:2

For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power and love and a sound mind.  2 Tim 1:7

 

 

 

http://pearl-obeymen.blogspot.com/

 

[Srecko Sostar]

After the death of the apostles, professing Christians left off pronouncing the name. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1960561

I found this today. Interesting using of verb profess. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

From the Watchtower Library link @Srecko Sostar provided above. 

“This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel: ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name to eternity, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.” (Ex. 3:13-15) We, therefore, have the Creator’s own words for it that his name is Jehovah.

Um, not exactly, because the name Jehovah would not have been used. 

YHWH does not translate to Jehovah. 

Whenever they came across the tetragrammaton, JHVH, they studiously substituted the Hebrew words 

Quite funny as when I studied with JWs I was told it was YHWH but this W/t link says JHVH. Um, which is actually right I wonder ? 

The Tetragrammaton is the four-letter Hebrew word יהוה, the name of the biblical God of Israel. The four letters, read from right to left, are yodh, he, waw and he. While there is no consensus about the structure and etymology of the name, "the form Yahweh is now accepted 

Jehovah (/dʒɪˈhoʊvə/) is a Latinization of the Hebrew יְהֹוָה, one vocalization of the Tetragrammaton יהוה (YHWH), the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible^[1] and one of the seven names of God in Judaism.

The consensus among scholars is that the historical vocalization of the Tetragrammaton at the time of the redaction of the Torah (6th century BCE) is most likely Yahweh. The historical vocalization was lost because in Second Temple Judaism, during the 3rd to 2nd centuries BCE, the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton came to be avoided, being substituted with Adonai ("my Lord"). The Hebrew vowel points of Adonai were added to the Tetragrammaton by the Masoretes, and the resulting form was transliterated around the 12th century as Yehowah.^[2] The derived forms Iehouah and Jehovah first appeared in the 16th century.

"Jehovah" was popularized in the English-speaking world by William Tyndale and other pioneer English Protestant translations such as the Geneva Bible and the King James Version.^[3] The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops states that in order to pronounce the Tetragrammaton "it is necessary to introduce vowels that alter the written and spoken forms of the name", resulting in "Yahweh" or "Jehovah".^[4] It also remains in use by the Watchtower Society translators of the New World Translation, and appears in the still-popular translations of the American Standard Version (1901) and the Young's Literal Translation (1862, 1899), but it does not appear in current mainstream English translations, some of which use Yahweh but most continue to use "Lord" or "LORD" to represent same.^[5

^{Food for thought. Would the true Anointed use Jehovah or Yahweh ?} 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Having just looked at @The Librarian topic about the name Jesus I noticed this

The name "Jesus" has a long, long history. The origin of this name is the Hebrew name ????? (yehoshu'a, Strong's #3091 [Latinized as Joshua]), which means "Yahweh saves."

Then in another of @The Librarian topics we have this 

 

The name Jesus (Gr., I·e·sous′) corresponds to the Hebrew name Jeshua (or, in fuller form, Jehoshua), meaning “Jehovah Is Salvation.” 

Um, someone cannot make up their mind here.  

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Sorry @Srecko Sostar I've gone totally off of your topic . 

Would be good if the @The Librarian could move my comments (except this one) to a new topic, please. 

To return to @Srecko Sostar 's topic : " After the death of the apostles, professing Christians left off pronouncing the name". 

Now if that is saying that anyone not using God's name is not a true Christian, then it would of course be important to get God's name right 

Quote : Notwithstanding, it is almost certain that the name of God was originally pronounced “Yah·wehʹ.”

But to quote from Srecko's original topic. 

 In addition, some professing to be a part of the congregation have succumbed to perverted fleshly desires and have sexually abused children.

But some of those are Elders. So they must have been quite convincing in their 'professing to be part of the congregation'. 

 

 

[Shiwiii]

20 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

We, therefore, have the Creator’s own words for it that his name is Jehovah.

Um, not exactly, because the name Jehovah would not have been used. 

YHWH does not translate to Jehovah. 

Not only this but John 1:3 states that Jesus is the creator. Nothing was made that has ever been made, was made without Jesus. 

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Now if that is saying that anyone not using God's name is not a true Christian, then it would of course be important to get God's name right 

exactly! 

[Witness]

I like this man's opinion:

YHWH...   
              The "Name" of the Father in heaven. 

         Most Hebrew "Names" had meanings. Names of people today in general are often less like that.  They are given based on what the parents prefer to call their children.  Sometimes the name may simply be one that the parent likes, or it may be the name of a relative. This is even sometimes the case in ancient Israel during Jesus time, where many people expected the parents to name their child after a relative. (Luke 1:61) (Luke1:59,60,61,62,63,64)  But notice this; the angel of the Lord told Zechariah, that he should name his son John, (Luke 1:13) , and that is what both he and his wife did.  Mary the mother of Jesus was also told what name to give her son by an angel. (Luke 1:31) 
The names in the bible, are unlike the names parents give their children today.  Most bible names have meanings that encompass so much more.   God brought the animals to Adam to see what Adam would call each of them. (Gen 2:19)
Although the bible fails to say this, it is unlikely that Adam simply picked a nice sounding name.  I think Adam was very careful about this assignment... Adam probably studied the animal and thoughtfully decided on a name that fit the animal.
 God even changed the names of some persons to describe the individual more accurately.  For example at age 99 God changed Abraham's name from Abram to Abraham, and his wife's name from Sarai to Sarah.(Gen 17:1-5; Gen 17:15) 
These names defined  some of the attributes of an individual.

In this sense the Father's "name" is less likely just a "proper name" as we understand names today. It is probable that no human could comprehend it's full meaning. (Compare Rev 19:12; Rev 2:17)  These two scriptures alone show us that a "name" is more than simply a person's "name" as we understand it today.  There is so much more meaning that we can fail to discern.  The white pebble (or stone) that is given to the faithful who conquer, is known only to the one who receives it. (Rev 2:17)  When Jesus said "I have made your name "known"...it meant something other than making the spelling or sound of the "name" of God known. (Most of the Jews of his day already had a better handle on the Hebrew language than we do). 

 Even Pharoah of Egypt "knew" that part of it...But did he really "know" God ? . (Exodus 5:2)

Holman Christian Standard Bible

But Pharaoh responded, "Who is Yahweh that I should obey Him by letting Israel go? I do not know anything about Yahweh, and besides, I will not let Israel go."

YHWH:  The descriptive "name" of God.
 For us to routinely use that descriptive name, as if it were a proper name, may be the wrong thing to do.

Here is an interesting thought:  How would you address your earthly father?  You could call him "Father" or possibly "Dad".  
Out of respect for your father, would you call him by his first name?  Would you introduce him to your friends using his first name?
Would you introduce your earthly father by his descriptive name... as..."He who caused my birth"?  Would you introduce your earthly mother as "She that gave birth to me"?   
(I think most people would consider that disrespectful.)
Jesus is going to hand everything back over to his "Father".
(1 Cor 15:24, 28)   
When he does, God will become all things to everyone.  
If Jesus calls his Father..."Father", then what will we call him when we become God's earthly children?
Jesus told the Samaritan Woman at the well, that "True Worshipers" would worship the "Father" with spirit and truth, for indeed, the "Father" is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. 
(John 4:21, 23, 24)
It makes me wonder...since Jesus had many opportunities to verbally make the spelling and sound of God's descriptive "Name" known, then why didn't he?  Instead he simply and respectfully called God..."Father", as did the Apostles and disciples.  They all had ample opportunity to use the "Name", but if you search the scriptures,  it would be a difficult task without their original writings, to conclusively challenge the fact that this is absent.

The True God's name, a verb form of Hebrew, means "To be"..."He causes to become"...so he can be whatever he has to be to accomplish his purpose. He can cause to be whatever he will, to accomplish his purposes.  {Hebrew verb...hawah..."to be"}.

Knowing God's "name" means understanding him as fully as we humans can.  

It means having faith in the meaning of his name, that he will live up to his "Name"...specifically, the description of what his name means.  


Jesus would never have followed any man-made traditions.  Nor today, would he use any "man-made" names for God, as Bible translators do today, simply because that name was in use for a couple of centuries.

( The  J   is absent in Hebrew. The J that Bible translators use, comes from the Germanic language in much later centuries.
 Those translators also decided to place vowels from the Hebrew word Adonai as well. 
 In the Hebrew language ... the word "hovah" essentially means;  to destroy, ruin, disaster, to make mischief, according to some.  This descriptive "name"  more of a description of Satan, than it is of Almighty God...the one who creates and gives life). (Genesis 1:31)
The name "Hovah" fails to convey a creator of life and good.

     If we had the original manuscripts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John from the First Century, as well as all the original letters that Luke, Paul, Peter, James and John wrote, there would be little controversy as to whether Jesus used God's descriptive name as has been said by the Watchtower organization.       

     We fail to have the original First Century manuscripts. We only have parts from the second and third century at the earliest. Those could have been corrupted by the then already existing men of lawlessness.
    We are unable go back in time to the first century to hear whether they used the divine name. Were we there to listen to Jesus or his Apostles speak, we would be able to know, however, without this possibility to go back in time, to know how to "pronounce" the divine "name" would be even more difficult.
       God has promised that the understanding of the "scrolls" (bible) would be opened up to us in the time of the end. 

If Jesus called God "Father", then why not imitate him?
You can imitate Jesus. It is allowed.

Agape, 
Obadiah

 

https://nameofgodatobadiah.blogspot.com/2013/09/yhwh.html?m=1

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

To return to @Srecko Sostar 's topic : " After the death of the apostles, professing Christians left off pronouncing the name". 

 

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But to quote from Srecko's original topic. 

 In addition, some professing to be a part of the congregation have succumbed to perverted fleshly desires and have sexually abused children.

But some of those are Elders. So they must have been quite convincing in their 'professing to be part of the congregation'. 

WT Society publications going to explain with this terminology (professing JW member), how sinning is not just part of imperfect human character that all people inherited by Adam and Eve. As imperfect people we all are sinning, in every direction, in every sort of transgression, in various degrees.

Here they suggest how some individuals became part of JW's with bad motives. In regard to child abuse cases, sentence in article suggesting this sort of view:  Why? “Wicked men and impostors” abound, and some may try to enter the congregation. (2 Tim. 3:13)

Then, they continue with this sort of people inside congregation who doing same sin/crime:

In addition, some professing to be a part of the congregation have succumbed to perverted fleshly desires and have sexually abused children. This sort of people are people who can't help themselves. This evil inside them is too strong.

Next, in other article, they showed us third group of people inside congregation. After the Hebrew Scriptures were written, superstitious Jews considered the name Jehovah too holy even to be pronounced. They avoided pronouncing it because of fear of violating the Third Commandment.  What sort of people inside modern JW congregation could be superstitious and have fear? Not about speaking God's name, but about some other things, and with that to give their contribute in wrong things.

Fourth group described in article is: First the common people, who felt themselves unworthy to mention the name, left off pronouncing it. Again, how many congregants inside JWorg, consider themselves unworthy, and because of that sort of feeling, can do or can't do things, because of which they just professing own belonging to organization, but because of serious state of soul can be easily deceived or choose wrong path and bring to own fall.

As you can understand, we can use this details from these two articles in using them for various questions about doctrines, folkloric, traditions, instructions that are part of JW religion. And because all this what making JW member to be JW member, that is to go in line with directive from WT Society, we need to ask:

If old doctrines and instructions are substituted with new ones, does it means how JW members are, in every period of time and in all things that was error and wrong, just "professing to be part of true Congregation"? Because they accepted error teachings and they spread error teachings and they lived by error teachings. Intentionally or not. 

All that would make them to be "false, professed" Christians (or JW's) and not "true or genuine" ones. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

 How would you address your earthly father?

 

11 minutes ago, Witness said:

would you call him by his first name? 

I know one JW family from my ex congregation. Children are now grown and not going to meetings for very long time now. I think they never been baptized too. They call theirs mom and dad with names. Very strange custom, very strange to hear :))) 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I suppose it sounds strange or not, depending on the custom of a particular language and culture.

No one know how Jehovah's name is pronounced, but to me, "Yahweh", which might be more accurate, sounds very strange.

...like Kermit The Frog eating dragonfly ice cream ... it all depends on what you are used to.

[Witness]

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If old doctrines and instructions are substituted with new ones, does it means how JW members are, in every period of time and in all things that was error and wrong, just "professing to be part of true Congregation"? Because they accepted error teachings and they spread error teachings and they lived by error teachings. Intentionally or not. 

All that would make them to be "false, professed" Christians (or JW's) and not "true or genuine" ones. 

Using their reasoning, it makes you wonder who really were/are, the authentic "Jehovah's Witnesses" of the WT.  During the next meeting, all eight million will be assured they are the authentic ones, "Jehovah's chosen people." 

To add to their twisted ideas, they do believe this is the time of Harvest - the separating of the sheep and the goats.  This must also mean the separating of the "professed" JWs from the authentic JWs.   The "thousand year" reign of Christ is said to begin after the harvest period is finished; once Armageddon, "The Great Day of God the Almighty, is done. Rev 16:14   However, that time period of a literal thousand years to follow, is called a "judgment day", albeit a pleasant one, by the WT. Once this time period ends, there will be a second phase of weeding out the "professed" JWs, leaving only authentic JWs one more time,  to enjoy eternal life.  It is another "Great Day of God the Almighty".   

  We also know that Judgment Day will be a thousand years long and is fast approaching. (Rev. 20:4, 6) We do not fear Judgment Day, for we understand that it will bring untold blessings to those judged faithful. The fulfillment of our hope for a glorious future is guaranteed by the greatest of miracles—the resurrection of Jesus Christ!    w12 9/1 p. 17

Their teachings are an unending circle of confusion.  Redemption is now for eternity, if we choose it.  

 For he says: At an acceptable time I listened to you, and in the day of salvation I helped you. See, now is the acceptable time; now is the day of salvation!  2 Cor 6:2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Colin Browne]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I suppose it sounds strange or not, depending on the custom of a particular language and culture.

No one know how Jehovah's name is pronounced, but to me, "Yahweh", which might be more accurate, sounds very strange.

...like Kermit The Frog eating dragonfly ice cream ... it all depends on what you are used to.

 

On 1/21/2020 at 10:19 PM, 4Jah2me said:

From the Watchtower Library link @Srecko Sostar provided above. 

“This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel: ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name to eternity, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.” (Ex. 3:13-15) We, therefore, have the Creator’s own words for it that his name is Jehovah.

Um, not exactly, because the name Jehovah would not have been used. 

YHWH does not translate to Jehovah. 

Whenever they came across the tetragrammaton, JHVH, they studiously substituted the Hebrew words 

Quite funny as when I studied with JWs I was told it was YHWH but this W/t link says JHVH. Um, which is actually right I wonder ? 

The Tetragrammaton is the four-letter Hebrew word יהוה, the name of the biblical God of Israel. The four letters, read from right to left, are yodh, he, waw and he. While there is no consensus about the structure and etymology of the name, "the form Yahweh is now accepted 

Jehovah (/dʒɪˈhoʊvə/) is a Latinization of the Hebrew יְהֹוָה, one vocalization of the Tetragrammaton יהוה (YHWH), the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible^[1] and one of the seven names of God in Judaism.

The consensus among scholars is that the historical vocalization of the Tetragrammaton at the time of the redaction of the Torah (6th century BCE) is most likely Yahweh. The historical vocalization was lost because in Second Temple Judaism, during the 3rd to 2nd centuries BCE, the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton came to be avoided, being substituted with Adonai ("my Lord"). The Hebrew vowel points of Adonai were added to the Tetragrammaton by the Masoretes, and the resulting form was transliterated around the 12th century as Yehowah.^[2] The derived forms Iehouah and Jehovah first appeared in the 16th century.

"Jehovah" was popularized in the English-speaking world by William Tyndale and other pioneer English Protestant translations such as the Geneva Bible and the King James Version.^[3] The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops states that in order to pronounce the Tetragrammaton "it is necessary to introduce vowels that alter the written and spoken forms of the name", resulting in "Yahweh" or "Jehovah".^[4] It also remains in use by the Watchtower Society translators of the New World Translation, and appears in the still-popular translations of the American Standard Version (1901) and the Young's Literal Translation (1862, 1899), but it does not appear in current mainstream English translations, some of which use Yahweh but most continue to use "Lord" or "LORD" to represent same.^[5

^{Food for thought. Would the true Anointed use Jehovah or Yahweh ?} 

 

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