607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported?

[JW Insider]

55 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

a difference of a year or so would not be of consequence.

I think a difference of 10,000 years should not be of much consequence either. After all a day with Jehovah is 1,000 years, so in His eyes, it's only 10 days. A lot of this interest is built up because of the idea that the 7th day of creation, the day of rest from creating everything in 6 days, must take 7,000 years. Therefore, there would be 6,000 years of human existence (after Eve) and a 1,000 year reign all fitting into the 7th - 7,000 year day.

But none of that stuff about a 7,000 year day is in the Bible. When we realize that this is all conjecture and speculation, we should realize that we are trying to tread in an area that Jehovah said was only in his own jurisdiction: the times and the seasons. Even angels didn't delve into this topic, and angels know exactly when the first 6,000 years of the 7th creative day begin and end. Knowing that 90% of chronology in the Bible is determined through genealogies, we might also realize that Paul was right:

• (1 Timothy 1:4-7) . . .nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies. Such things end up in nothing useful but merely give rise to speculations rather than providing anything from God in connection with faith. 5 Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. 6 By deviating from these things, some have been turned aside to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of law, but they do not understand either the things they are saying or the things they insist on so strongly.

Verse 5, by the way, is a perfect alternative but positive statement about the objective of Christianity.

[Anna]

1 hour ago, Gone Fishing said:

And as for this continual regurgitating of old spiritual food, isn't a bit like trying to eat yesterday's manna? It was good at the time, and certainly did what Jehovah wanted it to do...then. But today? Don't we find it's just like the manna of old which , when saved beyond it's current need,  just "bred worms and stank"?
 

But today becomes tomorrow and one day we may be calling this the the manna of old. So really, what you are saying is that what we have now is good enough for the present time, but it could be replaced by something else in the future. In that case, it would be more truthful to call this spiritual food speculations, ideas and conjecture rather than facts and truths. 

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

what we have now is good enough for the present time, but it could be replaced by something else in the future

Exactly! 

1 hour ago, Anna said:

it would be more truthful to call this spiritual food speculations, ideas and conjecture rather than facts and truths.

You are not specific about what you are describing as "this spiritual food" here. But, just taking your remark generally, I cannot see a problem with any of the five items you list, as long as they are kept in their place and their relative importance understood. In other words, there is no need to "either/or" them.

I believe we will be in the postion described in scripture as needing the way of truth expounded more correctly for some considerable time to come, if not forever. Don't you?

 

 

 

 

[Arauna]

Thanks Nana - I was a coloratura soprano....  I only sing a few of the solo pieces by Handel now that I am 65 years old.  These arias were too low for me when I was younger. Handel's  soprano pieces were written for castrati.  Men sang female parts in those days! You therefore need a long breath for the phrases - something which castrati could easily cope with!

Back to our discussion: I find it so silly that persons on this forum say that a dream by a foreign king cannot represent Jehovah's kingdom - that it will be cut off for seven periods to be ruled by "gentiles"  and then restored.  People here think they know Jehovah better than he knows himself - they think he would not use an image like that!!!   But to my mind it is perfect! 

You see - most gentile kings were often assassinated by family members or their own sons who wanted to take the rulership. Jehovah perfectly preserved Nebuchadnezzar's kingship for him for 7 years - which is really remarkable - the same as he 'guaranteed the continuity' of the Davidic line. It helps us to see Jehovah's hand in the outworking of his purposes.  For what reason would Jehovah preserve a foreigner's personal rulership?  .... if it was not to use it as a picture of something.  Nebuchadnezzar was a nasty tyrant!  His children could easily have taken his place and kept the family line going until the end of  the 70 years. (If I remember correctly Neriglissar was murdered- he only ruled for 4 years.) Jehovah had a purpose for the dream just as he had a purpose for the dreams which Joseph had for a foreign pharaoh.   

There are many examples in the bible where Jehovah used 'unsuitable' people for prophetic pictures. I recall that Jehovah told a prophet to marry a whore and then forgive her whoring ways - she would produce sons who were not his. This would be prophetic of the behavior of israel. 

According to the person's thinking above - Jehovah would never do that!  So we better throw out these bits of the bible ....  Most of Daniel is prophetic anyway..... with history interwoven between the various visions and dreams.

Any case - as I demonstrated above - these people totally disregard the realities on the ground and keep on with 'debates' about unimportant bits (which they of course feel are more important that reality!)  The reality is that there is no other alternative to explain what respected historians have called " the year the world changed - 1914".

They never seem to answer these questions - just ramble on in their own worn out path..... 

Sifting out the gnats (the small bits in their close sightedness) and swallowing all the cockroaches! 

Missing out on the bigger picture!

[TrueTomHarley]

58 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

But amazingly unskilled, considering!

Odd. I am right now watching the movie Moneyball with my wife who likes it.

[TrueTomHarley]

43 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

Forced to reinvent his team on a tight budget, Beane will have to outsmart the richer clubs.

The cool things about recruiting Jehovah's Witnesses is that they work free.

43 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

recruiting bargain players that the scouts call flawed, but all of whom have an ability to get on base, score runs, and win games

You gotta admit, there is a parallel.

The movie was on pause when I posted last, so my wife could make popcorn which we will throw my daughter's dog a few kernels.

You would like it even without knowing about the game

[Noble Berean]

15 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The cool things about recruiting Jehovah's Witnesses is that they work free.

You gotta admit, there is a parallel.

The movie was on pause when I posted last, so my wife could make popcorn which we will throw my daughter's dog a few kernels.

You would like it even without knowing about the game

I'm a simple man. I see a dog...I upvote.

[Anna]

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

Missing out on the bigger picture!

I don't think that's neither a fair nor true assumption at all.

[Anna]

17 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

You are not specific about what you are describing as "this spiritual food" here. But, just taking your remark generally, I cannot see a problem with any of the five items you list,

I am talking about the interpretation of prophesy, especially about assigning specific dates to specific events.. 

I don't remember listing anything though... I think that must have been someone else

[Anna]

On 12/26/2017 at 5:51 PM, JW Insider said:

I would guess that as little time as possible is spent thinking about the mistake of 1914.

I would also guess that 1914 is here to stay because 

1. WW1, which is "on the ground" evidence as Arauna calls it, (even though originally it was supposed to be Armageddon).

2. Jesu's enthronement was invisible, so can't be disproved.

3. Most Witnesses don't have a clue about how we arrived at 1914 and of those who do, have no clue how we arrive at 607, and the few of those who do, have no clue as to why historians arrive at 587....and those even fewer who do, well...they are too few to make a difference...

[TrueTomHarley]

13 minutes ago, Anna said:

Most Witnesses don't have a clue about how we arrived at 1914 and of those who do, have no clue how we arrive at 607, and the few of those who do, have no clue as to why historians arrive at 587

I don't even have a clue as to how it will be 2018 in a week.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

On 12/26/2017 at 5:51 PM, JW Insider said:

I would guess that as little time as possible is spent thinking about the mistake of 1914.

I would also guess that 1914 is here to stay because 

1. WW1, which is "on the ground" evidence as Arauna calls it, (even though originally it was supposed to be Armageddon).

2. Jesu's enthronement was invisible, so can't be disproved.

3. Most Witnesses don't have a clue about how we arrived at 1914 and of those who do, have no clue how we arrive at 607, and the few of those who do, have no clue as to why historians arrive at 587....and those even fewer who do, well...they are too few to make a difference...

Except for the times I fell asleep reading this and other threads on this subject, I think ( ... because I know you care so very deeply about whats Ah thinks...) Anna's explanation is the best and most succinct that has real practical value.

Especially item No. 2.

When I teach the Bible, I do not need to teach anything about that ... as some people believe that touching frogs will give you warts ... and some people do not .... and it may be true with some frogs, but not others ... and I will not live long enough to test the supposition ... assuming I cared at all, which I do not.....

It took the Australian Royal Commission to trap Bro. Jackson into a year or more later forcing the GB to admit what is common sense ... that they are neither inspired, or infallible, which is an understatement.

One real reason I have for faith in Jehovah's Witnesses as a collection of people is what we do right, DESPITE being so totally clueless about many, many things.  It's like when a circus clown car wins the Indianapolis 500 race .... the only explanation is divine providence.

I get headaches from watching the "new lights" flash on and off, on and off, on and off ....and it does bother me a great deal when, while swimming through an ocean of Jello, to see others drowning in it, and falling away ... but such is the way of reality when you are dealing with pesky humans ... and I need to stop being so sensitive a snowflake and letting the heat get to me.

So, is the Society's explanation of 1914 accurate or not?    Of course it's not ... it's PROBABLY a constructed fantasy ..... like an air-raid siren that short circuits, and periodically gives false alarms ... and for a hundred years nobody knows how to fix it.

Or, for some strange reason ... it may be completely true. 

Does that mean we get rid of the air raid sirens?

No ....  I have 10 smoke alarms in my house ... and when I boil water in the kitchen or light a candle, some of them  go off, and sometimes I have to disconnect the battery, to keep the noise down

Does that mean I should get rid of the smoke alarms?

No..... it just means I have to know the difference between theory and reality, (coffee water steam, or raging house fire ...) or live life in a continuous fantasy induced panic state.

Same thing.

.....

Oh ... and expect NOTHING from humans.

You will never be disappointed.

Everybody ..... has an agenda.