How much are Watchtower Lawyers paid?

[Srecko Sostar]

2 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Can you explain to the visitor how shunning is violent? In that respect, when none believers shun a family member or a member of society because they are either drunkards, or drug addicts, how would that be a violent schism?

Are you such an uninformed visitor? I doubt.

[Dmitar]

2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Are you such an uninformed visitor? I doubt.

I'm talking about your mental state, not mind. This doesn't answer the question before you. When nonbelievers SHUN their family members or members of society because they are either "drunkards" or "drug addicts"? How is shunning violent?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:00 PM, Dmitar said:

I'm talking about your mental state, not mind. This doesn't answer the question before you. When nonbelievers SHUN their family members or members of society because they are either "drunkards" or "drug addicts"? How is shunning violent?

Yes but JWs are forced to shun ex-jws, and those ex-jws could well be innocent, free of the sins that the Elders condemn them for. In cases of CSA people have been removed from congregations for demanding that a pedophile be investigated or removed from the congregation. Sometime that pedophile is an Elder and the other elders protect the pedophile by removing or disfellowshipping the victims of sexual abuse.  Such cases have been proven in the courtrooms of the Superior Authorities. But some people don't want to believe vicitms of CSA, those people would sooner serve the GB and it's immoral Org. 

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes but JWs are forced to shun ex-jws, and those ex-jws could well be innocent, free of the sins that the Elders condemn them for.

Isn't that the point of doing a proper investigation by Elders, and whenever necessary, law enforcement?

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

In cases of CSA people have been removed from congregations for demanding that a pedophile be investigated or removed from the congregation.

You need to clarify this thought. What people?

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Sometime that pedophile is an Elder and the other elders protect the pedophile by removing or disfellowshipping the victims of sexual abuse.  Such cases have been proven in the courtrooms of the Superior Authorities.

If there has been an instance where a cover-up was proven by secular authority, the Watchtower would be in the same type of litigation the Vatican finds itself in. Thus far, it's been about individuals not applying secular laws before the government included clergy. You seem to forget that tidbit. Now, I understand former Jehovah's Witnesses claims, just not in the same sense you are claiming.

A perfect example would be with Cardinal Pell.

Cardinal Pell's Sexual Abuse Conviction Overturned By Australia's High Court The former Vatican treasurer, who had been the highest-ranking Roman Catholic cleric ever found guilty of sexual abuse, was ordered released from prison, where he was serving a six-year sentence.

What you are saying, the Australian government conspired with the Vatican to get a favorable outcome.

 

[Space Merchant]

17 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes but JWs are forced to shun ex-jws, and those ex-jws could well be innocent

From what some of us know, they shun the excommunicated of the church. Blood ties excluded, but Church ties is deemed from this action. Then there is Apostasy, in which one is to use shun command (Expelling) outright, especially when there are situation where people weaponize ill acts against people and or their faith, in this case, CSA. Not to mention weaponizing CSA also causes child predators to be lured into an institution, a recent situation was done in regards to the social media space, actually 2, in which a potential danger is met.

Not to mention the fact any EXJW who actually have solutions, is shut down by disgruntled EXJWs.

It should also be noted there are 3 known forms of Excommunication, in which shunning is connected to it. I believe this was explained to you when you went by the name Butler and 4Jah2me. The only reason there is a view about it is because Mainstream Christianity's version of Excommunication differs, in which they view the latter as not Biblical and or shouldn't be used, to cut out a subnet of Excommunication. It can also be noted, perhaps the notation attest to the fact how people view the modern term of shunning vs the Biblical.

Even outside of religion, the practice is applied by others, to Excommunicate, also to shun (Expel).

It should also be noted that this command associated with Excommunication didn't start with Jehovah's Witnesses, granted it was around for a while. It can also be noted minor or major actions can lead to grounds of Excommunication resulting in the effects used.

[Space Merchant]

On 2/23/2022 at 2:51 PM, Dmitar said:

Can you explain to the visitor how shunning is violent? In that respect, when none believers shun a family member or a member of society because they are either drunkards, or drug addicts, how would that be a violent schism?

Well this is true, even outside of any faith community the Shunning Command is a practice in society, even outside of such addictions, i.e. a person committed an act that effects the family, therefore, the person is excommunicated, so to speak, from the family, and is shunned to others, limited contact if the minor action results in the latter being repentant for their action.

That being said, I've seen my fair share of people being ostracized by their family/relatives in broad daylight. And this continues, for some who repented for their actions, others, continue to dwell even further into a rebellious nature, to the extreme actions where there is bodily harm and or death.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

7 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

even outside of any faith community the Shunning Command is a practice in society

You revealed new light for me. You mentioned the expression "Shunning Command" that exist "outside of any faith community".

I would like to know who or what imposes such a “commandment” on people who are not believers? 

Also, do such “infidels” you mention bear any consequences if they don’t want to apply the “shunning command” to their loved ones or to some other people around them?

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You revealed new light for me. You mentioned the expression "Shunning Command" that exist "outside of any faith community".

This isn't new, it was talked about before, and the notation of Excommunication existed from the 1st century church and onward. It is related to the binding and loosening of the church itself.

The only reason why many, even EXJWs see it as outlandish is because Mainstream Christendom has already put in the idea into many a totally different view of mercy and Excommunication, the facts speak for itself when you simply do research, the majority against this is Mainstream Christendom and those who adhere to their influence.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I would like to know who or what imposes such a “commandment” on people who are not believers? 

In Matthew 16, the keys were entrusted to the followers of Christ, and from there, the actions in regards to the church. Excommunication took on different forms centuries later, and in present day, Mainstream Christianity sees the old ways of Excommunication as a problem, and those who follow any of what was originally present.

In that passage we can see that Jesus is solemnly entrusting the Church with the power to bind and loosen, and this is closely tied with the Church’s ability to excommunicate unrepentant sinners. And it’s more than just an ability. Jesus actually instructs it as the appropriate course of action to be taken in the case of certain unrepentant sinners. They are be ostracized, in the way that the Jews of the time treated Gentiles and tax collectors, therefore, the action of Expelling, is enacted, a cut away from the Church. There are also examples of Excommunication of this level in the Greek New Testament.

It can also be noted that Expelling, hence Shunning Command is further noted/connected to passages like 1 Corinthians 5:11–13 and Matthew 18:15–17 (and ref.), suggest shunning command as an internal practice of early Christians and are cited as such by  practitioners within Christianity today outside of the Mainstream. It is rare for a Mainstreamer to use it, however, there are cases, as of recent, a Pastor complaining publicly (claiming) about immoral blaspheming Witches in his Church.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Also, do such “infidels” you mention bear any consequences if they don’t want to apply the “shunning command” to their loved ones or to some other people around them?

I do not use the term "Infidels". I am not a Mainstream Christian, therefore, I do not go around the notation of Excommunication.

Within Christianity, there tend to be three major views of the place of Excommunication:

1. We shouldn’t excommunicate anyone, because it’s not merciful.
2. We should excommunicate, because we want to purify the Church of the damned.
3. We should excommunicate, because it’s merciful to sinners.

It is evident as to which one is used and by whom. It can be noted possibly the worse form of Excommunication is Herem, is the highest ecclesiastical censure, perhaps even beyond the shunning command itself, Biblically speaking.

All forms of Excommunication and or Expelling is a practice outside of religion, also, you were already told this in the past.

[Srecko Sostar]

8 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

This isn't new, it was talked about before, and the notation of Excommunication existed from the 1st century church and onward. It is related to the binding and loosening of the church itself.

The only reason why many, even EXJWs see it as outlandish is because Mainstream Christendom has already put in the idea into many a totally different view of mercy and Excommunication, the facts speak for itself when you simply do research, the majority against this is Mainstream Christendom and those who adhere to their influence.

In Matthew 16, the keys were entrusted to the followers of Christ, and from there, the actions in regards to the church. Excommunication took on different forms centuries later, and in present day, Mainstream Christianity sees the old ways of Excommunication as a problem, and those who follow any of what was originally present.

In that passage we can see that Jesus is solemnly entrusting the Church with the power to bind and loosen, and this is closely tied with the Church’s ability to excommunicate unrepentant sinners. And it’s more than just an ability. Jesus actually instructs it as the appropriate course of action to be taken in the case of certain unrepentant sinners. They are be ostracized, in the way that the Jews of the time treated Gentiles and tax collectors, therefore, the action of Expelling, is enacted, a cut away from the Church. There are also examples of Excommunication of this level in the Greek New Testament.

It can also be noted that Expelling, hence Shunning Command is further noted/connected to passages like 1 Corinthians 5:11–13 and Matthew 18:15–17, suggest shunning command as an internal practice of early Christians and are cited as such by  practitioners within Christianity today outside of the Mainstream. It is rare for a Mainstreamer to use it, however, there are cases, as of recent, a Pastor complaining publicly about immoral blaspheming Witches in his Church.

I do not use the term "Infidels". I am not a Mainstream Christian, therefore, I do not go around the notation of Excommunication.

Within Christianity, there tend to be three major views of the place of Excommunication:

1. We shouldn’t excommunicate anyone, because it’s not merciful.
2. We should excommunicate, because we want to purify the Church of the damned.
3. We should excommunicate, because it’s merciful to sinners.

It is evident as to which one is used and by whom. It can be noted possibly the worse form of Excommunication is Herem, is the highest ecclesiastical censure, perhaps even beyond the shunning command itself, Biblically speaking.

All forms of Excommunication and or Expelling is a practice outside of religion, also, you were already told this in the past.

Your very long respond didn't answer simple question i nicely ask you to answer! 

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Well this is true, even outside of any faith community

What does it mean when you put statement; "outside of any faith community"? 

Outside of JW and every religious group? If so, why you put explanation that is religiously shaped?

 

[Space Merchant]

12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Your very long respond didn't answer simple question i nicely ask you to answer! 

It wasn't that long, it was half a page. I did answer for it is in that response.

12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What does it mean when you put statement; "outside of any faith community"? 

It means that people who are not even religious can ostracized someone and or something from a home, household, family, group, community, institution, etc. Example, Billy caused several school fights even after suspension and pranked several teachers, put a glue on the Principal's chair, thus ruining his suit, therefore, Billy is Expelled permanently from school and his record is effected. The school is no longer in contact with Billy due to Billy's actions, Billy cannot graduate from said school, and due to the chances he was given, no option for an appeal, hence he is essentially ostracized, even shunned by the institution, should be attempt to come back, the school can call the police on Billy.

Mind you this is a minor example of a form what is stated in the latter.

12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Outside of JW and every religious group?

Although JWs and most Christian practice Excommunication, a level of this is in practice outside of all Abrahamic Faiths. This was already mentioned.

12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If so, why you put explanation that is religiously shaped?

I explained it in regards to Christianity as is outside of The Abrahamic Faiths as is mentioned the most serious one of them all.

That being said there is indeed a level of ostracization and shunning in practice, even in various communities.

[Dmitar]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Well this is true, even outside of any faith community the Shunning Command is a practice in society, even outside of such addictions, i.e. a person committed an act that effects the family, therefore, the person is excommunicated, so to speak, from the family, and is shunned to others, limited contact if the minor action results in the latter being repentant for their action.

Of course. There are many other reasons why society feels it's necessary to shun others. However, I wanted to keep my example short with those two. But, thanks