Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?

[Space Merchant]

On 9/26/2021 at 11:49 AM, Pudgy said:

Of course not, but that WOULD HAVE been an unintended consequence other than the clearly stated goal of the project, which was to influence the Russian Government to stop the persecution of the Brotherhood.

There was a lot that took place in Russia around the time the JWs got banned prior, during and after. Essentially, it is like that of someone lighting a match to a flame. So a lot of things took place, cooled down slightly after Putin won..... (by a landslide.) then you have the events of Alexei Navalny and his allies, Homosexuals disappearing off the streets and sent to camps, and the emergence of the FSB and hacker groups using FindFace to track not only Alexei Navalny allies, but falsely brand anyone associated with him, including Religious people. Moreover, it has nothing to do with politics, but the claim of them being extremist more of a push to remove them even, in addition, to many things mentioned by Kremlin controlled media.

It was technically a Triad in Russia that ultimately caused these things.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 9/26/2021 at 1:42 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

It’s always worth a shot to try to avert injustice in any given place,

Yes, and remember that. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 9/26/2021 at 1:42 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

and the more publicity unjust persecution receives, the better.

Yes, and remember this too

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 9/26/2021 at 3:17 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

I’ve never heard anyone but you express any desire to see them.

Um, a bit of a giveaway Tom. Sorry James. 

[Pudgy]

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

On 9/26/2021 at 11:17 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

I’ve never heard anyone but you express any desire to see them.

Um, a bit of a giveaway Tom. Sorry James. 

In any conflict between Nations, either on the battlefield, or in the cultures, or in this case, a Tribe (JWs), and a Nation (Russia), the first casualty is Truth.

"Make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine." is apparently a casualty of this conflict .... shot in the back from "Friendly Fire".

Not only that, the very concept of "making sure" is disparaged as an unnecessary unimportant chore, worthy of disdain.

Very, very sad.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 9/28/2021 at 11:14 AM, Pudgy said:

"Make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine." is apparently a casualty of this conflict .... shot in the back from "Friendly Fire".

I don't understand who you are accusing of what here ??? 

Who was 'shot in the back from friendly fire' ?  And who did the shooting ? 

 

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I don't understand who you are accusing of what here ??? 

Who was 'shot in the back from friendly fire' ?  And who did the shooting ? 

People turning on their neighbors, being friendly and welcoming and in an instant in fear of the Kremlin or be twisted by them become foe/enemy, likewise with those who once welcomed them., even the schools were some professors allowed bullying of those of the faith. This happened numerous times in Russia, even prior to and during the JW ban. There were videos that were presented by their media that got people to shift attitude towards those the Kremlin, The Church and the Duma deem a threat.

Some of this stuff may still be around if not scrubbed like the hacker website going after people in Russia via FindFace.

[Space Merchant]

17 hours ago, Pudgy said:

In any conflict between Nations, either on the battlefield, or in the cultures, or in this case, a Tribe (JWs), and a Nation (Russia), the first casualty is Truth.

Truth has always been a causality in Russia, mainly due to the fact that the media in of itself is controlled by the Kremlin itself. Reminds me of when Putin won, no one really questioned how everyone was very behind while Putin was literally x5~ in percent up during the election. Then there was the situation with Ramzan Kadyrov. He won also recently and it was literally overkill in the percentages (99.6%).

Likewise with other areas in such as US allies the UK, France, even Germany. Asia is another one, mainly concerning China, and their eyes being set on Taiwan, in which the US, and their allies are afraid to speak in support of Taiwan without any consequence.

[hgp]

Am 26.9.2021 um 07:27 schrieb Pudgy:

Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?

This question makes one huge assumption: In Russia court transcripts exist und get published. I couldn't find any hint, that this is a fact. And if there are no court transscripts, then the answer is simple: you can't translate, what doesn't exist.

Leaving this question aside: if there are court transscripts, then there is the question: why would any sane person take the trouble and translate thousands of pages of court transscripts? Translating costs money. In the case of these court transscripts this can easily be several ten thousands dollars and many months of work even taking into account the JW translating facilities.

But: No one pays them. The translators are volunteers and part of an organisation of volunteers. They work on what they as an organisation think is important. For them providing translations of transscripts that they think are an obvious part of a sham is just not high on the priority list.

So why on earth would they leave much more important translating work (from their point of view) lying around to satisfy the curiosity of a handful of people on the other side of the planet? The answer is: they don't think, that they should work for months just for the sake of someone sitting around on the internet. Their advise would probably be: If you want to know what is written in these transscripts then use your time to learn Russian and read it for yourself or pay a translator for yourself.

This last point would be really easy if there were a real demand for this translation: On the internet you could easily find those people with a crowdfunding page. The money for the translator would be provided by them in no time if they cared. The absence of such a page and people giving their money to such a page indicates that really no one cares enough for those transcripts to get translated (or that they don't exist to get translated .

This probably sound harsher than I mean it but I'm not that good expressing myself in my third language.

[Pudgy]

Another good question would be to ask is:

Why would any sane person have 5 of 8 million Brothers write 48 million letters, each at international postage rates, to lobby the outcome of a Russian kangaroo  court system, where the outcome was decided (obviously, to all sane people ….), BEFORE the trial started?

If it was a bribe attempt, funneling $57,000,000 through the Universal Postal Union, which the Russian Government did get …. It was a complete failure, as nothing was achieved except to enrich the Russians. 

Show trials in Russia are just political theater to consolidate and enhance political power and authority, and perhaps …. just perhaps …. sucker someone into a useless and very expensive lobbying effort. 

In the USA, Congress does most of the political theater …. Usually tragic self-destructive comedy.

 

[hgp]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Pudgy:

Why would any sane person have 5 of 8 million Brothers write 48 million letters, each at international postage rates, to lobby the outcome of a Russian kangaroo  court system, where the outcome was decided (obviously, to all sane people ….), BEFORE the trial started?

One point before answerig the question: Why would a sane person knowing the points that are contained in your question,  ask for a costly translation of court transcripts that obviously are without worth when taking into account your points?

Or more directly: Why do you ask for a costly translation of court transcripts that you yourself think worthless?

Now answering the question: The question contains an obviously false assumption: No one thought this to be an effort to lobby the outcome of a court trial or some sort of bribe. No one really thought that these letters would convince the Russian government to stop persecuting their peaceful JW citicens. No one did really suggest that it would do this.

The letter, where the Governing Body asked the JW to write those letters contained the following goals:

1. drawing international attention to the situation.

2. giving evidence of one's love for their brothers in Russsia

3. support fellow Christians who face persecution

Since these goals are obviously sensible and were achieved by the campaign there is no need to look for other hidden agendas that contain obviously not sensible reasons.

[TrueTomHarley]

47 minutes ago, hgp said:

The letter, where the Governing Body asked the JW to write those letters contained the following goals:

1. drawing international attention to the situation.

2. giving evidence of one's love for their brothers in Russsia

3. support fellow Christians who face persecution

Since these goals are obviously sensible and were achieved by the campaign there is no need to look for other hidden agendas that contain obviously not sensible reasons.

Thank you. That ought to put a muzzle on the crazed mutt once and for all. Alas, I doubt it will.