Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?

[Witness]

Many thanks again, to @James Thomas Rook Jr. for showing such tolerance.  

On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:

Zion is the heavenly Jerusalem  (government under Jesus) Hebrews 12:22 which is now leading the slave.   You twist things to suit yourself.

You are right, Zion is the heavenly “New Jerusalem”, but maybe you didn’t read what the Watchtower stated – about Zion being the organization?  How have I twisted Watchtower’s own words?   Wt. 15/7/15  pp. 7-11

On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:

Additionally, you have not answered my questions.  Do you preach every day  in public?

Yes, I am doing that right now, but not counting my time.  Are you? I believe I have been all over the public “map”, called “Jehovah’s Witnesses”.  Rev 11:1-3

Shouldn’t a good “witness” be one that testifies in truth?  What good is “preaching” if it is laced with lies?  If the Catholics came to your door preaching the trinity, how would you feel? Would you believe them? 

If, while in your “preaching work”, you meet the same person at the door that initially received the Awake! magazine on 1975* from your very hands, ten years prior; how do you think THEY would feel about your “preaching work” and the “spiritually nourishing food” you pass on from the “faithful slave”?  Do you expect them to receive you warmly?  Should they overlook a false prophesy as JWs are cajoled into doing, convincing you to believe it is right with God?  Jer 5:31; 12:6; Rom 16:18

On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:

And do you belong to a congregation where you can attend meetings?   You know you are told to do both by scripture! 

Yes, would you like me to give you a link?  It is called the anointed Body of Christ – those anointed who have been spiritually “killed” – disfellowshipped -  for their testimony of Christ, not for an organization.  There are many brethren who have joined them.   Luke 17:31-17; Rev 12:6

On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:

And if you do preach - do you preach about the Kingdom?

Yes, in truth, not under the guise that it was “born”in 1914, only to be followed by “birth pangs”.  Matt 24:8  Truly, an unnatural phenomena.

On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:

That is a future government? with subjects on earth?  And a government of 144,000 in heaven?

I don’t believe you have read much that I have written here, which will give you more information on these questions. 

One thing I don’t do is accept men and their rules who “guide” the sheep by their rulebook, and not the Bible.

 “If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations:  “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”?  All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines. ²³ Although these have a reputation for wisdom by promoting self-made religion, false humility, and severe treatment of the body, they are not of any value in curbing self-indulgence.”  Col 2:20-23

They are self-serving; people take pride in a title they receive by following men’s regulations; and with it, are special privileges given them.  This is the basis of the Watchtower’s religion. 

On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:

The most important TEACHINGS  are SPOT ON.... !

Like this one?  “Come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation”  Wt 81/11/15

Or, is it this one?  “We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry – be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization.”  Wt. 90/11/1

 

Have you ever wondered  why Jesus told his disciples not to go from “house to house”, a command by Jesus which the Watchtower completely ignores? Luke 10:7 The soldiers of Herod were bent on killing the promised seed, the “firstborn”, Jesus Christ; the most efficient way was go “house to house” killing all the firstborn males, whomever they were.  Matt 2:16-18    

Where are the “firstfruits”/anointed ones and many others now found, but in the organization?  How did they get there and why are they there? Gal 3:29,26 They were introduced to a taste of truth, which lead to their “captivity” to lies.  Rev 12:17; Matt 2:18; Rev 13:7; 11:7; 6:9-11; Rev 13:10 Jesus well knew of this “delusion” that would come upon God’s people. 2 Thess 2:1-12

Because of their choice to leave Christ and follow an idol, God allows it to happen to his “royal priesthood” and any others who fall for it.  It becomes their period of tribulation and refinement.  Rev 2:14; 3:18

In both Matt 10 and Mark 13, Jesus highlights the warnings he gave to his disciples.  Remember, his disciples are to preach to all the nations of Israel – God’s people. 

“I came to the lost sheep of Israel”

 Today’s “Israel” are the anointed ones.

 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.  But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues.”  Matt 10:16,17

And Jesus, answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. ⁶ For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many.

“The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the Governing Body, they are in fact following their leader, Christ.  Wt 9/15/2010” 

 "You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles". Matt 10:18

“But watch out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to councils, and you will be beaten in the synagogues. You will be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them”  Mark 13:9

Councils, governors, kings, synagogues, wolves.  The “Governing Body”, who, as anointed ones are “kings”, (1 Cor 4:8) symbolically “scourge” other anointed for their “testimony” of Christ. Matt 24:48-51This testimony is given to all “Gentiles” in the congregations/synagogues, and it is the “Gentile” “council” who spiritually “kills” them for doing so. Rev 2:9; 13:15; 11:7; Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1,2  Many anointed ones, as well as other JWs,  have written letters to the congregations; exposing their lies and giving their full testimony – of Christ, whom they come to realize, is their only Head. 

Matt 10:21,22; Mark 13:12,13 clearly show fulfillment when one is disfellowshipped and considered “dead”; all for Christ’s sake.  They are hated, and called apostates; losing their families – for the name of Jesus.  Matt 5:10,11; John 15:18-21

If you were to withdraw your eyes away from Satan’s world and look at the spiritual war and “earthquakes” between “nations” and “kingdoms” that involves the anointed, as they battle for either truth or lies; you would realize the Great Tribulation is upon us.  Mark 13:24,25; Amos 9:9;Haggai 2:6,9; Heb 12:26-28; 2 Tim 2:3,4; 2 Cor 10:4,5

“When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”  Matt 10:23

This isn’t speaking of the literal nation of Israel, is it. Rev 7:4;21:12  

Jesus brought “truth” to God’s people, as well as the cry to repent from their sins.  The “two witnesses” (meaning “truth”) are those Jesus sends to the “holy people” during the time of the end, declaring they are to “come out of her, my people”.  Rev 18:4-8; Zech chapter 4; Rev 11:1-7; (1 Cor 3:16,17)

This inspection and cleansing of God’s entire Temple/priesthood (1 Pet 2:5,9,10) certainly didn’t meet Christ’s approval during the years of1914-1919, as the Watchtower says.  It is rather blatantly clear as to why.   They were…

-         Preaching that the “battle of the great day of God Almighty” (Rev. 16:14), would end in A.D. 1915

-         Or that the “1000 years of Christ’s reign began in 1873

-         That in 1918 God would destroy all churches

-         That in 1925, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old” would return to human form

-          preparing for the world to end in 1925

Although, they will have you believe Christ was happy with all of this.   (w14 11/15 pp. 28-30)  There were lies in their mouths then; and now, as they do their best to cover them over. Deut 18:20; Mal 3:1-3; 2 Pet 3:14; Rev 21:25-27

“For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.”  Matt 10:26b

The “good news” is the restoration of “Jacob” – spiritual “Israel” -  which has its fulfillment OUTSIDE of the Watchtower Idol.  Isa 44:22; 48:20

*Awake!  Is it Later Than You Think?  Is Time Running Out for This Generation?  What will the 1970’s Bring?  October 8, 1968

 

[Witness]

On 10/22/2017 at 6:29 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

She is the truly annointed one, she says, so does she do anything that one would reasonably expect an annointed one to do? How can you not ask those things?

What is it that you are expecting?

“Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw the city full of idols.  So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who met him.  Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers alsowere conversing with him. Some said, “What does this babbler want to say?”

Others said, “He seems to be advocating foreign deities,” because he preached Jesus and the resurrection.

 They took hold of him, and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new teaching is, which is spoken by you?  For you bring certain strange things to our ears. We want to know therefore what these things mean.”  Now all the Athenians and the strangers living there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell or to hear some new thing.

 Paul stood in the middle of the Areopagus, and said, “You men of Athens, I perceive that you are very religious in all things.  For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ What therefore you worship in ignorance, this I announce to you. The God who made the world and all things in it, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, doesn’t dwell in temples made with hands,  neither is he served by men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself gives to all life and breath, and all things.  He made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the surface of the earth, having determined appointed seasons, and the boundaries of their dwellings,  that they should seek the Lord, if perhaps they might reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 

 ‘For in him we live, and move, and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his offspring.’ Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man.  The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent,  because he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained; of which he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.”

Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked; but others said, “We want to hear you again concerning this.”

 Thus Paul went out from among them.  But certain men joined with him, and believed, among whom also was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.”  Acts 17:16-34

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

Fair enough. She answered the questions. And then some.

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, Witness said:

Where are the “firstfruits”/anointed ones and many others now found, but in the organization?  How did they get there and why are they there? Gal 3:29,26 They were introduced to a taste of truth, which lead to their “captivity” to lies.  Rev 12:17; Matt 2:18; Rev 13:7; 11:7; 6:9-11; Rev 13:10 Jesus well knew of this “delusion” that would come upon God’s people. 2 Thess 2:1-12

This common foundation in many of your posts confuses me. I've heard something like it before from a person who became an apostate. He thought that JWs were wrong on just about everything except moral standards, war/neutrality, Trinity and Hell. He was disfellowshipped for apostasy and holds the confusing idea that he needs to get back in so he can warn people to "get out of her, my people."

I'm curious as to why you think that all the anointed alive at this time were attracted to join this particular organization if this organization is so full of delusion, false prophecy, false directives, abusive and lying leadership, etc. Is it your opinion that Jehovah somehow makes it happen that all anointed go through a kind of tribulation through this particular organization?

[Witness]

On 10/24/2017 at 12:04 AM, JW Insider said:

This common foundation in many of your posts confuses me. I've heard something like it before from a person who became an apostate. He thought that JWs were wrong on just about everything except moral standards, war/neutrality, Trinity and Hell. He was disfellowshipped for apostasy and holds the confusing idea that he needs to get back in so he can warn people to "get out of her, my people."

 

I don’t know what the person you mention thought he would accomplish by going back into the organization, or even how he thought he could get reinstated if not through some sort of deception.  Jesus predicted we would be “thrown out of the synagogues/”congregations” by those who believe they are serving God in doing so.  Acts 9:20; 2 Cor 4:5; 1 Cor 1:22,23; Matt 10:17,18; John 16:2; Rev 13:15,16

During an anointing the “token” of holy Spirit is put into one’s heart, which allows them to see truth. 2 Cor 1:21,22 1 Cor 13:9,10  Individually; yet, as a collective Body, Holy Spirit avails knowledge more abundantly through all. 2 Cor 3:4,5; 1 Cor 6:19; 12:22 We will see this in completeness when the gathering of the Bride/the Temple is finished. It cannot be comprehend it in the organization, since they are told to remain separate from one another, not even to study the Bible together.  Surely, that should make one question why this is so, especially since an elder body works together freely.  God’s anointed ones are “scattered” in this way deliberately by Satan, since he knows the power of the holy ones; he knows that it is through their connection with Christ, that he will be destroyed.  Rev 12:7-9  Everything he can do to keep them apart, quiet and in submission to the GB and elders, buys him time. 

But why the organization.

During this time of the end, Satan must make the deflecting offer from following Christ completely (not through a person or an organization John 4:21-24) as enticing as possible, well-cloaked as “truth”, “different” than any deceitful tactic he has ever used against God’s people.  Dan 7:23; 2 Pet 2:1-3 He baits with basic pure truth, which the organization initially offers. Rev 8:10,11 God allows it; he allows Satan to do this, but he has given us its identity in Revelation and through many scriptures, if we seek out its understanding.   The prophetic words of Jesus, the earlier prophets, and the apostles can help discern the trap.   The organization, as beautiful and as enticing as it may seem, is very close to bringing the power of the holy ones to nothing. Dan 12:7   It has been a gradual process that is reaching a climax.  The anointed remnant faces the most powerful deceitful foe to come upon any anointed one since Christ; because from them, the remaining ‘living stones’ of the Temple will be set in place as the capstone. Zech 4:7,6; 1 Cor 1:28,29  The Kingdom arrives once that is accomplished.  Their test is unique as they face the fourth beast of Daniel and Revelation’s two Beasts. 

On 10/24/2017 at 12:04 AM, JW Insider said:

Is it your opinion that Jehovah somehow makes it happen that all anointed go through a kind of tribulation through this particular organization?

God never creates the deception; Satan does.  God never does the destroying, it is all from Satan and those who sell off their “inheritance”.   1 Pet 5:8; 2 Cor 2:11; Rev 12:7,15, 17; 1 Tim 4:1; Matt 24:4,5; 24,25; Heb 12:14-16

While the Watchtower focuses on the world’s literal signs as fulfillment of the end, very few notice the symbolic signs that are affecting God’s authentic priesthood.  Very few see that the “Gentile” elder body should not “represent” the “royal priesthood”.  Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1-3; Ezek 44:6-9  Very few can discern that the individual sacrifices of praise in various gifts and forms of the anointed ones, have been extinguished by a “wicked slave” and its own “Body of elders”; because what the physical eye takes in, is so much grander in scope than the symbolic spiritual signs. Matt 16:2,3 This is Satan’s excelling accomplishment, to create the delusion using his worldly power; because as he said to Christ, all that is in the world “has been delivered to me”. Luke 4:6,7  He has produced a successful counterfeit, bringing literal meaning to Jesus’ words in Matt 24, including a physical earthly organization called “Zion”.

Jesus’ own tests and trials, which were put on him by Satan, were conquered through his obedience to God, resulting in his perfect holiness. All authority, both in heaven and on earth, has now been given to him. Matt 28:18  This ignites the battle between Christ and his Truth, Satan and his lies.   His priests (Is1 a 43:10; Pet 2:5,9,10) must imitate his obedience in order to also receive their “kingly” authority.  They must become just like Christ, worthy to be his Bride, and to see God.  They must sacrifice their lives under the “New Covenant” promise of life, bringing life to the rest of God’s children through the Kingdom covenant. Rev 12:11 Through the Wt’s condemnation that one who speaks in Jesus’ name is considered spiritually “dead”, the anointed and many others, lose their “life” they had previously known in the organization, to gain eternal life in Christ.  Heb 13:10-16; John 15:20,21; Luke 9:24; 17:33

Heb 5:8,9 – “though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered. ⁹ Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation”

Heb 4:15 - For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way as we are, yet without sin.

 Phil 2:8 “he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death -- even to death on a cross.”

Although we know how the apostles suffered for their steadfast faith, never have we seen any anointed leader in the organization suffer as Christ did.  It should make one sit up and take notice. They appear to be immune from suffering for Christ’s sake; the reason is clear through the scriptures.  Rev 13:11,12; 2 Cor 11:12-15

 The organization teaches it is the only way to achieve spiritual security, which produces a state of sleepiness among the “virgins”, just one of Jesus’ parables that can be applied to the climate the anointed and JWs live under in the organization.  Matt 25:6-13; 22:8-10

“James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ: To the twelve tribes dispersed abroad. Greetings. 2 Consider it a great joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you experience various trials, because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its full effect, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing.

We are all having our faith tested, we are all being judged for our desire to either follow a delusion or the pureness of God’s Word in Christ. To reach the latter, we turn completely toward God during the end times by walking away from symbolic “Babylon”, the covenant/promise of death.  Isa 28:1-22

2 Thess Chapter 2:

Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you  not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Christ had come. (“God’s Kingdom Rules” – 1914)

Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction, ⁴ he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22     (“Representing the royal priesthood” are the elders, “standing in the “holy place” – Matt 24:15; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16)

Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming; (John 20:22; Rev 11:1-3,6,7,18)  even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (Rev 13:13) and with all deception of wickedness for those who are being lost, because they didn’t receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  Because of this, God sends (Luke 22:31) them a working of error, that they should believe a lie;  that they all might be judged who didn’t believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 

The Watchtower says that Armageddon is looming, giving their interpretation of the Beasts in Revelation.  Yet, nothing in that realm of vision has attacked the “holy ones”/saints” or surrounded them, except the Watchtower.  They twist the abomination of Matt 24:15 to be “a” holy place in Christendom.  The literal fulfillment of this scripture concerned Jerusalem.  Today, it is spiritual “Jerusalem” that is under attack.  Rom 2:28,29

On 10/24/2017 at 12:04 AM, JW Insider said:

if this organization is so full of delusion, false prophecy, false directives, abusive and lying leadership, etc.

It is all there, to the extreme.

Delusion – that God says we need an earthly organization even though his Son said nowhere physically are we to worship, except in spirit and truth. John 4:24; Rev 13:11,12,14

False prophesy – too many to mention.

False directives – the GB has already admitted to this.

Abusive and lying leadership – “But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers (Elder Body) of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great (GB) exercise authority over them.  Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”  Matt 20:25-28

[JW Insider]

@Witness Thanks for responding. Too much to respond to right now, but I never had the impression that many who claim to be of the anointed have concerns about doctrinal differences anyway. There are often quirky persons among them, but in my experience, they seem to be quite loyal to the GB, and among the GB themselves, they seem quite loyal to the existing doctrines.

Wasn't GB member Martin Poetzinger a person who had gone through Nazi persecution? He never spoke much when I was at Bethel, even though he was on the Governing Body, so I never heard him tell his own experiences, but I understand he spent a total of 8 or 9 years in concentration camps.

[Arauna]

18 hours ago, Witness said:

Individually; yet, as a collective Body, Holy Spirit avails knowledge more abundantly through all

So the organization must create a "special" place just for those who claim to be of the "righteous anointed" so the 'power' can work through them in a collective way? Or give them a prominent place in each congregation and allow some "deceivers" who claim to be anointed in amongst them?  How do you separate the deceivers who internally have a love of prominence and secret power.  ........ but wait ........... the anointed  already have an opportunity to serve as ministerial servants or elders on a 'body of elders ' in each congregation and can "contribute" their wisdom and humility by 'washing the feet of the others' and not taking prominent places! 

We already have a central organization in which these super-anointed with special insight  could be part and work together on the "committees" to send out the food at proper time and not just 'edify themselves'.  (oh yes - I remember now that ALL members on the committee must agree with all the points being published - otherwise they cannot be published - and they are NOT all anointed..... (too  bad the organization uses some of the non-anointed and do not use the ideas of one person only). But those who manage to stay humble and serve on the committees already contribute their lives to the washing of the 'feet of others' .... and not run ahead with their own information. (Direct order from bible)  

Jesus had all the information of his previous life...... I know only of a few places where he gave us glimpses of this in what he said but never to draw attention to himself!  I have known a few people who say they are anointed and I have also seen those who take their anointing so seriously as a "personal responsibility"....... I am a bit skeptical of those. The reason....... Jehovah will never choose people who have a good chance of breaking their integrity.  They will be tried and tested (suffer) before they are chosen...... and after this they also have to be proven before he seals them.  I think that Satan or self-delusion can make people think they are anointed and then take emblems unworthily . If they do not repent of their error they can find themselves outside the organization and working "against the other anointed". I am not saying you are - but the possibility exists. 

However, the impracticalities coming forward from your "complaints" against their use of the term "Zion" does not sound logical..... mostly self-centric......The GB is 'under' heavenly Zion (Hebr. 12:22)  - so as an extension of Zion they represent Zion on earth.... they recognize the direction they receive from Jesus and oversee the congregations and ensure they remain clean. When the elders work together properly (collectively) the spirit of Jehovah can operate freely in the elder body and direct matters - they do not need an anointed one to function.

All practical matters - organizational, legal and other directions (practical matters) come from GB for uniformity and also to keep us collectively informed..  In elder groups where one finds individuals with super-egos (unfortunately they do exist) - this body does not function as it should....... on this I agree with you. This is why we have so much material now which cautions elders that they are merely shepherds.  Jehovah eventually removes those who remain hardened in their ways.... I have seen this happen often..... they come off the self-made pedestal.  

Jehovah is love and is also at same time logical. In fact the logic of the bible is the reason I believe it is the only reality..... and the timeline etc. has convinced me of this. But the most important is the fulfillment of the warning work to the world - the preaching work.

The anointed cannot do this themselves - so we (lesser mortals) are organized and are citizens of the new "land" in which we receive the spirit as Jehovah measures out to our asking and our work. The way you are talking -  it seems you do not accept the fact that the preaching work is done by large armies of non-anointed people who are also following Christ.  The kingdom is going to benefit US after all!  We are the subjects!  (I do not see another organization of earth with future rulers and subjects now on earth? Do you?)  This is it..... the GB may be imperfect to you and not teaching everything the way you see fit..... but the warning work is being done!

Any case - Paul about -" You want to rule now do You?"  The rulers will rule only in heaven and they receive the "new name " which no-one knows... their job... their office.  Now is the time of extreme humility for men and women - must just know their place - not overstep the boundaries put there by Christ!    It was at the end of his life that Jesus suffered...... so we should not have the idea that we will be suffering all the time....The end is going to be terrible!  I do no think people have a clue what we will be facing..... but we will be thoroughly tested !  ... especially the GB and current anointed.

So we need to trust Jehovah to direct his work and angels - some congregations may have problems like the ones we read about in Revelation.... . If you do not trust Jehovah to oversee the knowledge he wants us to have now and to direct his angels in preaching work - you will find yourself outside this organization....... and it is the only organization with future kings and subjects.....  Do you think that some of the anointed in bethel are not going to suffer - you ain't seen nothing yet!  I think many witnesses will be shocked when they find the organization attacked by the political system - just as they did Jesus as a political seditionist!. 

All of us are asked not to spread out own ideas as if it was "doctrine" which can lead to much valse information being spread out there. We obey now because we view ourselves as being under the heavenly government and our cooperation is important. We have a channel and we should respect this channel - just as israel had to.   This is the reason they ask all of us not to form intellectual groups of study on our own...(not just the anointed).  One can study on your own as much as you like but do not be a dissenting voice and hinder the work we are doing - that is ego-centric. ... and we know who is the originator of that quality!

[TrueTomHarley]

Imagine a system where all one must do to enjoy the status of 'teacher' is to partake! Instantly, they are recognized as an authority! Genuine annointed Christians will follow this route, of course. But any Tom, Dick or Harry can do it, too. Afterwards, by talking a good game, they will convince many of their special credentials. It won't affect the running of things, because elder/servant bodies are formed on other considerations - but some of the local friends will be wowed.

I've known six locally. Only one was generally accepted. Witnesses don't judge such things, but one can become aware of a grapevine consensus. The one 'unchallenged' was a tireless pioneer who had been around forever and was always in harmony with theocratic organization - in no way did she 'compete.' (and even her acknowledgment was not universal)

Others were all unusual in one way or another, and one of them got to be so critical of things that another ceased association with her. Still another began partaking only after (not immediately after) being appointed an elder. The circuit overseer approving his appointment, said that he qualified - because he did - he met the scriptural qualifications to an acceptable degree. But he added as an aside: 'He's not the most humble person in the world.' He and the hyper-critical one became best of friends; he got to be critical himself, and they eventually departed together. He is still alive and is generally thought to be an 'off the wall' apostate. I think he has authored a book or two. For whatever it's worth, his family, before becoming Witnesses, included some who claimed psychic status and did water witching. 

I can't imagine a better arrangement than that of the current 'slave.' They must be of the annointed AND they must have been refined, with decades of full-time humble service. No harm done, then, if someone partakes through unbalance or self-deception. The path they take is only between themselves and God, which is how a truly annointed one would want it anyway.

 

 

 

[JW Insider]

58 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

For whatever it's worth, his family, before becoming Witnesses, included some who claimed psychic status and did water witching. 

Haven't heard that expression in years. In Missouri, in 1966 just before I was baptized we actually had a whole Witness family in our congregation who were publicly reproved or "put on probation" or something like that for water witching. They had been doing this for years and somehow had come to think of it as a "service" they were providing for their fellow country neighbors who wanted to dig a well. Of course, in this part of Missouri, you could pretty much dig 50 feet down in any solid low area and find the aquifer.

[Arauna]

 

 

    Very popular practice in South Africa too!  Came from the old, old days when there never was much water above ground - every one had those old water pumps on the farms.  Water diviners are still around...

Picture above: windpump (waterpump) with real the type of "thorn fence" used on farms to keep animals in and a typical bushfeld tree - (that odd shape tree made famous in the Pierneef paintings).  Most farms had a "longdrop" in the 1920 and 1930s (old farm toilet outside the home).  Usually riddled with spiders and snakes and anything else. 

 

 

[JW Insider]

6 minutes ago, Arauna said:

(old farm toilet outside the home).  Usually riddled with spiders and snakes and anything else. 

When we first moved to Missouri, the first farm-house we looked at in 1964 only had an outhouse, but they had two pumps, a hand pump and an electric pump in the "pump-house." So my father knew he could finish the piping to the house and dig a septic tank.

It was a common expression that an outhouse was 50 feet too far away in the winter and 50 feet too close in the summer.

They probably found it in the infamous book: Twenty Yards to the Outhouse by Willie Makit, illustrated by Betty Wont and published by Andy Dint

[Arauna]

LOL.  My mother told many stories about these farm toilets and how children had to run past the geese (who were worse than watchdogs) to get there!   As a child I often went camping with scouts in the fifties and sixties.... many wonderful memories ..... and showers were outdoors and toilets were long-drops.. 

Children were always terrified in the dark when there was a "hisssss" or something crawling over a leg......flies and mosquitos  etc.