A CIRCUIT OVERSEER STATES, "YOUR FAITH IS GARBAGE AND NEEDS TO BE TORN DOWN"

[JW Insider]

11 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

What you and Anna do in your personal lives is of no consequence to me. If you are married to other people and are having an internet love affair

If I didn't know better, I'd say you didn't have a disgusting and filthy mind.

11 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

If you are referring what you did to AllenSmith34. That’s up to you and that person. If you made fun of or insulted that person back then

The reason I stood up for Allen Smith and all your (his) aliases was made very clear. I always defended your right to say what you wanted. Of course, you had to know, and still know, that the content of what you were saying would be open to countering opinions that could contain criticism, facts and evidence. Even if some of the statements made by some of your aliases have been deleted, none of my own were, and this is how you can see that I never insulted you of made fun of you. I never made fun of your grammar either, which is something that some of your aliases kept repeating, and for which you always failed to produce evidence. I admitted that I could not always understand what you were saying. Several people here had the same problem understanding you sometimes, not just me.

11 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

If you’re able to apologize to an opposer, why haven’t you been able to apologize to a faithful member that sees your errors?

I have apologized to you every time you have pointed out an error. This goes for all your aliases. And I'm not saying this because I think you have never pointed out an error. There have been several occasions when you were right and I was wrong. I still apologize for these mistakes, and have corrected them. By the way, I do not ask the same of you. You could say whatever filthy and disgusting things that might come into your mind. I might point them out, and sometimes I might just ignore them, but I won't ask you to apologize. 

11 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

and regardless if you think you personally insulted my life giver or not, not too long ago, is another example of your hypocrisy.

This reminds me of typical corporate-sponsored news outlets, and other forms of propaganda, in which people obviously believe, hypocritically, that if they repeat a falsehood often enough, it will probably have some "sticking" effect.

12 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

If that means you people consider me AllenSmith, then I will be AllenSmith until this person steps up to the take reins.

Thanks. I have already done so from the first day you took up this last alias. But it does make it a bit easier to refer to you again, Allen.

[JOHN BUTLER]

@JW Insider If the Society / GB and all in 'command' had acted in the way that Paul was saying in that 1 Corinthians 9 19-23 scripture, then the Earthwide Child Abuse / Pedophilia  would never have happened. 

But you seem to see it as just collateral damage, necessary for the 'progress' of the Org. 

Quote "Still the core of the religion itself is one that does perhaps the best job of all religions in fighting the machinations of the Devil: " 

How can that be so when many of the beliefs are based on lies or misinformation and meanings of scripture constantly change to suit the purpose of the GB ? And also as I've mentioned above the Child Abuse.  

And you yourself mentioned the Armageddon threats from the Org. When in honesty they have no real idea. They keep moving the goalposts to suit themselves. 

And of course the shunning we will never agree on but we can agree to differ. 

And I've only just spotted this "and pointing out the value of Christian morality", now that has to be a joke. 

And the "We must question." Really ? and get disfellowshipped for doing so. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@BillyTheKid46   Quote "Therefore, John, this is really not off topic. If there was an overseer that said OUR FAITH IS GARBAGE AND NEEDS TO BE TORN DOWN

This is exactly what it means, with the examples given here."

The overseer does not have that authority from God. Neither does your GB fake 'faithful slave class '

But if you need to worship the GB then so be it.  Putting your faith in MEN is against God and against His written word and you know it.  You will be judged for doing that. 

As for me, yes, I am lost in many ways. I cannot understand why God does not make it more plain to humans which way to worship Him. I won't repeat scripture concerning the anointed as you will totally reject it again.

As for the 2 Peter 2 scripture well we can all have own own opinion of it. I think it refers to the Anointed... Verse 20 is needed to fully get the idea of it all.. 

It is quite easy for those inside and outside of the JW Org to see how those 'taking the lead' act as bullies. The threat of Armageddon is one point. Pretending it is 'so close' when it could be hundreds of years away. 

[Srecko Sostar]

40 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The overseer does not have that authority from God. Neither does your GB fake 'faithful slave class '

If i may say and put this subject, about "given authority" in this way:

IF some man .... IF he get (or if he imagined how his authority comes from "above") his authority from "above" (in any capacity we can imagine, secular or religious ...) he "has" such authority as far as he practicing what is good for others who are "under" his ruling, leading, governing position. 

Every time, in every separate issue, when he making or made bad decisions and bad regulations that have bad influence and bad repercussions and bad outcomes for other people - you are Not Obligate to Obey him ... or at least, you are not Obligate to Agree with him! 

[Shiwiii]

On 5/5/2019 at 9:56 AM, Melinda Mills said:

I won't watch the present nor the previous nine.  I agree there is nothing here.  

Interesting stance. So without even watching, and learning what this person said, you choose to accept group think. Not only accepting the groups position, but stating that there is nothing of value, as if you were educated on the subject. Hmmm, why even say anything at all if status quo was the approach? 

I think that forums like this and many more are invaluable, because we get to see and understand opposing views to further our knowledge and research for our position without actually having to have the conversation face to face. It gives us more time to formulate our ideas with facts (or at least hopefully facts), instead of dismissing based on our feelings. 

[Shiwiii]

Just now, BillyTheKid46 said:

Couldn't that be said about you? What makes you think your intellect is superior? What kind of value do those opposing views reflect if they are presented in a false narrative? educate yourself first before you condemn the actions of others. If you like seeing garbage, that's up to you. Don't force your views on others. Especially false ones.

Opposing views are an excellent way for one to reflect on the position we hold. If someone gives us something we've never thought of, it could actually open our eyes to a different view, but we must first be willing to listen. 

And what should I educate myself on in regards to this? Please tell me, so I can be educated. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@BillyTheKid46  Are you actually a Jehovah's Witness ? I'm beginning to think not

Quote "There are several reasons why a person would go directly to hell do not pass; go "

There is no 'hell'.   Only death and a possible resurrection. I say possible because not everyone, it seems, gets  a resurrection.  

The dead are conscious of nothing at all. 

I feel sure enough that i will be dead a long time before Judgement Day arrives. Then it will be in the hands of Jesus Christ as to if i get a resurrection or not.  And I cannot imagine that people will be resurrected just to be punished. 

And your comment  " Is telling people the truth, bullying, "  . JW's don't know the truth as they keep changing their ideas to suit themselves.

JW's worship their GB by accepting everything the GB say. The Elders worship their GB by doing everything their GB tells them to do, without asking questions and without conscience or moral thoughts.

And once again i say, your GB have no authority from God or from Jesus Christ. Your GB are false prophets and fake 'slaves'.

They have proved themselves false and fake by their words and deeds.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Think about Srecko. Can your thought be expressed with secular authority? Can you defy your own government? What will happen if you didn't comply with your local laws? If nothing happens, let me know where you live, I would love a place that anyone can pick and choose, be good or bad at will. The last place that was that way was called Sodom and Gomorra. But, I believe angels destroyed them, not just for not obeying God's will, but the debauchery that was going on. Was lot knocking on doors or telling people in the streets, they should obey God?

 

So, how would you handle that? What kind of authority would be suitable to maintain Christian ethics to its highest standard? By confronting those taking the lead? Thinking you know better than they do? Do you have a higher moral standard? What would satisfy this theme of NOT obligated or should disagree? Remember, those in authority are tools and are an extension of God's sovereignty. When they go bad, they get the same justice as any other Christian, would.

Dear Billy, If you are JW member you already know the answer on this, that was given not only by JW but also by other kind of people (religious and non religious people) who rejecting/ed to obey something that is violate their conscience or moral standards. Some would call this act as civil disobedience. 

If you are JW member perhaps you done this also, or at least you know someone from your worldwide brotherhood who has done this and disobeyed secular authority on some issue (WTJWORG publications wrote about).  

Your question addressed to me on this issue, and in this way is out of power, it is mishit . :))

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Remember, those in authority are tools and are an extension of God's sovereignty. When they go bad, they get the same justice as any other Christian, would.

If you are on some leading position in JW congregation do you believe how your appointment was made by holy spirit? Do you believe that all your words and deeds are in line with holy spirit?

If you do believe such thing, that is your free will and right. 

 

If JW member want to believe that you are "gift" given by god and to obey you and what you talking to them, that is their free will and right.

 

[Shiwiii]

25 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Whose we. Do you mean, opposers. You certainly don’t mean witnesses. What positive views does an opposer offer? Can they offer a better understanding of scripture? Can they offer a better moral Christian life? Therefore, educate yourself on what a Christian is, and should be. If you’re going to give examples and excuses with justifications, I’ve heard those from a self-appointed anointed one that lacks the same biblical education you hold. Therefore, JW’s don’t need garbage or tainted scriptural understanding.

 

No I don't mean witnesses, I mean everyone. All of us can learn something from others, even if their view is not the same as ours. 

Can they offer a better understanding of scripture? you'd be surprised. 

Can they offer a better moral Christian life? They can, if you are asking about a better scriptural life than jws. Think CSA and reporting ALL criminals to the proper authorities. So certainly they can. 

 

All a person needs to do is listen to the other side before dismissing them based on what the group thinks. Group think is what lemmings do, and right off the cliff they go. ....

[Shiwiii]

1 minute ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

So, in your mind, JW's are the only one's being plegued by Satan's attack of CSA. Thank's I didn't know that. I'll put that one next to the trash bag. Unitl you can offer a better biblical understanding than Christ, your kind doesn't have anything better to offer. Maybe that's what surprises you.

nope, not anything close to what I said at all. 

Doesn't surprise me that you can't or won't comprehend. 

[Anna]

On 5/5/2019 at 11:52 AM, JW Insider said:

On 5/5/2019 at 11:01 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

OK, let's get down to basics. what exactly was Anna saying about people that reject the JW Org ?

I'll let her answer that.

What I was saying is that not everyone who has faith in God, is recognized by God as a true worshiper. It is true that ultimately God reads hearts and reads motives, and that we cannot judge anyone, but it is also true that there are many people whose faith is obviously misguided and not in harmony with scripture at all. For example there are those who condone things that God hates and implicitly rejects (eg. practicing homosexuals). Then there are those who have so much faith in God that they will kill thousands of people including themselves, imagining  they have rendered a sacred service to God and will wake up in paradise.

My answer was to" Witness" who suggested that faith in God was enough to please God, and therefor those who leave the org. but still have faith in God are "ok". So I said it's not about the organization as "Witness" sees it. Firstly, the organization is only in place because of the preaching work. I do not know any other establishment, besides Jehovah's Witnesses, all of whose members go out preaching. Secondly, the organization strives to strictly adhere to the scriptures. I do not know any other establishment that does this. Also, as far as I am aware, those who "leave the org." do not continue to preach, and no longer strictly adhere to the scriptures. But, some of those "who leave the org." also come back.

All those reasons you listed John, I can why someone could feel offended by them, but I also know they are arguable, and if anyone wants to learn the facts about these things they can, but many don't.  There are also many that do not see those things you listed as reasons to leave the org. because they have understood the cause of them is not due to maliciousness or evilness, but rather over-eagerness, naivete, over-zealousness, pride, fear, and other human failings that have been written about in the Bible as being possessed by  persons who God viewed favorably, despite those failings. These individuals were chastised for these weaknesses, but they never permanently lost God's favour.