A CIRCUIT OVERSEER STATES, "YOUR FAITH IS GARBAGE AND NEEDS TO BE TORN DOWN"

[JOHN BUTLER]

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It has often been said,

 

 

 

When it comes to spirituality, that’s the kind of garbage (unbelievers, unrepentant, bad association, lack of Bible understanding people) Christ warned us to stay away from. Therefore to an intellect, should a captain and crew be needed on a symbolic ship, or can we navigate on our own spiritually since God will hold us personally responsible for our own actions.

There lies the essence of this post. Take of it what you will. God will render his final judgment on us as individuals not a group.

1 Timothy 5:8, NIV: "Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Does this just mean to provide with money, a home, a car, clothing, food, etc.?

 

 

 

 

 

@BillyTheKid46 You see your list of types of people means nothing because it is all subject to personal interpretation. 

Unbelievers, unbelievers in what ? What YOU mean is people that don't believe that your GB are the F&DS.  

But, those people may still believe in God and in Jesus Christ. So they are only unbelievers in the eyes of JW's.

Unrepentant, but unrepentant to whom ? Once again you base it on the JW Org's viewpoint. You expect people that know how bad the GB and it's Org are, to crawl back and ask forgiveness from MEN. 

Bas association that Christ warned us to  stay away from.  Well I am staying away from bad association, the JW Org is the bad association, full of lies, deceit and pedophiles.

Lack of bible understanding, now that is definitely JW congregants, because they rely on the GB and writing department to supply all their 'Bible knowledge'. Unfortunately the congregants do not have the intelligence or inclination to question anything for themselves and so are totally misled. But the congregants only have themselves to blame really because if they asked God, through Jesus Christ,  for the guidance of His Holy Spirit, then God would show those congregants that the teachings of the GB and JW Org are false.   

As for your point about " should a captain and crew be needed on a symbolic ship, or can we navigate on our own spiritually since God will hold us personally responsible for our own actions. "

I will come back to one of my favorite scriptures about 'Ten men clinging to the robe of a Jew'. The Bible tells us that the Anointed will be recognisable and that spiritually minded people would follow those Anointed. 

I completely agree with your point that God will have us judged as individuals, by Christ or the angels. So yes it up to us which way we go. But then I think God will make it clear, when He is ready to do so, who the Anointed really are, so that a person can follow those of the true Anointed. 

[Witness]

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

When it comes to spirituality, that’s the kind of garbage (unbelievers, unrepentant, bad association, lack of Bible understanding people) Christ warned us to stay away from.

Such as the hypocritical “Pharisees” of today - the GB.

“Then he gave them strict orders: “Watch out! Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.”  Mark 8:15

Matt 15:7-9:  You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:

⁸ “‘This people honors me with their lips,
    but their heart is far from me;
⁹ in vain do they worship me,
    teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

God will render his final judgment on us as individuals not a group.

Exactly; which is why we are to recognize and reject rotten fruit when we hear it.  Matt 7:15-20 

Jer 23:16 - Thus says the Lord of hosts:  "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you, filling you with vain hopes.  They speak visions of their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord."  

Ps 26:4 – “I do not sit with men of falsehood,
    nor do I consort with hypocrites.”

 

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

in what sense was Jesus breaking God's covenant.

my quote: HE was breaking The Law (Old Testament ... and Your's) 

He was breaking The Law, because Anointed Legal Priesthood (similar to WTJWORG GB today) of those time said so ! :)))))   

Elders and Priests, almost all Spiritual Elders and Shepherds of Israel in Jerusalem and in other places where they came in conversation and discussion with Jesus, showed by Their Interpretations of Holy Scriptures, that Jesus was breaking God's Rules and Commands.    

So, to who should/would you believe that speaking the true? To Man from Nazareth? Or to established Priesthood? :)))

To who JWs should/would believe? To some individuals? Or to established GB and Their Interpretations?

  

[JOHN BUTLER]

4 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

my quote: HE was breaking The Law (Old Testament ... and Your's) 

He was breaking The Law, because Anointed Legal Priesthood (similar to WTJWORG GB today) of those time said so ! :)))))   

Elders and Priests, almost all Spiritual Elders and Shepherds of Israel in Jerusalem and in other places where they came in conversation and discussion with Jesus, showed by Their Interpretations of Holy Scriptures, that Jesus was breaking God's Rules and Commands.    

So, to who should/would you believe that speaking the true? To Man from Nazareth? Or to established Priesthood? :)))

To who JWs should/would believe? To some individuals? Or to established GB and Their Interpretations?

  

Very good comment @Srecko Sostar Exactly true. 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

When you say Jesus was breaking the laws, which laws are you referring to. God’s laws or the provisional laws set forth by the Pharisees and High Priest.

Which laws JW's have to obey today ? Laws set by GB? Or Jw's need to imitate Jesus and BREAKING provisional Laws set forth by GB?

7 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

However, what do you think Jesus meant with “so practice and observe whatever they tell you” to mean?

This was told before cca 2000 years. I suppose how today Jesus would modified a little his words and say:

Do not practice whatever they tell you that you must obey and doing. First you have to check what they are talking about and why. If you are not sure, then come to me and ask me about. I will help you with your questions. For false messiahs and false prophets performing great signs and wonders to deceive".   

[Srecko Sostar]

20 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

However, give me a good example of how the GB are self-imposing and adding a provisional law?

Read, please, WT published material for latest 140 years and you will find examples.... :)) ....even without my help.

[TrueTomHarley]

8 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

They decide, what we know about history, Jesus died on a TAU cross, not a Stauros. They have brainwashed themselves, they now believe the Watchtower to be in error.

You are right. We have paved the way in some areas, and this matter of Jesus dying on a cross, which some malcontents retreat from, is one of them. Here is an evangelical preacher who created a sensation by writing the same.

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2010/11/did-jesus-die-on-a-cross.html

By the way, that brother who I wrote about who would move his hand up and down frantically across his breastbone when coming across something unexpected? That was not Tom Oxgoad, my own fictional character. That was Dave McClure, a circuit overseer who passed away some years ago. What a hoot he was. Everyone loved him.

I used to stick to these guys like glue back in the day when I was single. I even got to be his chauffeur in the afternoon, because he liked a break from driving. He had me stop in at one of those Photomat kiosks long ago in a parking lot—places that you dropped off film for developing. I pulled ahead slightly and from the back seat he spoke with the attendant, who couldn’t find his photos and so offered him a free roll of film. “There’s going to be blood in the sun if you don’t find those pictures,” he said, using some hillbilly expression that I had never heard before, “unless you want to take me on another vacation.” He made that girl turn her little kiosk upside down, searching each nook and cranny. “I understand that things happen,” he told me later. “It’s just that cavalier attitude that they should lose my pictures and think I will be satisfied with a free role of film that’s nettling.”

 

[Witness]

15 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

You are claiming The Priesthood was mightier than the Son of God. However, what do you think Jesus meant with “so practice and observe whatever they tell you” to mean?

God's laws, fulfilled in Christ as the Word. Matt 5:17; John 1:1  Every other "law" or tradition set in place by the corrupted priesthood, oppressed the people: 

16 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

 ⁴ They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.

Jesus would not expect obedience to the ideologies and traditions of men, which is what he is referring to in the above scripture.  

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”  Matt 11:28-30

To the Pharisees, Jesus said:

You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ 11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:8-13

One of the  many "traditions of men" in the Watchtower is to "curse" one's mother, father, son, or daughter for following Christ''s teachings, which results in the "curse" of spiritual "death".  Rev 13:15  That conveniently locks out all obligations to one's say, parents; thus, more money, more time, more devotion, can be given to "Jehovah's organization" - as pioneers, in special assignments, and as elders.  

16 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Then your comparison of the High Priest to that of the modern GB is off the mark since they have yet to self-impose anything that isn’t directly linked to scripture. 

You mean, linked to the scriptures that describes the hypocrisy of the Pharisees? They expected obedience to them, and not to Christ.  Today, full obedience must be given to the GB and elder body - over Christ.   Your reasoning is twisted, Allen, in harmony with Watchtower's teachings; and not in harmony with the teachings of Jesus.

"Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”    

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."  John 14:21,23,24

His commands, not those of the GB who use an army of henchmen to carry out their will.  Matt 24:48-51

 

 

 

 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

When you say Jesus was breaking the laws, which laws are you referring to. God’s laws or the provisional laws set forth by the Pharisees and High Priest. An example of a provisional law was the law Moses applied to divorce. How about the mandate of stoning for adultery.

@BillyTheKid46  You do puzzle me sometimes. 

I really do not think you are a JW at all.  The scripture you have used regarding Adultery is a scripture that is not contained in the NWT, because said scripture is thought to have been a later addition added by a translator and it is quite possible that Jesus never said or did those things. 

[Srecko Sostar]

22 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

If anything, I more a witness than witness and all these JW's in this forum put together.

 I hope how this pride and even arrogant self-praise is just result of short-term foolishness :))

[Srecko Sostar]

23 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I asked Srecko to give me an example of a provisional law the Watchtower has added to the laws of God. His sarcasm of 140 years just doesn't prove anything.

We have always used the Bible as the sole authority for our beliefs, so we have adjusted our beliefs as our understanding of the Scriptures has been clarified. - source JWorg

Here we have maneuver by JW Clergy Leaders who try to justify, by Bible, how they have made/making changes of Organizational doctrines and beliefs, because they have not understand the Scriptures before (and today too). In meantime, while they were not been aware of false and wrong in own doctrines, they continued to force and run wrong laws inside JW congregations. 

Exactly this and that WTJWORG mandate beliefs, are what can be called by name you used in comment - provisional laws. With time passing, WT Leaders changed doctrines which they presented as Bible Truths and God's Word. After some time they made new doctrines out of old doctrines, and again they called such modified rules-doctrines-laws as Bible Truths and God's Word. They using lexical terminology such as;  adjusted our beliefs .....Scriptures has been clarified.

Well, we have different wording but same package of meanings and results: 

Provisional Laws ........ Adjusted our beliefs ...... Scriptures has been clarified. 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

Wow this is all so funny. Billy thinks it is ok for a Witness to use things that seem to pretend they are scripture when those people whom he serves (the GB and it's Writing department) say those things are not scripture.  So then billy thinks that makes him "more of a witness" by using 'fake scripture'. 

Oh dear, when we think on scripture it should make us humble not 'exalt ourselves'. (Matt 23 v 12 )

For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

I think Billy is showing his true colours now.