JWs sue Norwegian government

[Srecko Sostar]

Just now, Srecko Sostar said:

While some may question the superiority of the NWT, the fact remains: if it were truly flawed, why would God allow it to persist?  

WTJWorg literature answers this type of question as well. Are you really unfamiliar with that?

[Srecko Sostar]

 

[Srecko Sostar]

14 hours ago, George88 said:

Are we now changing the subject to something unrelated to interpreting scripture from the NWT?

Not. We only used the new illustration. Mr. lawyer who is apparently the head of the legal team representing WTJWorg (in the photo 3rd person on the right) made the claim that only the JW organization is authorized to interpret the content of its publications that were presented in court by the defense attorney of the Norwegian state.
So we know two things; 1. GB considers itself the only one authorized to interpret the Bible and 2. GB is the only one who can correctly explain the meaning of its own interpretations.
Consequently, this would mean that no one in this world has the right to think and say that WTJWorg's interpretations are wrong. That's nonsense.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, George88 said:

Who possesses the superior ability to accurately interpret the publications of the Watchtower?

This is how I could answer the matter.
GB claims to be the "guardian of the doctrine" and the only one who correctly interprets the Bible.
The lawyer claims that only GB can correctly interpret WTJWorg's publications.

First thing. If anyone could agree that GB is the only one who can relevantly explain what is the meaning of what is written in the WTJWorg editions, because at the end of the day, all the text within 140+ years is nothing but the product and imagination of the people at WTJWorg. So it can be said that they are, also, the intellectual owners of what was written in WTJWorg publications. Of course, a bunch of theology has long since been discarded by themselves, so that speaks volumes for the intellectual and spiritual value of a large number of WTJWorg publications.
 
Another thing, GB has no authority to interpret the Bible because they are not the ones who wrote the Bible.

According to the previously presented logic, only God has the right to interpret his Word aka the Bible. "Do Not Interpretations Belong to God?", Gen 40:8.

I think we have clearly rounded up the result, that is, GB is not authorized to interpret the Bible. And if GB still wants to explain the meaning of the biblical text, it only means that their interpretation is not binding on anyone.

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, George88 said:

Are you suggesting that the Watchtower is the sole publisher of spiritual content?

No.

10 hours ago, George88 said:

Do you think that Christian sects, who openly express their support for gay rights and endorse acts of violence through war, are still considered to have God's approval?

No.

10 hours ago, George88 said:

Are you suggesting that only God has that authority, and he can't delegate it to someone on earth?

What does the "delegation" process look like?
When did it start?
Who were the first people whom God "delegated" to interpret his Word?

10 hours ago, George88 said:

Didn't God give Joseph the ability to interpret the pharaoh's dream?

Joseph did not found/establish a religion like WTJWorg did. I don't recall any record of him imposing his interpretations on other people.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, George88 said:

Did Jesus not embrace the synagogues as places of worship and God's house? Why would you condemn Jesus and God for establishing places of worship? Matthew 21:13, Genesis 28:16, Exodus 23:19, 1 Kings 9:6 etc.

So, didn't JWs reject Judaism?

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, George88 said:

Examine and comprehend various passages explaining why the Pharisees and anyone who advocates for God with insincere intentions would not find favor with God. Matthew, 1 John, 2 Peter, 2 Corinthians, 2 Timothy, Romans, Mark, Colossians, Galatians, Jude, Acts, Deuteronomy, lamentations, Jeremiah, Ezekial, Revelations, etc.

Do you believe that JWs are being led astray and are being encouraged to worship false Gods? The passage "testing the spirit" is meant to discern the spirit of insincere individuals, not those who faithfully uphold God's words and commands. Such as the Pharisees. Engaging in such critical thinking is a grave offense against God, as His faithful ought to discern the spirits that require examination.

If that were true, we would be forced to scrutinize Christ, the apostles, and even Paul. However, it is inconceivable that Christ, who is seen as a flawless figure, would have allowed such suspicion to overshadow their authority. This would not have been accepted even in heaven, let alone by God. Rejecting these chosen individuals, who have been appointed to guide his flock, would resemble the treatment that ancient Israel showed to the prophets.

The Jewish system of worship was established by God (the Jewish God). JWs say his name is YHVH. Thus, Judaism is at its root a correct, true religion.
People who want to become members of the JW religion must renounce their previous religion, if they were believers of any church. As far as I know, Jesus never renounced his Jewish religion.

Jesus, like you in your commentary, condemned the corruption of the religious leaders within his Jewish religion. Jesus did not despise Judaism and own belonging to Judaism, the religion/faith of his fathers, but he despised the religious hypocrisy of the people of his time.

As far as I know, Jesus kept all the customs of his Jewish faith. He never told his followers to stop keeping the "law of Moses". Moreover, he taught them to do everything the "Pharisees" told them, but not to act hypocritically like the Pharisees.
This tells us that Jesus was not advocating the rejection of Judaism as the true religion. The establishment of the "new covenant" does not exclude the very essence and truth, truthfulness of the Jewish religion.

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, George88 said:

Perhaps you and JWinsider could elucidate to the visitor how the figurative Jew incurred God's disfavor by failing to uphold their commitment to serve Him. In a similar vein, certain individuals among the witnesses tend to exhibit this habit of self-contradiction as they identify themselves as witnesses. Or has this intriguing piece of information somehow slipped away from our awareness?

Personal responsibility is not in question here. But rank and file members do not generate theology. Religious leaders (GB) are the creators of doctrines and they are the ones who change these doctrines and introduce the direction of how the members will worship God and what practices they will apply. So, we know who bears the greatest responsibility, that is, the blame for the downfall of the "herd".

7 hours ago, George88 said:

Let's focus on the subject you initially addressed and refrain from derailing your post by implying that there is justification for Norway receiving subsidies from the Watchtower.

Agree.

[Srecko Sostar]

Article from Baptist Standard

 

Jehovah’s Witnesses sue Norway after registration revoked

JANUARY 18, 2024

 

https://www.baptiststandard.com/news/world/jehovahs-witnesses-sue-norway-after-registration-revoked/

quote from article:

Clarifying stance on disfellowship

In an email to RNS, Jehovah’s Witnesses spokesperson Jarrod Lopes said Witnesses only disfellowship an unrepentant member who “makes a practice” of serious violations of “the Bible’s moral code.”

Even then, Lopes added, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t force members to limit or cease association with former congregants, whether they’ve been disfellowshipped or withdrawn voluntarily—that’s up to individuals.

“Congregation elders do not police the personal lives of congregants, nor do they exercise control over the faith of individual Jehovah’s Witnesses,” Lopes wrote.

----------------------------

The behavior of the official representatives of JWs is more and more riddled with deceptions with which they lie to the public and to the courts. Obviously, the time will come for "clarification" within the congregations as well, like these "clarifications" for these poor "godless people" who live "without God" in this "satanic" world.

[Srecko Sostar]

Avoidance and ostracism (shunning) of former family members is a mandatory rule in WTJWorg. The same rule must be applied to all other former JW members.

quotes:

"Despite our pain of heart, we must avoid normal contact with a disfellowshipped family member by telephone, text messages, letters, e-mails, or social media."

- https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-october-2017/truth-brings-not-peace-but-sword/

 

"If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped."

-  https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

@George88 Let's not equate "distancing" from WTJWorg and its doctrines and practices with circumstances that lead to the creation of a different dynamic in mutual relations with people with whom we were previously "hung out" as members of the JWs community.
There will be various and varied reactions. Some will completely reject the possibility of contact with ex-JW, others will at least be polite and say hello on the road, and some will sometimes want to talk about anything.
Some ex-JWs really miss contact with family or friends who have remained JWs. Some other ex-JWs are bothered by the lack of culture when they happen to meet former "brothers". For some it ceases to matter and they can deal with "fanatical JWs", who consistently adhere to the WTJWorg's institutional instructions to completely cut off relations with ex-JWs, without much trouble.

Jesus had no problem communicating with all kinds of people, from little children to decent people to hardened lawbreakers. We, ordinary people, generally cannot imitate that way of dealing with other people. And we are not even obligated, because we have the free will to choose who we want or don't want to deal with.
I respect that "choice". What I don't want to appreciate and respect is the "hate by GB decree" that imposes "shunning".

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, George88 said:

 It's about viewing things through the lens of reality.

1. A fictional, actually false reality that is presented to "Caesar"

Even then, Lopes added, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t force members to limit or cease association with former congregants, whether they’ve been disfellowshipped or withdrawn voluntarily—that’s up to individuals. - https://www.baptiststandard.com/news/world/jehovahs-witnesses-sue-norway-after-registration-revoked/

 

2. Reality and practice inside JWs congregations

 

"Despite our pain of heart, we must avoid normal contact with a disfellowshipped family member by telephone, text messages, letters, e-mails, or social media."

- https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-october-2017/truth-brings-not-peace-but-sword/

 

"If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped."

-  https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/