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The Librarian

Timeline of the 'Light Getting Brighter'

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5 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

That is a good point, however some believe when it comes to the bible, it is a clear cut word of God, no progression needed. 

I agree with @Anna on this, here but slightly reworded. The Bible is indeed "clear cut" and "no progression" is needed:

Psalm 12:6: "The sayings of Jehovah are pure; they are like silver refined in an earthen furnace, purified seven times."

Man's understanding of the Bible, however, is not clear cut and does need progression.

Men need the right attitude: 

  • Ps 25:4 "Make me know your ways, O Jehovah; teach me your paths."

Men need permission:

  • Matt 13:11To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted."

Men need God's holy spirit:

  • John 16:13 "However, when that one comes, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth"

Men need to learn progressively:

  • John 16:12 "“I still have many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now."

Men need help from other faithful servants:

  • Acts 18:24-26 "A·polʹlos...was an eloquent man who was well-versed in the Scriptures..... had been instructed....... was speaking and teaching accurately.... but ...Pris·cilʹla and Aqʹui·la....explained the way of God more accurately to him."

Even with this, 

Men still fall short:

  • Heb. 5:11-12 "..you have become dull in your hearing. For although by now you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God.."

Men still go too far:

  • 1Cor 4:6 "learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other."

So, men need to maintain the right attitude: 

  • Heb 12:5 "“My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him"
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Hi. If i may suggest this.

1919 -  FDS was appointed "over all Master's belongings"

2013 -  FDS was not appointed in 1919 but will be in a future

in late 1920 ,Year? - The wicked and sluggish slave refers to anointed ones in the 1914 era who refused to share in the preaching work

2013 -  the “evil slaves” as a class, instead applying it as a hypothetical danger to the composite Faithful Slave, which they say has never become a reality

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@Srecko Sostar listed a few faithful and discreet slave teachings; here are a few more.  Still, they don't cover them all.

Russel was considered the “faithful slave”, even up to 1923.

At one point it was taught that Jesus AND/OR the anointed ones were the “faithful slave”.  (1927)

Wt 13/7/15 pp. 20-25 - “Jesus did not say that he would appoint an evil slave. His words here are actually a warning directed to the faithful and discreet slave.”

If these words are a warning, should the possibility be completely dismissed that an evil slave can indeed exist? Presently, the self-assuming governing body says there is no evil slave.    

With this parable, the purported “faithful slave” today has decided to erase a good deal of its application to suit their needs; and only accept Matt 24:45-47 as verifiable scripture – that they fulfill the term, “faithful and discreet”.  In fact, David Splane remarked that the “slave” is not 1900 years old. 

Srecko, I believe you can flush all those ‘old light’ teachings about a faithful slave, down the toilet.  (Matt 7:17-20; John 15:16)

The rest of the matter concerning the faithful slave, Matt 24:48-51, has been discarded.  The GB has proposed a straw man argument to refute Jesus’ warnings of their own debased tactics used against their “fellow servants”.  With one sweep of the hand, individuals, both anointed and those not anointed are disfellowshipped for rejecting “new light”; while the governing body is still considered “faithful and discreet” above and beyond any further established “new light” that they most assuredly will decree.  Matt 5:11,12; Isa 66:5; John 16:2; James 4:12

 “New light” is an actual rejection of their own doctrine

This implies that one’s faithfulness is gauged on accepting man’s changing doctrine.  That doctrine appears to carry more validity than God’s scriptures.  Man’s decrees can substitute what Jesus and the apostles have outlined for us. Watchtower doctrine, is a yoke placed on the shoulders of “fellow servants” that is never relieved, but only made heavier. It is the result of the "timeline of the light getting brighter".    Ezek 34:16

 “King Rehoboam took counsel with the old men, who had stood before Solomon his father while he yet lived, saying, “What counsel do you give me to return answer to this people?”

 They spoke to him, saying, “If you are kind to this people, and please them, and speak good words to them, then they will be your servants forever.”

 But he abandoned the counsel of the old men which they had given him, and took counsel with the young men who had grown up with him, who stood before him.  He said to them, “What counsel do you give, that we may return answer to this people, who have spoken to me, saying, ‘Make the yoke that your father put on us lighter?’”

 The young men who had grown up with him spoke to him, saying, “Thus you shall tell the people who spoke to you, saying, ‘Your father made our yoke heavy, but make it lighter on us;’ thus you shall say to them, ‘My little finger is thicker than my father’s waist.  Now whereas my father burdened you with a heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke. My father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.’”

 Is this not true with the Wt. changes of who is the “faithful slave”?  It has come to the point that the  anointed now must listen to seven men, not to Christ individually. They also must obey an army of elders. God’s anointed people are treated as imbeciles who are unable to discern truth on their own, contrary to every scripture that refers to their ability to do so. James 1:5; John 14:26; 1 John 2:20,21

Jesus said, “Come to me, all you who labor and are heavily burdened, and I will give you rest.  Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, -  not from men who blame Jesus for imperfect food; which in reality is faulty, uninspired doctrine.

for I am gentle and humble in heart; and you will find rest for your souls.  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”  Matt 11:28-30

Scorpions; they are found in Revelation, combined with plaguing locusts, and who are released by the false prophet, “Wormwood”, to torment God’s anointed ones. Watchtower refers to the locust/scorpions as missionaries who bring a “stinging message” to the world.  Has any person contacted in the “preaching work” felt that the message presented by JWs, “stings”?  The locust/scorpions torment the anointed, who have not been sealed by God, (Rev 9:4,5) which indicates the source of this tormenting army comes from within the Watchtower.  (Rev 7:3,4)

Revelation “signifies” this torment (Rev 1:1); not as physical, but as an emotional turmoil; yet, the emotional can superimpose onto the physical, creating “significant” upheaval in the mind and heart of anointed ones, as well as their brethren. Rev 9:6; Matt 24:9,21; Luke 21:12,13; James 2:6; John 16:2; Rev 13:15  An “evil slave” uses the locust-scorpion/elder body to carry out this torment against the anointed ones; through teachings, rules of obedience, and subsequent disfellowshipping for speaking against doctrine. Isa 9:15,16; Matt 24:48,49; Rev 9:3-6;13:7  

JWs, if there is one doctrine that you may disagree with, are you ever soothed by Watchtower’s words to continue to obey without question, or does it always nag the conscience; that is, if we exercise our God-given conscience? 

If the Governing Body, whom we remember is not inspired, can call itself with determination that it is the “faithful and discreet slave”; then according to scripture, it is a valid claim that anointed who are actually inspired, and who have experienced the “beating” by the Governing Body and their henchmen, can confidently address them, as the “evil slave”. 

Which anointed ones have God’s blessing? They are those who listen to, and can hear ,Jesus Christ, their true and only Master, through the guidance of Holy Spirit.  They are not the showy ones, not “prominent”, and not highly esteemed; but neither was Jesus.  Matt 25:40; James 2:2-4; 1 Cor 1:26-29

This split among the anointed ones; the segregation of those who love only truth in Christ from those who prefer the “new light” from an evil slave, was prophesied to occur during the last days.  2 Thess 2:1-12.  When an anointed one upholds Christ, the evil slave cannot tolerate such dissension.  They are disfellowshipped – spiritually “killed”. They suffer for their testimony of Christ.   Luke 22:31; Rev 13:7,10,15; Rev 12:17,11; Mark 10:29-31; John 12:25

“Dear friends, don’t be surprised when the fiery ordeal comes among you to test you as if something unusual were happening to you.  Instead, rejoice as you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may also rejoice with great joy when his glory is revealed.  If you are ridiculed for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. Let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or a meddler.  But if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed but let him glorify God in having that name.  For the time has come for judgment to begin with God’s household, (1 Pet 2:5; Eph 2:20-22; Heb 10:21)  and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?” 1 Pet 4:12-17

 

 

 

 

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On 3/28/2016 at 7:22 PM, The Librarian said:

But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his 'faithful and discreet slave,' made up of spirit anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives.

Old light.  No longer is the "slave" determined to be all anointed ones.  

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@Gone Away, I don't get it. It's actually much harder to be a back-seat driver when you are not in the same car.

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

@Gone Away, I don't get it. It's actually much harder to be a back-seat driver when you are not in the same car.

That's the beauty of interpretation. It depends on how you look at it xD

How I am looking at it is from the drivers point of view.  I am assuming the backseat driver is mostly useless, because he can't see properly  (it's a lot easier to be useless than useful), but he may have the odd useful remark or reminder. But when he is not even in the car, how useful can he be then. He is totally useless and it's easy for him to be that way.

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On 3/7/2016 at 12:29 AM, The Librarian said:

Biblical infallibility. Early copies of Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence made reference to the Bible as God's "infallible Word".[71] (this has slightly changed in 2015)

This is supposedly a doctrine that has been unchanged since 1879, and it's mostly right. But look at the following quote from the Watch Tower, April 1, 1920, p.103:

  • "The Finished Mystery," as one of the series of seven previously announced by Brother Russell. The doctrines therein set forth are in exact harmony with those announced by the other six. That it contains some mistakes is freely admitted. Even the Bible contains some.

Here is another from the Watch Tower April 15, 1928, p. 126:

  • QUESTION: Is it proper for those who have been in the truth only a short while to go out and sell the Society's books? . . . Sometimes a member of a class will refuse to engage in the canvassing for the books because there are some mistakes in the books, and says his conscience will not permit him to put books in which there are mistakes into the hands of the people. Of course this is another method that the enemy adopts to confuse the minds and furnish an excuse for not being faithful to the Lord. As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible and there never has been a book written yet that is perfect that has been written by any human hand. . . .Those who engage in the service work are not supposed to stand on the street and preach, nor to give a technical explanation of the Scriptures.
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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I don't get it

Ask Rick

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46 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible

As everyone knows, the Bible is a collection of books and as such needs definition. We all know it has contained to a greater and lesser degree both copyists and translators errors over the years, even one or two blatant falsifications.That has not stopped it's circulation or reduced it's value even although certain texts have been for various reason in error. That is probably the spirit behind the argument that error in the text was no reason for not distributing the Society's literature.

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4 hours ago, Gone Away said:

We all know it has contained to a greater and lesser degree both copyists and translators errors over the years, even one or two blatant falsifications.

There is a surprising nuanced qualification to most of the items that are listed by @The Librarian above as doctrinal topics that are unchanged since 1879 (or at least since they were first mentioned. I'd think you are right that the copyists' errors and blatant falsifications such as in 1 John 5 were at the top of Rutherford's thinking.

  • Still, Rutherford said surprising things about evolution.
  • Russell said surprising things even about the Ransom that have been dropped or changed over the years.
  • "God's name is Jehovah" is actually not a teaching of the Watchtower. The earliest Forward to NWT and supporting Watchtower articles documented that "Yahweh" was considered to be the preferred choice to be closer to the Hebrew, but that Jehovah is used because it is more commonly known.
  • The fourth bullet point about what Russell taught about determining Christ's presence through the chronology of the 6,000 years and the "Gentile Times" is completely false. The 6,000 years was ended initially in 1872, and the Gentile Times were ended in 1914 and then 1915 and then 1914 again. So none of this tied to the fact that he started the "presence" in 1874.

There is actually a point to be made on every one of those bullet points supposedly representing unchanged doctrine, but I'm sure that wouldn't interest too many.

Back to the issue of the Bible contains mistakes.

This is kind of an obvious point as you made it. But the logic Rutherford used would have been a mistake on an LSAT or even some "Bar Exam" questions for barristers/lawyers. He mixes apples and oranges by NOT speaking of those types of problems (copyists errors and deliberate falsifications) in the 7th volume. Rutherford says he is referring to misapplications and misunderstandings. Reading the full quote without leaving anything out of that context, shows this:

Watch Tower, April 1, 1920, p.103:

  • "The Finished Mystery," as one of the series of seven previously announced by Brother Russell. The doctrines therein set forth are in exact harmony with those announced by the other six. That it contains some mistakes is freely admitted. Even the Bible contains some. By mistake we mean a misunderstanding or misapplication. It does not contain any erroneous doctrines. It does attempt to carry and, we will be pardoned for saying, succeeds in a measure at least, the measure which seems to be contemplated by the commission given to the six described in Ezekiel 9. The Society in its annual official meeting adopted it as Volume VII of the series of STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES when, by an overwhelming majority, it required each officer to be elected to state that he accepted it as Volume VII: It was therefore in exact harmony with this that any ecclesia subsequently would ask its prospective elders and officers : "Do you accept the Seventh Volume and are you willing to teach it?" . . .  We prefer to have someone to teach us who is in harmony with the Society and its work."

Anyone who reads the Seventh Volume today will be surprised that you cannot go even two pages anywhere in the book without finding something else that you could be disfellowshipped for insisting upon today. There are literally hundreds of false teachings. Many more of its teachings are considered false today than those that might still be considered true. 

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17 hours ago, JW Insider said:

By mistake we mean a misunderstanding or misapplication.

As you point out, the 1920 WT article gives no examples of these.

Copyist and translator error, tampering, falsifications, additions etc. are still a possibility. Also, Luke 4:9-11 could be cited as a bona-fide misapplication. Luke 19:16 and Acts 1:6 are examples of genuine misunderstanding.

The erroneous logic process you refer to is an example in itself of how a mistake can be made, but, in the absence of a response from the writer himself, we can only assume or guess, (educated or otherwise), at what was meant by "misunderstanding or misapplication".

The basic argument in the WT appears to be that mistakes in text or explanation occur in all human writings. This is extended to include the Bible. The existence of such in the so called Vol7 of Studies in the Scriptures was not felt (at the time) to constitute sufficient reason for rejecting it outright, any more than the BIble would be rejected on the same basis due to any (unidentified)"misunderstanding or misapplication" .

On reflection, using the Bible as a basis for this argument without considerable clarification regarding what was meant seems risky. (I would have cited the Encyclopedia Brittannica as an example more easily identified with), but I can see that Rutherford was using a rather extreme example to support his point

An affirmed acceptance of the substance of that Bible study aid was seen at the time as a necessary criteria for those serving in a representative way within the publishing organisation of Bible Students ("The Society"). I believe it was a time when loyalties were being tested, with some similarities to the events recorded at 1Ki.18:1-40.

I have always liked the thought expressed at Ps 119:160 which seems to allow for the accumulation of a "patina" due to human imperfection, even in the transmission of the word of God: 

"The very essence ("substance" NWT 1984) of your word is truth,"
 

 

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Regardless of the terminology and methodology we use to logically lay the foundations of what is true or false, with a mistake
or without a mistake, correctly understood or incorrectly understood, and so on ... there is one more thing to be taken into account. That is: self-persuasion and self-deception.

Most of people, of us,  will think/thinks about self with believing that they are among those who are healthy, beautiful, smart, good, ... belonging to the right, true group, religion, politics, family, nation... etc.

And with more self persuasion and self deception we are more sure in fictitious, wrong, err, distorted picture about yourself, who we are, what we are, and by that about other people, who are belong or not belong in "our group" or in "our idea" of how other people should  be look like, think like, act like and all other likes.

Good thing in such "self" can be self confidence and similar "selfie" that help us to survive in society.

Bad thing is this. If we are wrong, and many times we are :)))), we are, because of our self persuasion and self deception in position to deceive other people because they can see our sincerity and our faith in "story" we talking about. Some will be sceptious but some will accept "our faith in truth", but  that is in fact "faith in error, misrepresentation, misunderstanding, mistake, misapplication ...". :))

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@Sreko Sostar. I think you are basically saying that sincerity is good, but one can be sincerely wrong and therefore at times a posssible danger to others who might be inclined to follow men.

The Scriptures consistently warn us about this , but, thankfully, reassure us that Jehovah and His Son Jesus Christ know their sheep, and will ensure that they are cared for, kept safe, and importantly, are forgiven for their errrors. Rom.14:4 is very good advice to keep us focussed on the "more important things", and to avoid the pitfall of looking to men for salvation.

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