The trinity and it’s false theology.

[Jesus.defender]

I am going to start more precise threads on the main passages that JW's use to imply that Jesus is not God.

 

Again, lets stick to one or two Scripture passages per thread.

[BroRando]

@Jesus.defender

 

[Anna]

On 6/22/2018 at 8:42 PM, Jesus.defender said:

No, the Jews knew what Jesus was saying, thats why they tried to stone Him.

They thought they knew what he was saying, but evidently they didn't. Because Jesus immediately refuted such thoughts:

John 5: 18-24 This is why the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God.i ¹⁹  Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing.j For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. ²⁰  For the Father has affection for the Son k and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel.l ²¹  For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive,m so the Son also makes alive whomever he wants to.n ²²  For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son,o ²³  so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.p ²⁴  Most truly I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes the One who sent me has everlasting life".

I cannot help but see that Jesus is talking about himself, and a separate person; his father.

John 10:30 -36 ( living Bible)

³⁰ I and the Father are one.”

³¹ Then again the Jewish leaders picked up stones to kill him.

³² Jesus said, “At God’s direction I have done many a miracle to help the people. For which one are you killing me?”

³³ They replied, “Not for any good work, but for blasphemy; you, a mere man, have declared yourself to be God.”

^34-36 “In your own Law it says that men are gods!” he replied. “So if the Scripture, which cannot be untrue, speaks of those as gods to whom the message of God came, do you call it blasphemy when the one sanctified and sent into the world by the Father says, ‘I am the Son of God’?

Jesus took this opportunity to clarify he is NOT God, but that God is his father

 

[Space Merchant]

5 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Hang on, one thing at a time.

slander?

Please be more specific. WHO have i slandered? Please quote.

Perhaps look at what you started with before this discussion came into play. In addtion to that, you boast about Jesus being God when he is clearly not.

Jesus never claimed to be God, never considered to be or take plunder of God (according to Paul), and Jesus was a born Jew of the Law, who professed his Father is his God.

If you have forgotten, when Jesus was crucified he said this: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani (My God, my God, why have you forsaken me)

Those who saw this even recognized what he was saying, let alone who Jesus was, a few verses later, Certainly this was God’s Son.

g

5 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Like i said to your buddy, you can chant your mantra about the trinity as much as you want. Does not make it true.

Go to my new thread and address the 4 passages i mentioned.

But, you won't. I know.

wiccan? LOL. You don't know what you are talking about.

I have gone to your threads it what I see is a one-sided warzone in combination with verses of which you bring up, of which you bare no understanding of and apply man man understanding and exegesis to fit your belief of a Triune God.

Other that that, a majority of threads I do check, I choose to comment if need be, and it will always be the same, one denying what is true and what is deemed false.

I stated Wiccan because the biggest voices of JW opponents consist of pangans, Trinitarians, and atheists. The Wicca/Wiccans is a pagan practice, the irony is, such ones, like yourself, still follow these people because they share the same hate as you do.

That is funny though, someone such as yourself considers what is being said as a mere mantra, further proves my point, that Trinitarians lack biblical hermeneutics.

5 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Yes, those who recognize they are sinners and are born again have their sins blotted out. They are STILL sinners and still sin, though.

Which begs to question, do you even know what it means to be Born Again or the very origins of Baptism itself?

John the Baptist didn't just baptize people for nothing, there is a deep history as to why he does it, in addition to all that is regarding repentance.

6 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

That's NOT what the text says. It says Jesus created ALL things. It does NOT say Jesus created ALL things in the Genesis Act of Creation.

You may want to re-check that passage regarding John's Introductory. The response of yours just further proves, you lack knowledge of what the Bible says.

What I say is indeed true and it is fact: John 1:1 - This verse speaks of the Genesis Act of Creation, hence verses 3-6 and the mention John the Baptist several

• (1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) He was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (4) In him was life, and the life was the light of men. (5) The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

We know in the very beginning God created everything and he created everything by means of this one, his Son, for all that God had made is done through His Son, the very reason why Jesus himself marveled at what his Father had done, for God the Father took delight in His Son, as if Proverbs can make that any clearer.

An honest exploration of the Word in John 1:1 is the Word proclaimed through Jesus in his ministry as seen in the four gospel accounts and the Word he proclaimed was the proclamation of God the Father Himself, "the Word was God." The funny thing is you missed want the Torah even states as seen in Deuteronomy 18:18.

He who had seen Jesus had seen the Father in terms of the things Jesus did. God is Life (for God is the Living God) and Jesus fully expressed that Life in the very words he spoke and the works he did, again, God put HIS Word in this Prophet's mouth, the very Word of which THIS Prophet speaks (Deuteronomy 18:18 once again, Deserter).

God is Truth and Jesus fully expressed that Truth by everything he had said and everything he had done. God is Light and Jesus fully expressed the Light of the Father in all the words he spoken and works he did in the name of his God, hence why Jesus, who proclaims the Father, is also called the Light. God is Love and the flesh, the man, named Jesus fully expressed the Father's Love, the same man who had been crucified for your sins. The Word of God was something Jesus always kept. The Word became flesh, that is, the man named Jesus. Jesus came so that we might know the Father and Jesus fully expressed the Father in all the things he did because he always kept His Father's Word (His Spoken Word). Jesus' words and works were not his own but the Father's, for Jesus does and always had done the Will of His Father. The Word is God for Jesus had proclaimed it, in addition to why he is called the Word because he was the one to Speak what came from God and did not do this on his own originality, but everything done and said in the name of his God and Father.

• (6) There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. (7) He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. (8) He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. (9) The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. (10) He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.

It is very obvious that John the Baptist was not alive, didn't even exist during the Genesis Act of Creation. Trinitarians will like to point out the first several verses, but when they get from verse 3 and onward, they shy away pretty quickly because the mention of John when they want to stick to the very beginning, let alone any mention of Houtos and Autos. We know Jesus is not only the Light because of His Father, but Jesus is also the Light of men, for he came into this world that was made through him. Apostle Paul also makes this very clear also.

Nowhere in chapter 1 of John stated that Jesus made everything, for it it had, it would contradict many, many things. For we clearly see that God made everything through him, by means of him, which is also stated many times in scripture, to think otherwise is being hypocritical.

• (11) He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. (12) But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, (13) who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

This one is pretty evident, for it is informing us in regards to Jesus' time on earth and how the people reacted to what he had to say, some who believed and have been positive with him, and on the other side of the spectrum, those who were clearly against him, were very negative towards him, even wanting him dead. I really need not say much of this because this is very obvious.

• (14) And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (15) (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”)

We know this prophet to be Jesus, the very man who speaks God's Word, for indeed the Word is God the Word who proclaims the Word is the flesh, Jesus, and if we are to apply Jewish Law (Law of the Jews) Jesus is technically godlike/a god pertaining to what God the Father had said regarding his Sons, in addition to those on earth, as well as His only-begotten, I believe I made mention of this before prior to you going coo-coo for Jehovah's Witnesses.

Therefore, what I say is truth, the very reason why Trinitarians do not read in between verses in John Chapter 1 is very, very evident, this goes for the manuscript cherry picking a couple of verses down the line.

6 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Yes, and Jesus is the Word.

Seems you are learning, however you have yep to grasp what is being said. The very reason Trinitarians do not speak as much of God's Spoken Word, otherwise it would make them look as though they believe in 4 Gods.

6 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Amen, we may know the Word is God. Jesus is the Word.

As I said, you have yet to understand.

For God's Spoken Word is of God. The flesh who proclaims the Father speaks God's Word, hence as to why Jesus is called the Word of God. That is why I bring up Deuteronomy 18:18, there is other verses I left out on purpose for a reason because Trinitarians fail to make acknowledgement of what is seen in the Torah because it would backfire on them. Unlike your people, I do not shy away from what is true.

6 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Again, DONT direct me to another thread or link, please.

Unfortunately I have to because you keep spouting the same thing over and over again, and such a thing I had address, and I even provide what the bible speaks of to further my point. You do not see past John 10:30, John 1:1 or John 20:28 for context, you accept As Is because it benefits your belief, for truth causes your belief to scatter like a piece of ice, smashed on to solid pavement.

6 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

So, you are saying that Thomas merely believed what Jesus taught. So Jesus taught that He was God. Yes, to see Jesus IS to see the Father because Jesus is God and the Father is God.

Clearly you do not understand what Thomas was stating at all, the very reason why the whole seeing is believing was even the thing, you clearly ignore what was said prior to Jesus meeting with Thomas because it only paints you as a lair.

The very reason I linked the my own thread by means of biblical hermeneutics.

6 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Thomas addresses Jesus as ‘My Lord and my God’, thus recognizing Jesus as Jehovah God the Son. Jesus commended Thomas on his belated acknowledgement of Jesus as God.

No. Thomas said what he said because he did not believe, he was not present when Jesus had risen and roamed about and even when the Disciples told him, he was still in disbelief, only when Jesus appeared, he understood clearly of what Jesus had taught him, if you have forgotten, Thomas indeed followed Jesus before he was killed, he was also present when Jesus brought Lazarus back to life and was very aware of what Mary had said.

Ah and yes, Jesus is indeed the Son of the Most High, and no Jesus didn't command Thomas, we see what Jesus had said the following verse. What part of Because you have seen me, have you believed? Happy are those who have not seen and yet believe, did you not understand?

We later see in the next verse Jesus performing more signs for his followers of which is is not known and or written in the scroll, this is why John 21:25 says hat it says.

6 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Now, what is the Jewish penalty for blasphemy? Stoning to death. So, If Jesus is not God, this statement should of resulted in a stoning.

You do realize what Jesus called those who are clearly influenced by Satan, do you? You also fail to read further on as to what Jesus himself had said.

7 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

So, did Jesus pick up stones? No, Jesus commended Thomas for believing that Jesus was both Lord and God.

You just said before God is the Father and that Jesus is God's Son - you tend to contradict yourself, that is common, for even the most lost among the Trinitarian Koopa Troop. And No, Jesus, especially in that state and indoors, was unable to pick up any stone, for if you read the Bible, you would realize that the Disciples came first and Jesus appeared out of nowhere before them at Thomas' dwelling.

If Thomas indeed believed Jesus is God he would have said something when Mary even stated Jesus is God's Son. Thomas didn't believe that the Christ had risen and for Jesus to appear, having Thomas examine the wounds up close, now coming to the realization that His Lord had indeed risen and that what Jesus had said regarding the Father, was indeed true, the very reason why he said My Lord and my God, if you want to go full blown out original text, the Lord of me and the God of me.

The funny thing though, several verses back, we have Jesus calming he has a God, who is his Father prior to meeting with Thomas.

7 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Thomas wasn’t calling Jesus ‘a god’; he was calling Jesus his Lord and his God. If Jesus was not Almighty God, He would have corrected Thomas by saying something like, ‘No, I am just a god, a lesser god. Jehovah is the only true God. You must not put me in Jehovah’s place. Only Jehovah may be called my Lord and my God.’ But Jesus said no such nonsense. He commended Thomas for recognizing Him as the true God. If Thomas said ‘My Lord and my God’ as an emotional exclamation of astonishment, as

No he was not saying "a god", now you are just evading. Your biggest problem you have to address now is you claim that Jesus is being called here, a few verses back, Jesus claimed to have a God, that is, the Father, fact. You have just proven here you belief in more than one God.

 

Jesus said to her [Mary], “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Clearly, Thomas was not present. Where was he? Chillin' at his dwellings, only to later be met with the other disciples, who had already known about the risen Christ, and when he was told about the situation, he stated he does not and never will believe it, then suddenly the man himself, appears out of nowhere in their midst, despite the doors being locked and not even opened up, out of the blue and calm he tells them may you have peace. The disciples already knew for it was no surprise, but this indeed surprised Thomas, would else would have surprised Thomas?

Indeed Yahweh is the true God he is Lord, Jesus is Lord, Abraham is Lord, David is Lord, the list goes on, but the only one is above all, even above Jesus, is God the Father.

Of course Thomas was in awe and in shock, he didn't believe that Jesus had risen - Seeing is Believing and happy is the one who sees and believes.

That being said, everything and anything I have stated on my thread regarding that ONE verse, you cannot refute at all, which is seen by the obvious evading by throwing in the a god or godlike verses when the subject of the matter is My God.

I would also like to address that Jesus had called the Father His God several times in the Bible.

My Lord and My God! Thomas finally believes, for he now sees and takes into account what Jesus had taught plain and simple.

7 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

I am going to start more precise threads on the main passages that JW's use to imply that Jesus is not God.

It is not Jehovah's Witnesses you have to worry about. Your biggest concern is the majority of those who are not for the Trinity and its falsehood and its clear tampering of the Bible. You can speak ill all day about others, but there is enough proof to paint you as false.

No man is going to believe Jesus is God or the Holy Spirit, or the mysterious forth person that some of you guys allude to, therefore, such things must be spoken against and refuted.

[Jesus.defender]

4 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

@Jesus.defender

 

No, TELL me these scriptures.

[Jesus.defender]

23 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Perhaps look at what you started with before this discussion came into play. In addtion to that, you boast about Jesus being God when he is clearly not.

 

That is not slander. He CLEARLY is.

 

23 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Jesus never claimed to be God, never considered to be or take plunder of God (according to Paul), and Jesus was a born Jew of the Law, who professed his Father is his God.

 

Yes He did and i showed you the references. But you say those references have been corrupted or added, but you cant PROVE that excuse.

 

23 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

If you have forgotten, when Jesus was crucified he said this: Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani (My God, my God, why have you forsaken me)

Check out my other postings, Of course Jesus WHILST ON EARTH had a God. Would you expect Him to be an ATHEIST?! LOL.

 

23 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

 

Those who saw this even recognized what he was saying, let alone who Jesus was, a few verses later, Certainly this was God’s Son.

 

Of course Jesus was Gods' son. That doesn't mean He was not also God the son.

 

23 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

I have gone to your threads it what I see is a one-sided warzone in combination with verses of which you bring up, of which you bare no understanding of and apply man man understanding and exegesis to fit your belief of a Triune God.

If you are not willing to discuss them one at a time or reject them or ignore them, i will no longer bother with you.

You are deceitful, devious, brainwashed and ignorant.

 

 

[Jesus.defender]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

They thought they knew what he was saying, but evidently they didn't. Because Jesus immediately refuted such thoughts:

John 5: 18-24 This is why the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God.i ¹⁹  Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing.j For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. ²⁰  For the Father has affection for the Son k and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel.l ²¹  For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive,m so the Son also makes alive whomever he wants to.n ²²  For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son,o ²³  so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.p ²⁴  Most truly I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes the One who sent me has everlasting life".

I cannot help but see that Jesus is talking about himself, and a separate person; his father.

 

Yes, WHILST ON EARTH, Jesus DID has a God the father. Would you expect Him to be an atheist? That doesnt mean He is not inferior to God the father. I know what passage you will bring up and i already have a refutation for that. Also, It does not stop Jesus from being God the son.

2 hours ago, Anna said:

 

 

John 10:30 -36 ( living Bible)

³⁰ I and the Father are one.”

³¹ Then again the Jewish leaders picked up stones to kill him.

³² Jesus said, “At God’s direction I have done many a miracle to help the people. For which one are you killing me?”

³³ They replied, “Not for any good work, but for blasphemy; you, a mere man, have declared yourself to be God.”

^34-36 “In your own Law it says that men are gods!” he replied. “So if the Scripture, which cannot be untrue, speaks of those as gods to whom the message of God came, do you call it blasphemy when the one sanctified and sent into the world by the Father says, ‘I am the Son of God’?

Jesus took this opportunity to clarify he is NOT God, but that God is his father

 

Terrible translation, my friend. 

Jesus did NOT claim He wasn't God.

 

The key passage is "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

 

The key word is "your".

And notice the spelling of god. "god". not "God". and, it DOES make a difference.

 

Thank you for the polite and nice reply. I appreciate it.

 

[Space Merchant]

11 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

That is not slander. He CLEARLY is.

Clearly you are very dense on what is said.

11 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Yes He did and i showed you the references. But you say those references have been corrupted or added, but you cant PROVE that excuse.

Jesus never has claimed to be God at all, nor has he said anything to this regard, and like I said, his position between God and men, the very fact that Jesus professed the law that is a clear acknowledgment of the one who professes has a God, disproves everything and anything you say.

I have proved it, and I can do it again, but you will make the same response over and over, for this is common among you Trinitarians, for when proven wrong, you keep going, like a broken record, that is why I compared you to Bob The Builder, for when proven wrong, you resort to all the mental gymnastics and silliness to evade what is being asked and or push a claim that is 100% false.

Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus never referred to himself as God, Jesus never took plunder to or to be regarded as God.

I doubt you can find any verse that we see Jesus verbally claiming he is God or that he is the Father, for everything when put to the test and or challenged, Jesus refers to himself as the Messiah, the one who has been sent by the Father, and or that he is God's Son.

The sad reality is, even demons know who Jesus is, and clearly demons cannot be in the presents of God regardless, but knowing that Jesus is sent by the Father, you can see how Jesus dealt with them, even shutting them up.

That being said you've yet to prove anything, but you rely on the butchered works of others to push your claim anyways, for it is evident you cannot express anything on your own expect deceitfulness and hatred.

11 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Check out my other postings, Of course Jesus WHILST ON EARTH had a God. Would you expect Him to be an ATHEIST?! LOL.

The weak atheist joke is very stale. Jesus as a child was born into the law and the law requires that he learned about His God who is his Father, the very reasons why Jesus said what he said in Mark 12:28-34 when he spoke with the scribes. Jesus always quotes what is written because anything that is written is of the law, but seeing what you have stated before, you do not believe in anything that is written or what Jesus said is written, hence what you posed days ago.

Indeed, Jesus did have a God and that God is his Father, the one who abides in him and does the works, and yet you call Jesus God when there is only one, and that one God is the Father - not Jesus.

That is why we are encouraged, even told in scripture to thank God, the Father for our Lord Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:3), and it does not stop only at this verse, for Paul was quite explicit on what he had written to the churches and its congregation.

 

God's own testimony further proves that no one is equal to him or above him, for he is the only God (Joel 2:27 along with CR)

You are grown, no need for this LOL all caps nonsense.

11 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Of course Jesus was Gods' son. That doesn't mean He was not also God the son.

According to the verse that comes out of the bible, Jesus is indeed God's Son. We find this passage of which I had quoted in the following gospel account.

• Matthew 27:54 -  When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!”

references being Mark 15:39 and Luke 23:47.

The verses say it clearly, as well as explicitly over and over of who Jesus truly is, the Son of God. To make the claim that Jesus is God and seeing him cry out to His God is absurd. Trinitarians will see this passage as some scooby-doo mystery nonsense, but the Bible makes it very clear. Deserter, you make it very obvious that you are keeping your eyes closed, and your so called exegesis has nothing to show for it.

11 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

If you are not willing to discuss them one at a time or reject them or ignore them, i will no longer bother with you.

You are deceitful, devious, brainwashed and ignorant.

I am willing, but I make a response to every point you make, if you want to keep it focused on one thing, stop addressing multiple things at once.

You call me deceitful? That is cute. For last I check, you believe that God can die, when the Bible says God is incorruptible. You believe Jesus to be God when Jesus says he is the Son. You believe Thomas sees Jesus as God, when we know of Thomas' situation and the very fact he was with Mary on the day Lazarus was brought back to life, witnessing Mary saying the following: She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming into the world.”, read up on John chapter 11. You believe the Holy Spirit to be God but the Spirit is not even a Person, you also commit a gross error when you believe that this so called person of yours was present to people like Mary, Zechariah, and several others. You believe in a 4th God also, the Spoken Word, but fall on your back and roll around like a madman ranting about a Triune God, when the reality is, there is only one God and that is the Father. You push verses out of context to fit your belief, yet any man or woman can see, with context to the passage of the truth and nothing but the truth. You also bring forth ignorance, because you do not know what the Bible says and apply weak and silly exegesis as well as man made understanding into the verses of which you put out of context.

As for brainwashing: Jesus.Defender ".... The Father is God, Jesus is God, Holy Spirit is God" and according to the Trinity, the Spoken Word is also God. You speak of 3 and allude to a fourth, but go back and contradict yourself and say only the Father is God, you are zig zagging even your own claims, friend. At this rate, you make the late cult of Attis members from ancient Asia Minor times look like heroes - and that is not a good thing.

Nothing more than a Deserter, and another Bob the Builder, just like him, you are slandering left and right that will make even the most experience one cringe at your errors.

With that being said, you have not proven anything, the only thing you have proven is the falsehood of the Trinitarian belief, the same goes for your modalistic counterparts.

Also, @Anna is correct on what she had said. You only deem her as wrong because what she had said has already made you beneath that of a fool who does not know what he is talking - a worm beneath notice, as they say.

The only deceit, brainwash ignorant tom foolery that is being expressed is only by you, as for the other person @Brother Rando, you only say such to him because of his faith and the group he follows. He is right, but what you only see his the name of his group and nothing more, hence your response. The irony he, all that he had said is of the bible, but you fail to see that because like I said, you keep your eyes shut on what the bible teaches.

 

[Space Merchant]

@Anna Unfortunately, this Trinitarian, Jesus Deserter, is very dense and clearly unable to adhere to what the bible really says.

[Anna]

11 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Yes, WHILST ON EARTH, Jesus DID has a God the father. Would you expect Him to be an atheist? That doesnt mean He is not inferior to God the father. I know what passage you will bring up and i already have a refutation for that. Also, It does not stop Jesus from being God the son.

I think the biggest problem with this reasoning is that it assumes that Jehovah's Witnesses, who believe Jesus and God are two separate beings, somehow designate Jesus to a low position. But that is not the case at all. I will not deny that Jesus (when not in human form) is god-like. A powerful spiritual being like God. This position allows perfectly for a son father relationship. The father was first and the son was second. Just like it is with humans who have a family, with the father being the head, so it is with the spiritual heavenly family also. God is the head over all the other spiritual beings including his only begotten son, who he created exclusively by himself before anything else was created. Indeed a very lofty and special position for Jesus. All the other spiritual beings were also called sons of God, as are even humans, but only Jesus had a unique beginning, that being personally created by his father. The point is he had a beginning, whereas God did not. Also Jesus is able to think and act independently of God. Jesus is god, or if you like, even god the son. But he is not Almighty God. He is not one half of a Siamese twin nor clone with Almighty God. I do not see the Bible teaching that. God did not disembody himself and send one part, the "Jesus" part, to the earth. I do not see the Bible teaching that either. What I do see the Bible teaching is that, at great pain to himself, he sent his most precious son to the earth, to become a human, so that he could buy back what Adam and Eve lost. Because Jesus is able to act and think independently of God, the sacrifice had validity. If Jesus was God, then how would the sacrifice even work? It would make no sense at all....

 

 

[Anna]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

@Anna Unfortunately, this Trinitarian, Jesus Deserter, is very dense and clearly unable to adhere to what the bible really says.

Well, he/she interprets it the way he/she wants to, because for some reason he/she thinks it's better for God to be in three joined pieces, rather than a whole.

I find that when someone has this conviction, then there is actually no point of arguing. Only persons who are open minded admit that the teaching of the trinity makes no sense.....

It is interesting to see that if a person has no prior bias (no prior knowledge of the Bible or Christian religions) and they read all of the Hebrew scriptures, they naturally conclude that God and Jesus are two separate beings. 

[BroRando]

3 hours ago, Anna said:

  13 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Yes, WHILST ON EARTH, Jesus DID has a God the father. Would you expect Him to be an atheist? That doesnt mean He is not inferior to God the father. I know what passage you will bring up and i already have a refutation for that. Also, It does not stop Jesus from being God the son.

I find this quote interesting. I wanted to know why he changed his view from Jesus being God the Son to "Jesus is Jehovah" and he stated he never changed.  According to the trinity doctrines one person is never the other.   But I am alone in witnessing that Jesus is "the Christ, the son of the living God." (Matthew 16:16)  The same ones that scream "JESUS is GOD" don't give witness about Jesus being the Christ. I often ask the householder what trinity doctrine proclaims Jesus  being the Christ? 

Most tell me to leave and so my witness about Jesus Christ is withdrawn from the household.  We don't force salvation on anyone.  But I ask them,  Was Peter the first Pope?  Most, not all, say Yes!   Then I ask them, "Is the Pope Infallible?"   They have all stated 100% YES.

I then give in to them.  And nod my head, you know what I think, you are probably right.  So let's take a look at what Peter stated many years AFTER Jesus was Resurrected to Heaven.  Here....  tell me what you think.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (1 Peter 1:3)   Of course, they tell me they NEVER SEEN THIS SCRIPTURE. NEVER......

I then ask, "If Jesus is God, then WHO is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ?"   A few ask me to come in.  Most, shout that I don't believe in Jesus Christ!  Weird isn't it?  I'm the only one sharing this verse with them about our Lord Jesus Christ and the Catholic Priests do not.  To the ones who are humble, when I return 99% never open their door ever again.

To the few who do.  I ask again.  "If Jesus is God, then WHO is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ?"   Nobody has even said the Trinity, or that Jesus is God.  Never, not after reading what Peter wrote.  Some have even told me Jehovah?  Yahweh?  

Let's see what the bible states.  Here, can you read this scripture for me?  “That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” (Psalms 83:18)

Wanna know a secret?  The trinity doctrine never states, "Jesus is God".   Jesus is ABSENT from the trinity doctrine.  It certainly never states that "Jesus is God the Son". 

Wanna know another secret??  Neither does the Bible... ANY BIBLE     The phrase "Jesus is God"  OR  "Jesus is God the SON" is ABSENT.  Matter of fact, where is our Lord Jesus Christ in the trinity doctrine?  And they call me brainwashed??  

How is it that the Son is now the Father??  When the trinity doctrine claims the Son is NOT the Father....  oh well.... When I walk away from that household, the Angel of Salvation comes with me.  The Angel who pardons sins also grants salvation.... this Angel is the ego' eimi    "For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve," (Acts 27:23 KJV)  eg? eimi

All of a sudden, the same people who claim the Pope and the KJV is infallible, choose not to believe?   "So, then, have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth?" (Galatians 4:16)