Shunning, sinners and excommunication in JW congregations

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

ordinairy sinner?? what's that?

ORDINARY =routine, regular, average, plain, common, usual, daily :))))))

[Evacuated]

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

ORDINARY =routine, regular, average, plain, common, usual, daily :))))))

Can you give any examples of this? and what do you define as an extraordinary sinner?

[Srecko Sostar]

39 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Can you give any examples of this? and what do you define as an extraordinary sinner?

hehehehe, according to WT magazines the most dangerous sin is apostasy  and by that the most dangerous sinner is apostate. Other kind of sin and sinner are also in gradations, so WT have serious sin, gross sin and some that is considered as not so serious. If you are regular and attentive reader of WT publications you have to be familiar with this and my comments would be not so strange to you   

[Evacuated]

16 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If you are regular and attentive reader of WT publications you have to be familiar with this

Oh, I thought you would provide some examples from scripture.

[Anna]

38 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

according to WT magazines the most dangerous sin is apostasy  and by that the most dangerous sinner is apostate.

Heb 6: 4-6 "For as regards those who were once enlightened  and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit   and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things,  but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame" 

This could apply to apostates, but not necessarily. It can apply to anyone, it depends if they are willing to be revived or not. In practice this means that the person, whether an apostate or not, who has a change of heart has not committed the unforgivable sin because they can be revived. But if it is impossible to revive them, then that indicates they have sinned against the holy spirit and gone beyond the point of repentance.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Gnosis Pithos said:

What’s your point?

  On 11/10/2017 at 15:23, Anna said:

We humans can only judge what we see or hear about. Jehovah judges the heart.

Gnosis you put Confused symbol on Anna's quot, And then i ask you what confusing you about her quote. And now in your comment you are talking about me and my personality but nothing about what primarily i addressed to you. What sort of problem is between us? Or you are just full of angry?

You, and some other people, gave me plenty of Downvote symbol and i had never reacted to that. I respect your and other people's emotions and decisions. But Forum has mainly purpose that people  comments emotions and thoughts and decisions. So please, continue  

My way of thinking, spiritual and  mental  state, and  state of soul is/are NOT to downvote any of your or other people comments. And by such behaviour I prove, give testimony in public way, that what you try to show, prove only with empty words like this one:   "You're entitled to your opinion, as much as I’m entitled to mine. If you don’t like it? that’s your problem."

I have no problem to, if feels need for that, to comment on other people's thoughts. Your Emoticon symbol is your thought, your opinion, your statement. And i comment exactly that. You chose to have false name, some kind of nickname Gnosis Pithos. My name is real name and Sre?ko have real meaning "Lucky, Happy, Felix". Your choice to introduce yourself before Forum with Gnosis, I guess, have to give to others some message, some sort of your attitude, your wishes, your hopes, your mental profile. That is nice, and why that make problem for you, if I started communicate with you by put accent on such thing?  

[Srecko Sostar]

35 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Oh, I thought you would provide some examples from scripture.

We have plenty examples of sinful people in Bible, but as i can recall there is no signs of  classification as WT using today. If we can talking about bigger and smaller sins in OT then that would be possible as we compare sinful act and size of penalties, punishment.

But is it wise to have copy/paste method from OT for today?? If some would tell, but we have "principles" in OT, that is very manipulative. After all, did not Jesus made NEW things, new covenant, new law, new way how to practicing principles?? Didn't He teached things that are more powerful, substantially different, things that are connected with faith and love, mercy, equality, fraternity? Why to go back to deeds according to Law, Rules and Paragraphs -  when we want to rich, to get to holy spirit, more than to written or unwritten rules, traditions, laws, and similar what Clergy or priesthood try to bring again in. 

[Srecko Sostar]

40 minutes ago, Anna said:

enlightened

in what sense "enlightened"? only in matters of theology, doctrinal stuff?

Or writer of this words include also "body and blood" and by that improper behaviour connected to sins of flesh?  

On what thing you point Anna? 

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

This could apply to apostates, but not necessarily.

I wonder if the term "apostate" is defined in too narrow a manner? Many seem to think it refers to one who was a JW at one time but who now actively camapaigns against the teachings they once defended.

Surely anyone who determinedly and willfully discards the faith and the obligations of their dedication is constituting themselves "apostate" in that they desert, abandon, or rebel against what they once stood by, be that on an intellectual, and/or moral, and/or spritual basis? 

[Anna]

4 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

I wonder if the term "apostate" is defined in too narrow a manner?

Yes, possibly....

 

4 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Many seem to think it refers to one who was a JW at one time but who now actively camapaigns against the teachings they once defended.

Surely anyone who determinedly and willfully discards the faith and the obligations of their dedication is constituting themselves "apostate" in that they desert, abandon, or rebel against what they once stood by, be that on an intellectual, and/or moral, and/or spritual basis? 

Do you remember THIS  video? The brother there abandoned Jehovah, and became prejudiced against Jehovah's Witnesses. That is putting it nicely as no doubt at the time  it was more like enmity and active aversion judging from the context. Let me  know what you think if you watch it.

I once spoke to someone who  would have been put under the  apostate umbrella from what we understand it to mean.  He said that if he ever got into the paradise he would shoot himself. Was that just wild talk?  Or was his aversion so great that he would rather be dead? This is the point at where only Jehovah knows the answer. As for us, we can only go by what we see and hear, and we can be wrong.

So only Jehovah knows how "willful" someones discarding of the faith is. Some brothers have become so bitter because of something that happened to them to the point of  speaking against the Witnesses and Jehovah,  pretty much like the brother in the video.  But that does not automatically mean they have committed the unforgivable sin.  

[Anna]

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

in what sense "enlightened"? only in matters of theology, doctrinal stuff?

Or writer of this words include also "body and blood" and by that improper behaviour connected to sins of flesh?  

On what thing you point Anna? 

I thought that scripture was self explanatory. Enlightened means spiritually aware, in this case becoming aware of the truth about God and his son and his purpose for the future, and doing something about it in gratitude for what he has done for us by providing the ransom.

So the apostle Paul's point was that by turning away from the truth about God and his son these people reject the the very purpose of why Jesus died, and start producing" thorns" and "thistles" (verse 8).

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Anna said:

I thought that scripture was self explanatory. Enlightened means spiritually aware

Then it is enough to read the Bible and pray to God for his spirit! Bible support that!

Well Anna, i agree. But WT not support your understanding as this process alone is sufficient. In some degree we all have need to communicate with each other because "enlightening" coming on different people in various times and various circumstances. And by mutual communication (by all means, not only verbal, talking) we building our understanding and maybe spirituality. I said maybe because spirituality (in all sort of meaning not only religious) are above collected informations on this or that Bible verse, events, message....

I can find few WT texts, and some of them, where GB said how private reading the Bible, reading alone,  without leads of WT scholars can bring people back to Babylon the great and pagans beliefs.

Is it possible that reading the Bible alone can cause such damage??, Word of God would bring you or me to pagans beliefs???  

That reminds me on accusations by WT about Catholic church who do not want that laity reading the Bible and for that reason Bible was in Latin, to prevent "misunderstanding" of simple, plain, non literal people if they would read Bible alone and by that would saw how Church acting opposite to God's word. 

Very similar reasons to WT.  

Does such GB claim is TRUTH?