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Jack Ryan

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I was reading this week's study article on remaining loyal to Jah. Found an interesting contradiction on shunning. They cite two experiences. In one a JW shuns her mom and her example is posted as a positive one of someone doing the right thing. The second example however of a JW being shunned by his non-JW family is labeled as an injustice. Here's first one:


(w_E_2016 February, parragraph 7)

Forexample, a sister named Anne[1] received
a telephone call from her disfellowshipped
mother. The mother wanted to
visit Anne because she felt pained by
her isolation from the family. Anne was
deeply distressed by the plea and promised
to reply by letter. Before writing,
she reviewed Bible principles. (1 Cor. 5:
11; 2 John 9-11) Anne wrote and kindly
reminded her mother that she had
cut herself off from the family by her

wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude.
“The only way you can relieve your pain
is by returning to Jehovah,”Anne wrote.

So, the example above demonstrates the supposed loyal faith of a daughter that refused to talk to the woman that gave birth to her, raised her and surely sacrificed so much for her. This, the Watchtower claims, is an example of love and loyalty. Now let's see the second example cited in the same article in a latter paragraph:


(w_E_2016 February, parragraph 17)

In Japan, for example, Taro had
from childhood centered his life on being
loyal and obedient to his parents. He
did not do so merely out of obligation.
He really wanted to make his parents
happy. So when they opposed his association
with Jehovah’s Witnesses, he
found it especially painful to tell them
that he had decided to attend Christian
meetings. Says Taro: “They were so angry
that for years, I was forbidden to visit
them at home. I prayed for courage to
stick to my decision. Now their attitude
has softened, and I can visit them regularly.”

In this example, the non-JW family members were cruel, because they "opposed his association" and "forbid him to visit them for years". Yet, isn't this exactly what the JW daughter from the first experience was doing to her mother? only in reverse?

- Sanchy

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I was reading this week's study article on remaining loyal to Jah. Found an interesting contradiction on shunning. They cite two experiences. In one a JW shuns her mom and her example is posted as a p

The blatant hypocrisy is still vivid.  While child abuse cases are hidden from the congregations, committed by leaders, these very ones mark another as one to shun, while their own sin lays tucked awa

It's not supposed to be at the whim of the elder body, but there is no definitive way to be sure of repentance, so there will be different interpretations. There is another built-in issue: after a per

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Case 1:  Annie.  Her mom used to be a witness but was disfellowed.  Shunning will remind the mother of the gravity of her acts, that is an unrepentant attitude.  Note that a person is disfellowed not for a particular sin, but because such person is unrepentant.

Case 2: Taro. His parents are NOT witnesses in the first place.  That explains his attitude.

I hope this answers your dilemma on "blatant hypocrisy",

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The blatant hypocrisy is still vivid.  While child abuse cases are hidden from the congregations, committed by leaders, these very ones mark another as one to shun, while their own sin lays tucked away in order to keep the organization looking clean.  Luke 11:39,43,44

"For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes,and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;  but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. "  James 2:2-4,8,9

"Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way." Rom 14:4,12,13

Disfellowshiping and shunning covers a gambit of reasons.  It seems to be somewhat based on the whim of the elder body.  If one declares salvation as coming from the Father and Christ, rejecting the organization as such, this too leads to disfellowshiping.

“These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble.  They will put you out of the synagogues (Greek: "de-church you/disfellowship you); yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service.  And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me.  But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you."  John 16:1-4

This killing today by one's own brothers is spoken of in the symbolic book of Revelation. (Rev 1:1, ("presented it in signs")  It is a cutting off, a silencing, a "be-heading" of one proclaiming truth in Christ.  Rev 20:4;12:11,17  Interestingly, John the Baptist was literally beheaded for his announcements made to God's people before the coming of Christ. Luke 7:24-28; Matt 14:11  

Would the actions disfellowshiping produce spiritual bloodguilt?  Ezek 22 directs attention to "this city" of bloodshed and its idolatry.



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On 7/26/2016 at 10:47 AM, Witness said:

Disfellowshiping and shunning covers a gambit of reasons.  It seems to be somewhat based on the whim of the elder body.

It's not supposed to be at the whim of the elder body, but there is no definitive way to be sure of repentance, so there will be different interpretations. There is another built-in issue: after a person has been disfellowshipped, there is an assumption that a certain amount of time must go by before repentance is real. The amount of time can also be a bit subjective based on many factors.

But elders are selected for their ability to understand matters and their ministry as "shepherds" should allow them to know the local situation better than others, and therefore guidance to the congregation in these decisions should be trusted to the elders.

Are you saying that you believe there are no circumstances whereby a person should be disfellowshipped (expelled) from a congregation?


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On 2/15/2017 at 0:12 PM, JW Insider said:

Are you saying that you believe there are no circumstances whereby a person should be disfellowshipped (expelled) from a congregation?


That question cannot be answered with a simple yes or no.  I can only tell you why the organization has not successfully come to the aid of victims of unrighteous acts, or disfellowshiped those who deserve to be removed from the congregation for grave unrepentance. Exod 23:7; Ps 94:21; Amos 5:12 Yet even then, disfellowshiping by the org. is not in line with the love of Christ. Even the Wt use to condemn excommunication as it now practices today.  A person can be disfellowshiped for something as menial as smoking, to adultery, or murdering; yet in each instance, the treatment of the individual is exactly the same. They are shut completely out of the JW mind. This is pretty cut and dry, isn't it, and is an extremely unbalanced judgment; especially when hidden serious sins remain hidden within the congregation. 

Think about how God’s laws were enacted before Christ.  Who taught the people?

“For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the Lord Almighty and people seek instruction from his mouth.  Mal 2:7

The anointed priesthood (Exod 28:41) gave instruction and guidance according to God’s laws.  As long as the priesthood remained a cooperative effort and in harmony with God’s decrees, their guidance brought all Israel blessings. 

“‘In any dispute, the priests are to serve as judges and decide it according to my ordinances. They are to keep my laws and my decrees for all my appointed festivals, and they are to keep my Sabbaths holy.”  Ezek 44:24

“They are to teach my people the difference between the holy and the common and show them how to distinguish between the unclean and the clean.”  Ezek 44:23

How did they know God’s ordinances?  Through the anointing designated by God. 

That Temple priesthood arranged by God, foreshadowed the chosen priesthood to come. Heb 7:11,12;8:1,2,5-10;9:11.  The anointed ones in the organization are this priesthood, as we know.  What JWs don’t realize is how very important they are in facilitating the shepherding of God’s people with righteous justice. (Ezek 44:24)

Just as the early priesthood knew and enacted God’s ordinances through their anointing, it is the same with those anointed since Christ.

“This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.” Heb 8:10

 “You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.” 2 Cor 3:3

This “spiritual Israel” are circumcised, (signifying God’s possession), on the heart.  Col 2:11; (Jer 31:33)

“A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.”  Rom 2:28,29

Hopefully, you can see the importance of this priesthood and how its union with its High Priest, Christ, would benefit all mankind. 

“ But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. (the Spirit of Truth John 16:3) I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.”  1 John 2:20,21

Does the organization acknowledge this priesthood that God has established, a priesthood that would rule unfailingly, and justly, according to God’s ordinances? 

“Appointed elders represent the royal priesthood”  w02 8/1 pp. 9-14

What happens when men transgress God’s decrees, in this case, the priesthood that he has ordained by choosing others to guide his people?

In the early temple arrangement:

 “Anoint Aaron and his sons and consecrate them so they may serve me as priests.  Say to the Israelites, ‘This is to be my sacred anointing oil for the generations to come.  Do not pour it on anyone else’s body and do not make any other oil using the same formula. It is sacred, and you are to consider it sacred. Whoever makes perfume like it and puts it on anyone other than a priest must be cut off from their people.’” Exod 30:25,30-33

“But only you and your sons may serve as priests in connection with everything at the altar and inside the curtain. I am giving you the service of the priesthood as a gift. Anyone else who comes near the sanctuary is to be put to death."  Num 18:7

“This is what the Sovereign Lord says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.” Ezek 44:9

The sanctuary today – since the New Covenant in Christ, it is still God’s choice of priesthood that comprise the Temple  2 Pet 2:10,5,9  The warning of transgressing this Temple arrangement, God’s sanctuary, is as serious now as it was with the early temple.

“Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.”  1 Cor 3:16,17

Just as foreigners were not allowed in God’s early temple, those who replace his priesthood, and the GB who decree such an arrangement, will answer to God.

Destruction of God’s anointed ones by the organization is committed in more than one way.

-          They are “scattered” through the use of twisted wording:

“Modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope. They do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior. “ W 16/1

“Anointed Christians do not feel that they should spend time only with other anointed ones, as if they were members of a club. They do not try to find other anointed ones so that they can talk about being anointed or meet in groups to study the Bible.”  W 16/1  

-          They drink in lies about themselves from a wicked slave who “beats” them.  Matt 24:48-51; Rev 17:2

-          They are disfellowshiped for not accepting such an arrangement, when realizing the need to turn to Christ.  John 16:2; Heb 13:13; Rev 13:15


Can you see how these lies keep the possibility of righteous judgment from the sheep?  Any elder chosen by men to shepherd, that are not God’s choice, will rule faultily.  As you well know, a shepherding book is outlined as ordinances to follow.  If Christ’s priests were as one, and connected to the vine, Christ, would there be a need for such a book? . God’s ordinances are written on their heart, and would promote all judgment to be made in pure righteousness and love.  As I have said, this union of Christ with his anointed Body is not possible in the organization.

So as it is, an “abomination standing in the holy place” is the man appointed priesthood ruling over God’s choice.  Matt 24:15,16

 It is the “operation of error”. 2 Thess 2:11

“Trampling” is evident by the submission of his priests, and their acceptance of this spiritual “Gentile” arrangement. Luke 21:24; Dan 7:19; 8:10; Rev 11:2

 They obey men instead of Christ, just as they are told to. Rev 13:5,7 Because of this, no honor is given to the One who chose them as his special possession.  Mal 2:1-9

“When we loyally obey the elders and other brothers appointed by “the faithful and discreet slave,” we show that we want to help Christ’s brothers.” W 15/3/15

These are words of men; they are not from Christ or the Father.  The spiritual remnant anointed priesthood to survive the last days are those who come out of such a lovely veiled trap, and turn to Christ.  Jer 5:26; Col 2:8;  Rev 13:10; Zech 4:7; Rev 8:8; 1 Thess 5:3; Rev 18:4-8  This is how the law "will go out from Zion" - the law that will judge in righteousness.  Isa 2:3

Perhaps now by previous comment will blend, with more comprehension, with this one; yet it is the scriptures that bring us to truth. 



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2 hours ago, Witness said:

I can only tell you why the organization has not successfully come to the aid of victims of unrighteous acts, or disfellowshiped those who deserve to be removed from the congregation for grave unrepentance

Should be...or NOT disfellowshiped those who deserve to be removed from the congregation for grave unrepentance.

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    • M.C.

      Voici ma perle de cette semaine 
      2 Chron 30:6
      Le roi Ézéchias avait envoyé un courrier adressé aux Israélites : « Revenez à Jéhovah »
      Certains ont besoin de chercher Jéhovah  en revenant à lui.
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      Pour certains c’est grâce à la création de Jéhovah qu’ils perçoivent son existence, et qu’ils ont de la valeur à ces yeux
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    • Dandelion Friend

      Status Update, just for fun...if anyone is bored and wants something to read, here are some communications that show one example of how a disfellowshipping works. The emails are not posted in order, you have to look at the dates to figure out the order it happened in.😊



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    • Dandelion Friend

      What an exciting evening! (Sorry if it rambles...)
      I was scared because I had to go into the "shark tank." Jehovah and Jesus went with me, and they totally rocked it!😆
      The COBE elder that kicked me out of the assembly a couple of weeks ago was so angry tonight! (He's kinda like Haman.)
      My husband is PIMI but he only attends about half the meetings. He calls me an apostate and gets mad if I say anything that isn't what the GB says. He didn't go to meeting tonight. I don't let my kids go to the KH unless I go, so the kids and I usually watch the meetings online. I didn't know if they would let me and the kids into the KH. (Since they just evicted us from the assembly a couple weeks ago at lunch because I talked to people and looked like I was happy and joyful.) As we were approaching the door of the KH tonight, the doorman saw me and let it slam shut and through the window I could see him, possibly looking for permission from an elder to see if I was "banned" or not. I knocked, and the visiting CO#2 cut in front of the doorman, opened up to let me in, escorting me right past the doorman! ("Jehovah Factor"😄)
      (There were two COs because I guess one was getting a "shepherding visit week" from the other one...)
      The CO#2 was awesome, a really kind gentleman who acted like a shepherd. CO#1 didn't recognize me at first because during his last visit I didn't attend because I thought the trespassing ban was still in place (although it had been removed but the COBE conveniently forgot to tell me. I found out when I went to his house just before the Memorial to ask, since they never respond to any messages I send either by email or letter.)
      (Incidentally, I wrote in an earlier Status Update about my experiences running into the CO#1 at the assembly a couple of weeks ago...)
      As soon as we got in the KH, the regular Pharisee-types were shocked and dismayed and frowned because my presence is worse than if a contagious yowling leper came in. However, the CO#1 started asking my kids' names, and the elder standing there conveniently forgot how to talk so the CO went through the greetings and asked me my name and I chatted with him for a moment. He figured out who I was after a bit and I think he was a little shocked. (I have written to him plenty about the stuff going on in the congregation - he never replies.)
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      My daughter was in the library with her friend and her friends parents and two aunts (one is the wife of an elder.) As soon as I walked in - hush! Everybody stopped talking. I walked by them and told my daughter's friend I loved her and gave her a hug (I used to take her out in service together with my kids). I looked at the people in the room and said "I love you, even though I know you hate me, except for you...I know you love me" to one sister who I know is kind and real. Then we left and on the way out gave the other doorman who is like a grandfather a big hug and he said goodbye and kept waving as we drove off.
      What an evening! (Thank you for any positive thoughts directed my way! Jehovah is the Hearer of Prayer, and He does things with style!)
      "You well know that Jehovah your God is the true God, the faithful God, keeping his covenant and loyal love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments.  But those who hate him he will repay to their face with destruction. He will not be slow to deal with those who hate him; he will repay them to their face." (Deuteronomy 7:9,10)

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