JWs sue Norwegian government

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, George88 said:

 I found it puzzling that you were asserting he had engaged in political activities as a Watchtower representative in that hearing. I'm attempting to connect the dots here.

To me, it is a striking non-neutral attitude that he shows at the beginning of his presentation. My observation, my impression is based on comparing the official teaching of the JW church that they are politically neutral and Ben Elder's introducing expose.

If this is indeed the case, then political neutrality does not allow the freedom of any JW to comment on any political aspects among EU member states. If JWs comment on politics and politicians in a private circle, that is their choice. But if they do so in public then they are not consistent with what they preach about themselves as non-political members of society who exclusively follow a non-political Christ.

5 hours ago, George88 said:

Based on Ben's presentation, it seems that the Norwegian government has prioritized apostate views over the fundamental rights of its citizens, who contribute through taxes and abide by the same obligations as the general population. This situation raises concerns about potential discrimination within the European Union, therefore requiring a thorough evaluation by The Hague.

I wouldn't conclude it that way. In addition, in the mentality of WTJWorg, all former JWs and all those who are not JWs are supposedly "enemies" of the so-called God's organizations and God himself.
In such a fanatical context that the JW religion wants to portray, no country is inclined to WTJWorg. WTJWorg wants to portray themselves as martyrs and persecuted. That's complete nonsense.

Well, the world does not revolve around the JW religion. Such an unrealistic view of themselves is held by members of those religious organizations who consider themselves to be the only light bearers of truth and justice in this world. So, such self-evaluation is unrealistic and can create difficulties.

Norway has NOT banned JWs, nor their activities. State is denying them money. Just that. (Ok and registrar jobs for newlyweds) Precondition for receiving government money is the fulfillment of certain conditions. Due to changes in legislation or conditions for obtaining money, the status of an organization changes. If an organization does not meet the new criteria, it does not receive money. Plain and simple. Another organization in Norway does not meet the conditions and may not receive state financial support.
There is no conspiracy, no hatred, no persecution.

JWs have the freedom not to talk to people of their own choosing. Like everyone else. The problem with WTJWorg is that this ban is institutionalized. So WTJWorg determines who you can and can't talk to.

The lawyer representing JW in this case, claims in this court how "shunning" is a private choice, and that it was not imposed by the JW organization. Anyone who knows reality can see that this lawyer is LYING.

[Srecko Sostar]

[Srecko Sostar]

The above text from the JW magazine clearly shows the hatred shown by the religious leaders of the WTJWorg in 1952.
Their desire to kill ex-JWs is very strong. Allegedly, they are only prevented from doing so by secular law and the law of Jesus.

[George88]

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

To me, it is a striking non-neutral attitude that he shows at the beginning of his presentation. My observation, my impression is based on comparing the official teaching of the JW church that they are politically neutral and Ben Elder's introducing expose.

If this is indeed the case, then political neutrality does not allow the freedom of any JW to comment on any political aspects among EU member states. If JWs comment on politics and politicians in a private circle, that is their choice. But if they do so in public then they are not consistent with what they preach about themselves as non-political members of society who exclusively follow a non-political Christ.

I chose this course of action to remove any confusion and provide clarity regarding the clearly defined process. It's reminiscent of the apostles presenting their arguments in the Sanhedrin court. Was that perceived as political by anyone?

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I wouldn't conclude it that way. In addition, in the mentality of WTJWorg, all former JWs and all those who are not JWs are supposedly "enemies" of the so-called God's organizations and God himself.
In such a fanatical context that the JW religion wants to portray, no country is inclined to WTJWorg. WTJWorg wants to portray themselves as martyrs and persecuted. That's complete nonsense.

Your observation appears to lack a factual basis. Moreover, while you are challenging witnesses' statements, what makes you consider your behavior to be nonsensical as you seem to deny yourself the fact you are persecuting witnesses with your anti-watchtower rhetoric here?

You keep demonstrating all the opposition for the Watchtower, so how is all of it, not persecution?

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Norway has NOT banned JWs, nor their activities. State is denying them money. Just that. (Ok and registrar jobs for newlyweds) Precondition for receiving government money is the fulfillment of certain conditions. Due to changes in legislation or conditions for obtaining money, the status of an organization changes. If an organization does not meet the new criteria, it does not receive money. Plain and simple. Another organization in Norway does not meet the conditions and may not receive state financial support.
There is no conspiracy, no hatred, no persecution.

How is it justifiable for a government to alter its laws specifically to target the Watchtower organization without being construed as persecution or a deliberate conspiracy against it?
The government's treatment of the Watchtower is biased due to their disapproval of the Bible-based outcomes and the Watchtower's refusal to modify scripture to please the government.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JWs have the freedom not to talk to people of their own choosing. Like everyone else. The problem with WTJWorg is that this ban is institutionalized. So WTJWorg determines who you can and can't talk to.

The lawyer representing JW in this case, claims in this court how "shunning" is a private choice, and that it was not imposed by the JW organization. Anyone who knows reality can see that this lawyer is LYING.

Was the Watchtower responsible for creating the Bible and influencing its content? It seems that there is some confusion about the source of inspiration for the Bible and its principles.
Why is the government refusing to provide subsidies to the Watchtower, considering that shunning is a personal decision?

Norwegian people have the freedom to shun drug addicts, alcoholics, and homosexuals, including their family members, both in private and at times publicly. So, what is the difference when someone applies biblical principles compared to those who do it in private and are publicly seen by their behavior?

I will tell you about the nonsensical rhetoric of the ex-witness.

 

[George88]

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The above text from the JW magazine clearly shows the hatred shown by the religious leaders of the WTJWorg in 1952.
Their desire to kill ex-JWs is very strong. Allegedly, they are only prevented from doing so by secular law and the law of Jesus.

Wow! I have never seen a more confused post. I strongly recommend that you read the article in its proper context. lol!

What's funny, you are criticizing hatred while displaying it.

[Matthew9969]

Well since they claim all other bibles are corrupt and they produced the only jehovah approved bible, so yea.

[Srecko Sostar]

On 1/23/2024 at 8:55 PM, George88 said:

Moreover, while you are challenging witnesses' statements, what makes you consider your behavior to be nonsensical as you seem to deny yourself the fact you are persecuting witnesses with your anti-watchtower rhetoric here?

Indeed, I consider this kind of claim to be imprudent and bordering on paranoia. Since when was criticism considered persecution?
Since when is confrontation regarding dogmas and ideas, regarding religious interpretations and practices within a religious community considered persecution?
JWs are free to believe whatever they want (and they prove such an approach to religion on a daily basis, as they change their theology almost daily), and current and former church members and other interested observers are free to comment on it in their own way.

The confirmed practice of WTJWorg lawyers is to distort the real situation and tell untruths in the courts. In Norway, they use exactly the same tried and tested practice to obscure the facts.

[George88]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

ndeed, I consider this kind of claim to be imprudent and bordering on paranoia. Since when was criticism considered persecution?

Your response is exactly what I would anticipate from someone who rejects the truth. It is not merely your criticism that is insignificant, but rather your deep-seated animosity towards the Watchtower. If you are unable to discern the distinction, then you are simply deceiving yourself.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Since when is confrontation regarding dogmas and ideas, regarding religious interpretations and practices within a religious community considered persecution?

When certain negative beliefs and ideologies are used to intentionally harm, distort truth, and deceive the public.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JWs are free to believe whatever they want (and they prove such an approach to religion on a daily basis, as they change their theology almost daily), and current and former church members and other interested observers are free to comment on it in their own way.

If all you're here to do is spread negativity as a former member without contributing constructively, then perhaps it's best to step aside and let others engage in meaningful dialogue, if it's possible given the history of this site.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The confirmed practice of WTJWorg lawyers is to distort the real situation and tell untruths in the courts. In Norway, they use exactly the same tried and tested practice to obscure the facts.

Do you have a legal background? If not, what makes you believe you are qualified to provide expert opinions?

[George88]

Numerous Bibles offer similar interpretations, but the Watchtower's commitment to capturing the essence of the ancient scrolls and God's words without error is unparalleled. While some may question the superiority of the NWT, the fact remains: if it were truly flawed, why would God allow it to persist? In the end, it is not human opinions that hold weight, but rather the will of God.

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, George88 said:

Numerous Bibles offer similar interpretations, but the Watchtower's commitment to capturing the essence of the ancient scrolls and God's words without error is unparalleled. While some may question the superiority of the NWT, the fact remains: if it were truly flawed, why would God allow it to persist? In the end, it is not human opinions that hold weight, but rather the will of God.

The obligation to report the hours and pieces of literature that JWs were supposed to take in order to prove and show their "spirituality" to the elders and other members of the WTJWorg has no basis in the Bible. It took WTJWorg 100 years to change this doctrine. It's the same with beards.

Well please, about whose Bible and about whose interpretations are we talking about?

Has the influence of the ex-JW population led to a change in WTJWorg theology?

"Watchtower's commitment to capturing the essence" ??.... This is humorous. 

[Srecko Sostar]

Just now, Srecko Sostar said:

While some may question the superiority of the NWT, the fact remains: if it were truly flawed, why would God allow it to persist?  

WTJWorg literature answers this type of question as well. Are you really unfamiliar with that?

[Srecko Sostar]