JWs sue Norwegian government

[Srecko Sostar]

12 hours ago, BTK59 said:

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Do you and GB believe that a repentant JW who is a murderer, thief, liar, etc. is in a better position than an unrepentant JW who has stopped believing in GB interpretations and openly admits it?

The authority to judge lies with God, not the GB. While God has the ability to see into the hearts and minds of people, the Governing Body lacks this capability. Repentance can be found in the genuine willingness of an individual to demonstrate it through their actions and behavior. Nevertheless, there is no assurance, as the human heart is capable of deceit.

If you think like that, then it is also clear to you that GB has no justification for making decisions about who can and who cannot be greeted.

12 hours ago, BTK59 said:

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

How is it possible for someone to be an "apostate" in a religion that is "apostate" in itself?
To briefly explain why I used the term "apostate religion" for JWs. Other religions that are "older" than WTJWorg claim that JWs broke away from the "true" Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox and similar Christian religions. On the other hand JWs claim the same for them. In all religions there are dogmas that are incorrect. WTJWorg also proved with their theological changes that they are not a "true" religion, because they should not change their dogmas if they were correct and true. If they changed the previous dogmas that were untrue, it also gives an acceptable conclusion that they will change the current dogmas as well, because practice and experience show that nothing guarantees that the current ones are correct.

This depends on who is making the observation. If this mindset originates from an apostate perspective, it is futile. Apostasy is the conscious denial of something valuable, a value that profoundly reflects on God. Believing that one's former religion holds no value to God renders apostasy meaningless. The crucial point here is true worship, not false religion.

You contradict yourself again and again, because you stated that only God sees the true situation. This means that you have admitted that GB, and also that you personally, do not know who is an "apostate" and who is not. Because, you say, the point is who makes the observation. Since the observation is made by "imperfect" people, their assessment of who is a "renegade, apostate" is based on shaky, unreliable, inaccurate and biased conclusions. GB regularly confirms, with their nonsensical instructions, that they have placed themselves at that level of power.

 

[Pudgy]

I am having trouble with the concept that humans sinning against God reflects badly on the reputation of God.

That assumes weakness and vulnerability..

Humans can never “get it right” anyway.

The Dinosaurs failed at spirituality, and the whole thing just didn’t work out.

Did their failure reflect badly on God?

[BTK59]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If you think like that, then it is also clear to you that GB has no justification for making decisions about who can and who cannot be greeted.

Not at all, you twist the narrative as usual. God is the ultimate judge, so a rational person doesn't have to search for hidden meanings. However, scripture teaches that the responsibility of decision-making lies with responsible individuals, just as Jesus entrusted that responsibility to the apostles, who in turn delegated it to the Elders and successors thereafter. The lack of spiritual maturity from former members is futile.

Hence, it is the scripture that ultimately decides who deserves assistance once they have demonstrated remorse. When hardcore apostates persist in their harmful ways, there is also a biblical perspective that sheds light on this phenomenon. Who does God entrust to take action as his earthly representatives?

You lack the credibility or justification to believe that God hears apostates or those who disrespect his sovereignty by using his name.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You contradict yourself again and again, because you stated that only God sees the true situation. This means that you have admitted that GB, and also that you personally, do not know who is an "apostate" and who is not. Because, you say, the point is who makes the observation. Since the observation is made by "imperfect" people, their assessment of who is a "renegade, apostate" is based on shaky, unreliable, inaccurate and biased conclusions. GB regularly confirms, with their nonsensical instructions, that they have placed themselves at that level of power.

How is that a contradiction if God knows every movement in thought? Apostates don't hide who they are. You're a vocal apostate and blasphemer, how are you hiding your actions? Make sense. God knows those who conceal their true intentions and pretend to be righteous witnesses. However, they also expose their façade of dishonesty. It's not invisible here. Their reluctance to show themselves at a gathering is a sign of cowardice, but God sees through that facade even if humanity cannot. They are not deceiving God, but rather themselves, and that is the crucial distinction you are overlooking.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because, you say, the point is who makes the observation. Since the observation is made by "imperfect" people, their assessment of who is a "renegade, apostate" is based on shaky, unreliable, inaccurate and biased conclusions. GB regularly confirms, with their nonsensical instructions, that they have placed themselves at that level of power.

If people are attentive to the actions and behavior of others, the observer, entrusted by God to take earthly action through scripture, should rely solely on that understanding. The instructions from the Governing Body do not have to be comprehensible to apostates; rather, they should serve to validate the beliefs of genuine witnesses and expose any imposters.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, BTK59 said:

However, scripture teaches that the responsibility of decision-making lies with responsible individuals, just as Jesus entrusted that responsibility to the apostles, who in turn delegated it to the Elders and successors thereafter.

 

1 hour ago, BTK59 said:

If people are attentive to the actions and behavior of others, the observer, entrusted by God to take earthly action through scripture, should rely solely on that understanding. The instructions from the Governing Body do not have to be comprehensible to apostates; rather, they should serve to validate the beliefs of genuine witnesses and expose any imposters

To "clarify" this topic for the readers. This "spiritual heritage of management" culminated in the formation of today's GB. How does GB work? It governs dogmas, instructions, supervises, governs how JWs should live. How do they come to decisions? By voting of all GB members. If 2/3 of the members outvote 1/3 of the members, then the decision is considered valid. What does this say about the activities of the HS (Jesus and God) under whose "leadership" all members of the GB are allegedly act? This tells us about several possible implications.

1. not all GB members are influenced by the "same HS" when making decisions
2. HS does not "lead" all GB members equally and simultaneously, in harmony, in unity,
3. the decisions made by the GB are not united by "one spirit", that means the HS is disunited or the GB is disunited,
4. none of the JWs have a guarantee that the decisions made by the GB are the "will of God", that is, that they are for the benefit of the believers. God's will consists in the fact that the "sheep" do not go astray, but if the decision was made only because of 2/3 who overrode, overrule 1/3, then it is not God's will but human,
5. the annulled decisions of the previous GB prove that they were "human decisions" without "guidance by HS",
6. the previous statement (No.5) proves that even the current decisions of GB do not have to be "from HS"

[BTK59]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

1. not all GB members are influenced by the "same HS" when making decisions
2. HS does not "lead" all GB members equally and simultaneously, in harmony, in unity,
3. the decisions made by the GB are not united by "one spirit", that means the HS is disunited or the GB is disunited,
4. none of the JWs have a guarantee that the decisions made by the GB are the "will of God", that is, that they are for the benefit of the believers. God's will consists in the fact that the "sheep" do not go astray, but if the decision was made only because of 2/3 who overrode, overrule 1/3, then it is not God's will but human,
5. the annulled decisions of the previous GB prove that they were "human decisions" without "guidance by HS",
6. the previous statement (No.5) proves that even the current decisions of GB do not have to be "from HS"

Since this list is mostly false and contrived. What distinguishes present spiritual leaders from those in the past, when Jesus is the head of the congregation? Do you imply that Jesus made a mistake by trusting others, including the apostles, with that responsibility?

Have you ever truly comprehended scripture, or do you simply enjoy improvising your own interpretations?

Also, I don't know who feeds you that nonsense about the GB overriding other members. If the source is a weak Bethelite from the writing department, then he is mistaken. No one overrides anyone. In the absence of the Holy Spirit, the Governing Body patiently seeks complete harmony, eagerly awaiting the divine guidance that will unite them with a single purpose.  Similar to the events of the past, it is important to note that the Holy Spirit was not received by all the apostles simultaneously. They performed various tasks united by a single cause. To glorify God. The apostles were bestowed with the extraordinary power to perform miracles by God, leading them to comprehend the indomitable force of God through Christ. Now we have the Bible, but it works in the same manner. 

How does Scripture offer guidance on dealing with the absence of the Holy Spirit among the apostles? Experience the profound teachings of the book of Mark. That goes for Elders. The Holy Spirit's gift from God manifests in various ways in people. The only rule here is the person's acceptance by God. If someone who has received the Holy Spirit commits sacrilege due to their bad behavior, they will be unable to comprehend the mysteries of scripture, as Satan has blinded them, leading them towards evil intentions. This means that these individuals will begin to interpret scripture according to their own misconceptions.

Where on earth did you acquire such a profound ability to misinterpret scripture to such an extreme extent?

 

[Pudgy]

…BTK59:

Before you get into your “wish list” of how your imagination perceives things happen, take a short side trip through REALITY .. . the way things really are.

[Pudgy]

BTK59 …. Your writing is one continuous stream of theological theory in vague, nebulous, fuzzy generalizations that use recursive loop logic, which ALWAYS fails … BECAUSE … you never supply any hard facts to back up your suppositions.

For a change, add some hard facts, real life examples, and SPECIFICS to your arguements.

A MATRIX OF WORDS IS NOT A FACT.

Disneyland is a multi- billion dollar real enterprise in California … but the basis for the “House Of Mouse”, is a carefully constructed fantasy.

…. like your non-specific wish list of nattering nebulosity.

… like perhaps the greatest Science Fiction book of all time, “The Stars My Destination”, by Alfred Bester. I feel very strongly about that, but human teleportation is not a real thing, and although I could spend several pages gushing about it, it would be ONLY my strongly held opinion about a fantasy.

….. like your carefully constructed word salad fantasy about what is really going on.

[Pudgy]

BTK59 …. what you have been doing so far just ain’t cuttin’ it.

EVERYBODY has an opinion.

EVERYBODY has a butt hole.

….. don’t get ‘em mixed up!

Now THAT’s a FACT!

[Miracle Pete]

6 hours ago, Pudgy said:

BTK59 …. Your writing is one continuous stream of theological theory in vague, nebulous, fuzzy generalizations that use recursive loop logic, which ALWAYS fails … BECAUSE … you never supply any hard facts to back up your suppositions.

For a change, add some hard facts, real life examples, and SPECIFICS to your arguements.

A MATRIX OF WORDS IS NOT A FACT.

Disneyland is a multi- billion dollar real enterprise in California … but the basis for the “House Of Mouse”, is a carefully constructed fantasy.

…. like your non-specific wish list of nattering nebulosity.

… like perhaps the greatest Science Fiction book of all time, “The Stars My Destination”, by Alfred Bester. I feel very strongly about that, but human teleportation is not a real thing, and although I could spend several pages gushing about it, it would be ONLY my strongly held opinion about a fantasy.

….. like your carefully constructed word salad fantasy about what is really going on.

Or to put it a little more succinctly as we say in the UK , He’s a bit of a nob 

[Pudgy]

I had to look that up……

[BTK59]

I agree @Miracle Pete You and @Pudgy, are a nob. However, you have the potential to become even more, as unrepentant fools have the ability to do and say anything. 

[BTK59]

Just to be clear JWI, TOM, Librarian, that sick individual @Miracle Pete It's unacceptable that someone would use such offensive language on your forum, violating your bylaws. It's even more outrageous that the individual is allowed to continue while you consider banning me for simply speaking the truth.

I just wanted to point out your hypocrisy here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nob#:~:text=Derogatory term for a man's,in the UK and Ireland

• Derogatory term for a man's penis, typically used as an insult in the UK and Ireland

Your mentally ill @Miracle Pete, and I hope you're not a witness, just a sadistic animal.