How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.

[Arauna]

12 hours ago, xero said:

How many people imagine the new world to be completely conflict free?

Jesus managed conflict correctly all the time.  Free thinking allows for different views on things - but people will allow different viewpoints when it is not morally wrong. Morally wrong things will be corrected. 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah’s universal organization.

And you are no part of it...... so it seems.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

3 hours ago, Thinking said:

The Ark DOES NOT REPRESENT THE ORG….that thought was put forth by Rutherford…and it has been corrected…Russell had the correct understanding .

That THOUGHT was still around in the 1960's and 70's here in England in the JW religion. 

And added to that was,( and probably still is) that 'You have to be a baptised JW to be saved'. 

Those two THOUGHTS were pushed on newly interested ones here in England. (I know, I was that 'soldier') 

[Arauna]

patiently-waiting-for-truth/

from our publication: "God is impartial, and he extends to all people the opportunity to be saved and gain everlasting life, regardless of their nationality, race, or social status. To benefit, however, we must call on the name of Jehovah, which is the personal name of Almighty God.   Psalm 83:18.

 In the Bible, the expression “call on the name of Jehovah” means more than just knowing God’s name and using it in worship. (Psalm 116:12-14) It includes trusting God and looking to him for help.—Psalm 20:7; 99:6.

 God’s name was important to Jesus Christ. The very first words in his model prayer were: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified,” or made holy. (Matthew 6:9) Jesus also showed that we must come to know, obey, and love the Person behind that name if we are to gain everlasting life.—John 17:3, 6, 26."

 

Most Christians do not accept these names and do NOT believe that Jesus is NOT Jehovah.  Baptism means dedication.  So would you say that dedication to Jehovah and the ransom of Jesus (and maintaining that path) would lead to being saved?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Confused i am. Because quote from 2006 said:

Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah’s universal organization. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006366

Thank you Srecko. That article certainly does show that the GB were making that comparison.

Quote 11. "However, we do well to remember that only those actually inside Noah’s ark survived the Flood."

^"12 We therefore have reason to think carefully about our personal situation. Are we actually inside Jehovah’s arrangement of spiritual protection? When the great tribulation strikes, tears of joy and thankfulness will stream down the faces of those who have sought such protection. For others, there will be only tears of sorrow and regret."

^"13 Jehovah has brought about progressive adjustments in the earthly part of his organization....."

I think Srecko has proven the point through that JW article. 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Many died because he had a sensus taken of the nation.... I believe in modern language that is called collateral damage..... 

It is a strange passage that appears to upend notions of lives in the present system being incredible important to Jehovah. We usually respond to such passages with a “Moving on, here.”

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

19 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Most Christians do not accept these names and do NOT believe that Jesus is NOT Jehovah.  Baptism means dedication.  So would you say that dedication to Jehovah and the ransom of Jesus (and maintaining that path) would lead to being saved?

That does not prove that the JW Org is the means to salvation. 

As for baptism I've often wondered who has the 'authority' from God through Yeshua, to baptise people. The instruction was given to the disciples / apostles, that became the Anointed ones at that time.

Also Yeshua gave specific instruction in how to baptise

Berean Study Bible Matthew 28 : 19
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,"

But your Org does not follow those instructions, so their baptism is false. 

I think a person should be baptised as a Christian, not as a member of an Organisation. 

I do wonder, if we are all allowed to preach and teach, then should we all be allowed to baptise others ? 

As for dedication, JWs dedicate themselves to the GB and it's Org, not to YHWH through Yeshua. This can easily be shown by the fact that JWs will preach / teach only the things that the GB / Org tells them to preach / teach.  

Time has shown that to be fact and proven it to be so wrong. And people will have died because of it. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

19 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

Many died because he had a sensus taken of the nation.... I believe in modern language that is called collateral damage..... 

It is a strange passage that appears to upend notions of lives in the present system being incredible important to Jehovah. We usually respond to such passages with a “Moving on, here.”

And the GB seem to use it as an excuse to do likewise.

[Arauna]

28 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

GB seem to use it as an excuse to do likewise.

So you learnt nothing from my example....... .back to the GB - OCD hate.  ... Now i know what I deal with. 

[Arauna]

45 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

oes not prove that the JW Org is the means to salvation. 

No the Org. is NOT the means to our salvation... but Jesus' ransom  and his father Jehovah.  If you are dedicated to Jehovah and his Son and you are associated with his org.  you are assisted to maintain pure worship (without idolatry etc.) and to remain in a relationship with them. This helps you to remain in this life-saving situation. 

From your hateful attitude and complaints about everything (except complaints against Satan's organization - which is world wide) - I would say you are well on the way to self-destruction.

 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We usually respond to such passages with a “Moving on, here

We cannot fathom out every situation except understanding that many lost their lives unnecessarily and Jehovah kept  judged the living according to their heart condition. In this situation, most who died are not in Gehenna but in Sheol, just  like the opposers who came up against Moses. Jehovah promised that there would be death no longer and that we will not remember the bad things in the past. So obviously Jehovah has everything single outcome under control - even if we do not want to think about it in this way.

It is the final outcome that is important because Jehovah has the power to rectify everything else. 

In the next two to five years - many people will lose their lives due to hunger, war, untimely death through pestilence (as prophecy indicated).  Much of it is going to be due to the actions of other humans or unforeseen circumstances.  I assume that most of them will get a resurrection.   But when Armageddon - the Day of Jehovah arrives, those hardened god-haters will pay the ultimate price. 

[TrueTomHarley]

53 minutes ago, Arauna said:

So you [PSomH] learnt nothing from my example....... .back to the GB - OCD hate.  ... Now i know what I deal with. 

…

We cannot fathom out every situation except understanding that many lost their lives unnecessarily

I’m working up a post with more on that topic of so many going down in the census and subjects related but I’m just not going to do it in front of that moron who ignores the substance of any remark to insert some completely irrelevant insult of those taking the lead in the evangelizing work. In time it will be in the closed forum.