All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents

[AlanF]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

It's because they thought he was cured.

You know that, do you?

You're wrong. I told you earlier: Greenlees was a pedophile in 1964 when he was appointed a Director, and before that according to one of his child victims, Mark Palo, who has put his story online. Greenlees was 72 when he was forced off the GB. Pedophiles don't start up at age 72 -- they just keep doing what they've long been doing. And even back in 1984 it was well known that pedophiles are never cured.

Furthermore, if holy spirit had anything to do with the Governing Body -- which formed the judicial committee that found Greenlees guilty of child molestation -- it would never have 'directed' Nathan Knorr to appoint Greenlees as Director in the first place, or it would have seen to it that Greenlees was not appointed a GB member in 1971, or that he was removed long before 1984.

This all proves that holy spirit has nothing to do with appointing the elders of the Governing Body, and by extension, any other elders.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

ep·och

/ˈepək/

 

noun

noun: epoch; plural noun: epochs

1. a period of time in history or a person's life, typically one marked by notable events or particular characteristics.

   "the Victorian epoch"

    

   • the beginning of a distinctive period in the history of someone or something.

     "welfare reform was an epoch in the history of U.S. social policy"

      
   • Geology

     a division of time that is a subdivision of a period and is itself subdivided into ages, corresponding to a series in chronostratigraphy.

     "the Pliocene epoch"

      
   • Astronomy

     an arbitrarily fixed date relative to which planetary or stellar measurements are expressed.

      

      

     What if ............

      

     What if in many cases of the Bible, particularly in Genesis .... what we have translated as year or years ... should have been translated as EPOCH(S)?

      

     Hmmmmmm ?

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @TrueTomHarley  " No. You are preoccupied with this, and @4Jah2me lives and breathes it. But anyone else takes into account that there is no sizable organization on earth where CSA is not an issue, and no one that is not being sued—and in most cases, it is the leaders who are the abusers, something very rare with JWs, whose leaders are just accused of not reporting. "

Lets break this down. Firstly Mr Harley (just like Aurana) likes to compare everything to the 'world'. We all well know that the 'world' belongs to Satan the devil. So in effect Mr Harley likes to compare the GB and it's JW Org to Satan the devil. Wow, great comparison.

Secondly. Mr Harley has no idea whatsoever, just how many JW 'leaders' are involved in CSA. 

The proving point will come WHEN the Paedophile Database of 20 years + is 'opened up'. Whilst the GB and it's lawyers keep that 'can of worms' closed, then there is no way of knowing.

I am of the opinion that Almighty God wants His name (or the name JWs use) made clean.  Therefore all efforts by the GB and their lawyers will eventually fail. That 'can of worms' will be opened up, for all the earth to see. Then and only then, can Mr Harley truly decide, with full facts, exactly what percentage of JW Leaders are guilty of Child Sexual Abuse.  

It would also be interesting to know exactly whom Mr Harley is speaking of when he uses the term 'leaders' when applied to the JW org. For me it is from the GB right down to Ministerial Servants. But I hasten to add that I do not know all the ranks and titles and I think titles change on a yearly basis. 

I think @Srecko Sostar has already covered these above points but i needed to add my concerns. 

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Separate comment  

Quote @James Thomas Rook Jr.  What if in many cases of the Bible, particularly in Genesis .... what we have translated as year or years ... should have been translated as EPOCH(S)?

What excuse did the Society / JW Org come up with to suddenly wipe out the 7,000 year creative day theory ?  

And if NO ONE IN INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT , then anything could be true or false. To the point that the 'All Scripture is inspired of God.. ' scripture, may only refer to the Hebrew writings, as it was written before the Greek writings were completed and certainly before the Greek writings were gathered together to form one 'book'. 

Hence we truly need a TRUE Anointed Class to be able to receive God's Holy Spirit to give us true 'Food at the proper time' 

[AlanF]

TrueTomHarley said:

Quote

 

    4 hours ago, AlanF said:

    Your buddy Arauna seems to think it's 6,000 years, being a young-earth creationist.

Take it up with her, then.

 

I did. She punted.

Quote

Everyone is allowed one failed EOW date in a lifetime. It’s in the rules.

Let's see: we have 1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, 1975, 2000, and Real Soon Now.

That's one alright.

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Secondly. Mr Harley has no idea whatsoever, just how many JW 'leaders' are involved in CSA. 

This is not rocket science. Pay attention to existing court action. With rare exception it focuses on families in which there was child sexual abuse—often step-families—and elders are involved only in that it was not reported to authorities.

”Secondly. Mr Harley has no idea whatsoever, just how many JW 'leaders' are involved in CSA.“

I know it for everyone else, though. It is every case that comes to trial—and there are no end of them involving leaders of anything.

When was the last time you read of court action against a priest because there was child sexual abuse going on among a family of his parish and he did not stop it? 

When was the last time you read of the Boy Scouts getting sued because there was child sexual abuse going on in a Scout’s family and the Scoutleader did not stop it?

When what the last time you read of child sexual abuse involving the UN that centered around workers discovering CSA in a family and not reporting it?

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Firstly Mr Harley (just like Aurana) likes to compare everything to the 'world'. We all well know that the 'world' belongs to Satan the devil. So in effect Mr Harley likes to compare the GB and it's JW Org to Satan the devil. Wow, great comparison.

This one is almost too stupid to answer. How can you be so childish?

“Shining as illuminators in the world” is also comparing Christians to the world. To acknowledge that within your ranks you have the same issues that afflict the rest of mankind, but that overall, they are far less serious (in not involving the leaders, whereas that is the pattern elsewhere) is hardly the evil that you make it out to be. 

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I am of the opinion that Almighty God wants His name (or the name JWs use) made clean.

It’s “The LORD.” Better get used to saying it. The only ones wanting anything to do with the Name is JWs, which you have left because it is not perfect. Get cracking on your replacement organization—you who have said that God could raise up a “genuine, pure” anointed within about ten years before the end comes. Shoot me a text when that has happened.

[AlanF]

James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Quote

What if in many cases of the Bible, particularly in Genesis .... what we have translated as year or years ... should have been translated as EPOCH(S)?

The problem is not translation, but original meaning. What did 'ohm' (day) mean to the original writers? Since we can't question them, and since the word has several meanings, we don't know.

Young-earth creationists vehemently argue that 'ohm' means 24-hour day. JWs used to claim 7,000 years; now they use the mealy-mouthed term millennia, but the Society actually seems to agree with science that the "geological ages" were hundreds of millions of years long. Old-earth creationists are such for an obvious reason.

But that's not the big problem with rationalizing Genesis. The big problem is that, no matter what number of years one allows for the "creative days", the order of creation is mostly wrong according to the timing of the fossil record.

Genesis has flying creatures of all sorts -- including birds -- created on the 5th day, but land creatures first created on the 6th day. Yet land creatures appeared long before birds. Land-dwelling insects appeared 400 million years ago; land-dwelling amphibians 365 million; birds (in the form of the primitive intermediate form Archaeopteryx) not later 150 million; all but a handful of modern birds appeared later than 66 million years after the demise of the dinosaurs.

Note that the above is true irrespective of the evolution/creation question: I've spoken only of the appearance -- not the evolution or creation -- of creatures in the fossil record.

Arguing that the fossil record is wrong is like claiming a flat earth -- which the Bible does in Isaiah 40:22 (pizza pie shape) and indicates in several other places.

[TrueTomHarley]

44 minutes ago, AlanF said:

TrueTomHarley said:

I did. She punted.

Let's see: we have 1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, 1975, 2000, and Real Soon Now.

That's one alright.

One in a lifetime, I said.

It is 1975 in the case of anyone (over 45) living today. For anyone under 45, there is nothing at all.

The rules allow for it. It is a concession to human imperfection.

1941 and 2000 is straining gnats, as you know. It is you trying to retroactively puff up the stats. Nobody at the times thought those years were consequential.

Even 1975 is arguable for the certainty expressed, but for the sake of argument, I’ll let it stand.

[Srecko Sostar]

42 minutes ago, AlanF said:

The problem is not translation, but original meaning.

Yes, problem is lexical. And as consequence, of not knowing true meaning, translations are made on idea of people who making translation.

WT Bible is another example how to increase the problem. WT Society made Versions of Bible translation. They haven't  qualified staff who is extremely proficient in Biblical languages. Perhaps few individuals who finished only two grade of Latin and Greek language in High School, or in best case four years in Classical Languages. But their Versions of NWT Bible, for sure, was made  under strong influence of Doctrines and Teachings that are Unique to JW. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Hence we truly need a TRUE Anointed Class to be able to receive God's Holy Spirit to give us true 'Food at the proper time' 

Or .... if we have more common sense than a potato, what was written in the Bible will be crystal clear the first time we read it.

hint hint: That's why we have a conscience.

[AlanF]

TrueTomHarley said:

Quote

 

    2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

    Secondly. Mr Harley has no idea whatsoever, just how many JW 'leaders' are involved in CSA.

This is not rocket science. Pay attention to existing court action. With rare exception it focuses on families in which there was child sexual abuse—often step-families—and elders are involved only in that it was not reported to authorities.

 

Another lie. Plenty of cases have been brought (or would have been brought if not for statutes of limitations) where elders were the molesters.

Quote

 

    2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

    Firstly Mr Harley (just like Aurana) likes to compare everything to the 'world'. We all well know that the 'world' belongs to Satan the devil. So in effect Mr Harley likes to compare the GB and it's JW Org to Satan the devil. Wow, great comparison.

This one is almost too stupid to answer. How can you be so childish?

 

His comments amounts to calling you out on your double standards: You basically say, "We're ok because the world is worse".

Quote

“Shining as illuminators in the world” is also comparing Christians to the world.

A deceptive rationalization. It's saying that Christians are above the world.

Quote

To acknowledge that within your ranks you have the same issues that afflict the rest of mankind, but that overall, they are far less serious (in not involving the leaders, whereas that is the pattern elsewhere)

Then explain the Governing Body's actions toward homosexual pedophile Leo Greenlees.

Quote

is hardly the evil that you make it out to be.  

LOL at the Orwellian crimestop!

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Secondly. Mr Harley has no idea whatsoever, just how many JW 'leaders' are involved in CSA.“

BECAUSE THE GB ARE HIDING PAEDOPHILES IN THE JW ORG BY WITHHOLDING THE 20 PLUS YEARS OF DATABASE INFORMATION FROM THE AUTHORITIES. 

Hope that helps him to understand it. 

[AlanF]

TrueTomHarley said:

Quote

 

    3 hours ago, AlanF said:

    I did. She punted.

    Let's see: we have 1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, 1975, 2000, and Real Soon Now.

    That's one alright.

One in a lifetime, I said.

 

Um, I was alive for 1975, 2000 and Real Soon Now. My mother was alive for them and 1941. Old Freddie Franz was alive for all of those false predictions.

You really have a bad case of pathological lying.

Quote

It is 1975 in the case of anyone (over 45) living today. For anyone under 45, there is nothing at all.

The prediction for 2000 was made at various times from the 1970s through 2000 itself. Real Soon Now started about 1914 and continues.

Quote

The rules allow for it. It is a concession to human imperfection.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! JW rules, not the Bibles'.

Ever read Deuteronomy 18? JW leaders have always claimed to speak in God's name and have always made false predictions. Deut. 18 calls such charlatans false prophets.

How about Luke 21:7-8? That's explicit not to follow anyone who claims to speak in God's name and says about the time for "the end": "The due time has approached".

Quote

1941 and 2000 is straining gnats, as you know.

False. The language in Watchtower publications is explicit. You've obviously read the quotes, so your rationalizing comment is yet another outright lie.

Quote

It is you trying to retroactively puff up the stats. Nobody at the times thought those years were consequential.

Oh? So JWs are supposed to view Watchtower predictions of "the end" as in consequential?

I heard several JWs in the 1980s talking about 2000. In online forums in the late 1990s, many JW apologists threatened: "You'll get yours when 2000 rolls around!"

And today we see Arauna vaguely warning that Real Soon Now world leaders will do all manner of vile deeds. And of course, the Society itself makes this warning at every District Convention.

Quote

Even 1975 is arguable for the certainty expressed, but for the sake of argument, I’ll let it stand.

Not arguable at all. Following Orwellian crimestop principles, you've simply dismissed from your mind what you've read and, on some level, know very well it is what the false prophets known as JW leaders said. For example, the old Aid book and an Awake! article clearly stated Adam and Eve were born in the same year, just months apart. A late 1960s Watchtower had a big spread on 1975 and one article was titled, "Why Are You Looking Forward To 1975?" Do you need a refresher?

Well, here are a couple of refreshers:

https://critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/part-3-statements-concerning-1918-1925.html

https://critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/1975-new-info.html