Paradise… Will it come?

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

I don't know who, those people they speak of are, Wally McNasty, Allen, Billy the Kid. Furthermore, I guess those people left a long-lasting impression. 

 Now, I understand, it's because of some delusion. 

 

1 hour ago, BroRando said:

2 Tim 3:13  -But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.

Indeed.

[Chioke Lin]

Commentator, I base my understanding on what is written on the B’rit Hadashah of Christ. I don’t understand why you would suggest, Christ words to mean, of men.

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

20 1 Next I saw an angel coming down from heaven, who had the key to the Abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], and chained him up for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, locked it and sealed it over him; so that he could not deceive the nations any more until the thousand years were over. After that, he has to be set free for a little while.

4 Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them received authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for testifying about Yeshua and proclaiming the Word of God, also those who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands. (A) They came to life and ruled with the Messiah for a thousand years. 5  (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is anyone who has a part in the first resurrection; over him the second death has no power. (B) On the contrary, they will be cohanim of God and of the Messiah, and they will rule with him for the thousand years.

7 [C] When the thousand years are over, the Adversary will be set free from his prison 8 (D) and will go out to deceive the nations in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magogd to gather them for the battle. Their number is countless as the sand on the seashore; 9 and they came up over the breadth of the Land and surrounded the camp of God’s people and the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them. 10 The Adversary who had deceived them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11 (E) Next I saw a great white throne and the One sitting on it. Earth and heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, both great and small, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened; and another book was opened, the Book of Life; and the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 The sea gave up the dead in it; and Death and Sh’ol gave up the dead in them; and they were judged, each according to what he had done. 14 (F) Then Death and Sh’ol were hurled into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. 15 (G) Anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was hurled into the lake of fire.

(1-6) Thousand-year reign.

(2-3)  The defeat of Satan

 

(A) 144,000

(B) 144,000 as kings and priest in heaven.

(C) Satan and his legend

(D)After the thousand years

(E) After Armageddon.

(F) After the 1000 years. People would have already been judged from the first resurrection will not have a need to be judged a second time, since they will have become judges themselves. So, to me, it will be a reconciliation for those survivors.

(G)The second death when Satan is finally removed, those that listen to him after the thousand-year reign will be judged and immediately illuminated as not to corrupt perfection again. What you are referring to is the last judgment.

It is not my understanding, but the understanding of what the bible passages mean without having to rewrite the bible for some intentional bad purpose. So, the passage you quoted does not align with the Org’s intention.

*** w60 5/15 p. 313 Part 38—“Your Will Be Done on Earth” ***

Part 38—“Your Will Be Done on Earth”

*** w60 5/15 p. 316 pars. 23-24 Part 38—“Your Will Be Done on Earth” ***

23 At the proper time the glorified Son of man, the “last Adam,” will cause childbearing to cease. He will not let those survivors of Armageddon overpopulate the earth, or even fully populate it. Why not? Because he will fulfill what he said: “The dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. . . . the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:25, 28, 29) Past doers of good things, like Daniel, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and Moses and King David, and sheeplike ones dying now before Armageddon, will come out of the memorial tombs, doubtless early during the thousand-year reign of Jesus Christ with his 144,000 joint heirs. (Luke 20:35-38; Heb. 11:2, 39, 40) In agreement with this, the apostle Paul said: “There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) The unrighteous, the former practicers of vile things, who come forth to a resurrection with judgment in view, will come forth to opportunities for everlasting life on earth under the kingdom. Providently enough room must be allowed on earth for these to dwell, bringing the earth to a fullness of population, to a comfortable density and spread of population.

24 The thousand-year reign of Christ is a judgment day. (2 Pet. 3:7, 8; Acts 17:30, 31) Nevertheless, Psalms 96:12, 13 and 98:8, 9 call upon the earth to exult and cry out joyfully because Jehovah comes to judge the peoples with righteousness and faithfulness. In ancient times when Jehovah was King over Israel he raised up judges according to the need. Those judges were used to deliver the Israelites from their enemies and to restore them from false worship to the true worship of their God and King. (Judg. 2:18) So Jesus Christ the King he makes the Judge, to deliver all earth’s inhabitants from their inherited weaknesses and imperfections. He will apply to the obedient believers the benefits of his perfect human sacrifice toward perfecting them physically, mentally and spiritually.

 

 

*** w64 12/1 p. 729 par. 14 Out of the Tombs to a “Resurrection of Judgment” ***

14 Accordingly, John 5:28, 29 indicates two general classes that are distinguished from each other by the outcome of their course of action after they are resurrected. In John 5:29 Jesus uses the Greek word krisis only in connection with those who do vile things, but this does not mean that those who gain the “resurrection of life” do not pass through a trial or testing before they actually enter into their life eternal. In the case of the 144,000 who become associate judges with Jesus Christ in heaven, they have an instantaneous entrance into perfect immortal spirit life with Christ. But they have been on trial here on earth, for, as 1 Peter 4:17 says, “it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the end be of those who are not obedient to the good news of God?” Consequently, when they die faithful in the flesh, the end of their judgment period comes. In God’s due time they take part in the “first resurrection” and then “the second death has no authority” over them. (Rev. 20:4-6) They then become judges instead of being put on judgment.

 

[BroRando]

Gog of Magog in the Book of Ezekiel represents Satan's Entire Political system of things. It is Pre- Millennial. 

Gog and Magog comes about, as It is Post- Millennial. The conquest of Jesus Christ isn't over just yet, the War of Almighty God continues: "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea." (Rev 20:7-8)

[Chioke Lin]

Gog and Magog will be a system failure governed by Satan. So, if it's political, religious, systematic, none religious, government, UN, all these are components of that system failure.

[Pudgy]

I wonder if it would have the same visceral impact if Gog of Magog was instead labeled Ralph from Villa Bostock?

[Witness]

7 hours ago, BroRando said:

Gog of Magog in the Book of Ezekiel represents Satan's Entire Political system of things. It is Pre- Millennial. 

Gog and Magog comes about, as It is Post- Millennial. The conquest of Jesus Christ isn't over just yet, the War of Almighty God continues: "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea." (Rev 20:7-8)

Can you tell me of an event in the Bible when other nations attacked Israel and took them captive or conquered them, simply because they were faithful to God’s decrees?

I know of none. Gog of Magog in Ezekiel 38 attacked Israel because they were sinning and committing idolatry. (Ezek 38:8-11; 39:21-24)  Wt. and you, can’t pull those names out of a hat and change the reason why they came upon God’s people.  You can’t take a historic event based on the unfaithfulness practiced by Israel, and change its dynamics by saying today’s political nations will attack for no reason; that they will come upon a faithful, obedient people. 

Nope, that is not consistent with the examples we have in God’s word.

“These things happened to them as examples and were written for our instruction, on whom the ends of the ages have come.  So let the one who thinks he is standing be careful that he does not fall. ” 1 Cor 10:11,12

In the last days, God’s people are taken captive (Col 2:8) and are slandered/trampled by the Beast from the Sea. Are you aware of this?  Is it because they are following God’s decrees, as you believe, or because they were influenced by their deceptive choice to follow the decrees of men and their idol? ( Col 2:8; Rev 9:1-6; 13:10,18, 5-7; Matt 24:24,25; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2)

They’ve fallen into a snare; still, they made the choice. (Ezek 12:10,11,13; Jer 5:26; Eccl 9:12)  God allows it because Satan demands to test each anointed one; especially before the Kingdom arrives.  (Luke 22:31; Amos 3:5; 1 Pet 5:8; Rev 12:1-4)

To be consistent with scriptural examples, when your version of Gog and Magog come upon millions at the end of your thousand-year doctrine after Armageddon, will it be because God’s people are faithful, or because they are sinning in paradise?

Sin in paradise for an immeasurable amount of time?  That’s what your doctrine is alluding to.  When Satan deceives, sin follows. (Rev 20:7)

“But understand this, that in the last days difficult times will come. ² For people will be lovers of themselves,

Are JWs leaders lovers of themselves?  Most certainly, they have an air of arrogance while also appearing pious.  They have convinced their followers to be lovers of themselves. Contrary to scriptural examples, they have convinced them that nations will attack them, not because they are sinning, but because they are righteous.   

…lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, (the Father, the Son, Isa 9:6, and the New Covenant “woman”/mother, Gal 4:26)  ungrateful, unholy, ³ unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, savage, opposed to what is good, ⁴ treacherous, reckless, conceited, loving pleasure rather than loving God. 

⁵ They will maintain the outward appearance of religion but will have repudiated its power. So avoid people like these. ⁶ For some of these insinuate themselves into households (the preaching work) and captivate weak women(2 Cor 11:2-4) who are overwhelmed with sins and led along by various passions. ⁷ Such women are always seeking instruction, yet never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

Traditionally called, "new light".

And just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these people—who have warped minds and are disqualified in the faith—also oppose the truth. (2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12)  ⁹ But they will not go much further, for their foolishness will be obvious to everyone, just like it was with Jannes and Jambres."  2 Tim 3

I know you would never consider that these scriptures apply to the organization and its people, but it isn’t called a Wild Beast from the Sea, simply for nothing.  (Rev 13:1,2; Isa 57:20)

 

Armageddon, Time Table of Kingdoms

[BroRando]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Can you tell me of an event in the Bible when other nations attacked Israel and took them captive or conquered them, simply because they were faithful to God’s decrees?

The Nation of Israel were never faithful as a whole. 

[Witness]

34 minutes ago, BroRando said:

The Nation of Israel were never faithful as a whole. 

Okay.  Is this why the GB are saying a "Gog of Magog" will attack JWs and the anointed "Israel" in your rank?  I don't recall the GB blaming this attack on unfaithful JWs in your rank, do you?

 

[BroRando]

14 minutes ago, Witness said:

Okay.  Is this why the GB are saying a "Gog of Magog" will attack JWs and the anointed "Israel" in your rank?  I don't recall the GB blaming this attack on unfaithful JWs in your rank, do you?

Gog of Magog don't attack the unfaithful.... 

[Witness]

2 hours ago, BroRando said:

Gog of Magog don't attack the unfaithful.... 

Ezek 38 - “Therefore, prophesy, son of man, and say to Gog: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On that day when my people Israel are living securely, you will take notice ¹⁵ and come from your place, from the remote parts of the north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great company and a vast army. ¹⁶ You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud covering the earth. In future days I will bring you against My land so that the nations may acknowledge me, when before their eyes I magnify myself through you, O Gog.

Ezek 39 - “‘I will make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel; I will not let My holy name be profaned anymore. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. ⁸ Realize that it is coming and it will be done, declares the Sovereign Lord. It is the day I have spoken about.”

 

“The nations will know that the house of Israel went into exile due to their iniquity, for they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies; all of them died by the sword. ²⁴ According to their uncleanness and rebellion I have dealt with them, and I hid my face from them.”

Yes, Gog of Magog is destroyed, but he was allowed to attack Israel because of their sin, and as the scriptures say, it happens again “in future days”. 

“Israel” today has profaned the “name” of God by putting trust in the organization/Beast and in men and their doctrine. (Rev 13:4) Only those who “come out of her” (Rev 18:4-8) will escape the judgment that Ezek 39 speaks of.  The anointed who leave and repent of the sins, vowing to obey the teachings solely of the Father in Jesus Christ are “restored”.  Ezek 39:25-29

The elder body is the army (Magog), the leaders - “Gog” ("an Israelite"), that comes against “Israel”/anointed for choosing to obey men rather than their Master, Jesus Christ.  (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 9:1-4; 13:11,12,15-18)

 

 

[BroRando]

There would be No Need to DESTROY Gog of Magog if it was attacking the unfaithful...

Gog of Magog Will Soon Be Destroyed

 

[Witness]

1 hour ago, BroRando said:

There would be No Need to DESTROY Gog of Magog if it was attacking the unfaithful...

I gave you scriptures to prove otherwise.  You gave me big words. 🙂  I wish you would analyze God's Word that would prove otherwise.  The GB has created another fairytale by putting a different identity and purpose on the words, "Gog of/and Magog".

But there were also lying prophets among the people then, just as there will be lying religious teachers among you. They’ll smuggle in destructive divisions, pitting you against each other—biting the hand of the One who gave them a chance to have their lives back! They’ve put themselves on a fast downhill slide to destruction, but not before they recruit a crowd of mixed-up followers who can’t tell right from wrong. They give the way of truth a bad name. They’re only out for themselves. They’ll say anything, anything, that sounds good to exploit you. They won’t, of course, get by with it. They’ll come to a bad end, for God has never just stood by and let that kind of thing go on.  2 Pet 2:2