Paradise… Will it come?

[Chioke Lin]

Please! Please! Please! I'm enjoying this discussion. Can we keep it civil and without distractions?

 

[BroRando]

32 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

Please! Please! Please! I'm enjoying this discussion. Can we keep it civil and without distractions?

 

I agree... yet according to a certain commentator, Christ was abyssed Satan in 33 CE..  The odd thing is that the following scripture was written several decades after 33 CE states, "We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." 1 John 5:19

If Satan had already been abyssed, how is it that the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one?

Isn't Satan's Abasement yet a future act that will take place over a literal thousand years?  

Revelation 20:3

And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while.

Revelation 20:7

Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison,

Revelation 20:2

He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years.

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

21 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

In my view, I don't think, God's personal name should be a point of contention. 

 

In my view I don't think you are as genuine as you pretend to be. You are possibly someone using more than one user name. But have a good day anyway.  

JWs taught YHWH from way back.  And the Watchtower had written in one of their reference books that God's name was probably Yahweh but they used Jehovah because it was more well known at the time. 

I am quite happy to use YHWH and to use Yeshua, as they seem correct and genuine. 

And even JWs on here have now admitted that it is not Jehovah but Yehovah.

So I will continue to be Patiently Waiting For Truth from the True Anointed ones, because only the True Anointed ones will be inspired of God's Holy Spirit and therefore know God's thoughts through Yeshua. 

Meanwhile people on here continue to pretend to know much more than others. I will not fall into that trap. I am not Anointed and I will not pretend to understand deep scripture. And if people think that i am foolish, then remember that it is the foolish ones that God uses. 

Berean Study Bible  1 Corinthians 1:27
But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

[Chioke Lin]

33 minutes ago, BroRando said:

I agree... yet according to a certain commentator, Christ was abyssed Satan in 33 CE..  The odd thing is that the following scripture was written several decades after 33 CE states, "We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." 1 John 5:19

If Satan had already been abyssed, how is it that the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one?

Isn't Satan's Abasement yet a future act that will take place over a literal thousand years?  

I agree, there are some commentators making discrepancies out of the bible. Perhaps you should point out those discrepancies by means of the bible's language.

We must not confuse the bibles meaning by unsolicited behavior. Leave that unsolicited behavior to those that have lost their way from, true understanding. We cannot change the minds of those that have fallen out of grace, but we can continue to proclaim the good news as faithful ministers. 

This forum should be a test of that resolve for the real world when we are confronted with the same attitude. Just like my bad English, I have to practice, practice, practice. Patience is a virtue.

 

[Chioke Lin]

12 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I am quite happy to use YHWH and to use Yeshua, as they seem correct and genuine. 

And even JWs on here have now admitted that it is not Jehovah but Yehovah.

I merely suggested if you wish to use the correction pronunciation in the Jewish language, it has always been YHVH, and Jesus is Y'shua. There is no call to get offended or to be offensive with your reply. 

In the English form, yes, YHWH and Jesus would be appropriate. I did not recommend the usage of Yahovah for the English language.

There is no need for hostilities commentator. As I mentioned above, there is no need for these kinds of distractions.

I had not down voted you before today. I see, that is your pattern of disapproval. So, I will use your method from this point on.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

59 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

I had not down voted you before today. I see, that is your pattern of disapproval. So, I will use your method from this point on.

Do as you please. I do not take you seriously anyway.  but, whoever you are, have a good day. 

[Pudgy]

 

Is that 1000 people years, or dog years?

….. reminds me of the time the State of Tennessee put up signs “PLEASE DO NOT SHOOT THE SIGNS”, with predictable results.

[Chioke Lin]

15 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

reminds me of the time the State of Tennessee put up signs “PLEASE DO NOT SHOOT THE SIGNS”, with predictable results.

Commentator, I have never seen the sign you have seen from Tennessee. I don't believe in guns. But, if you wish, you can post it for amusement.

I would consider that a distraction from a bible discussion. But as another hostile commentator replied, he doesn't take a bible discussion seriously. So, I guess humor can find a place with some, that are not serious.

[Pudgy]

20 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

Commentator, I have never seen the sign you have seen from Tennessee. I don't believe in guns. But, if you wish, you can post it for amusement.

I would consider that a distraction from a bible discussion. But as another hostile commentator replied, he doesn't take a bible discussion seriously. So, I guess humor can find a place with some, that are not serious.

(…. Pudgy does a four legged moonwalk backwards while genuflecting with downcast eyes and muttering “thankyew, thankyew, thankyew”. …).

[Chioke Lin]

1 hour ago, Peter Carroll said:

all the promises of the new government under the gb are good

Dear commentator. Can I ask which government under the gb are you referring to? Are you referring to the government that will be composed of the 144,000 along with Christ in heaven? 

Or are you referring to an earthly government, the commentor you are referring to, speaks of?

If you are referring to the Org and its GB, then it would be difficult to explain to others, the Org's GB composes a government, other than acknowledging, the Org in itself is just a tool of God to proclaims God's Kingdom.

Jesus himself didn't establish a government nor an earthly Kingdom while he was proclaiming the good news of God's kingdom.

Remember the discrepancy that commentator made with Revelation 5:9-10. Those singing a praise, are to God for the sacrifice Jesus made. Christ bought us at a heavy prize. 

Now, part of that discrepancy falls under the interpretation of scripture. Some bible use the phrase "10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God,  and they shall reign on the earth.”

The Jewish Tanakh uses a better rendition for clarity.

9 and they sang a new song, “You are worthy to take the scroll and break its seals; because you were slaughtered; at the cost of blood you ransomed for God persons from every tribe, language, people and nation. 10 You made them into a kingdom for God to rule, cohanim to serve him; and they will rule over the earth.”

My initial point was that we make the conspiracies within the bible as it relates to the reply I gave. We both became co-conspirators with the bible interpretation. Mine was by design.

If we look at Revelation 5:

6 Then I saw standing there with the throne and the four living beings, in the circle of the elders, a Lamb that appeared to have been slaughtered. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the sevenfold Spirit of God sent out into all the earth. 7 He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of the One sitting on the throne. 8 When he took the scroll, the four living beings and the twenty-four elders fell down in front of the Lamb. Each one held a harp and gold bowls filled with pieces of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people;

Here the book of revelation 5 becomes clearer on who is singing the praises and who will rule over the earth. God’s heavenly kingdom.

How, by the word "cohanim" that illustrates what the definition is.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Cohanim

[Chioke Lin]

42 minutes ago, Peter Carroll said:

daniel 2 :44 “The God of heaven will set up a kingdom [a government] that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.”

What will God’s Kingdom accomplish?

Thank you commentator for showing, you are referring to God's Heavenly government and not one comprised by the GB. Every faithful slave of God should acknowledge, God's heavenly kingdom will bring not just peace on earth, but will give man a chance at perfection again. 

[Witness]

21 hours ago, BroRando said:

I agree... yet according to a certain commentator, Christ was abyssed Satan in 33 CE..  The odd thing is that the following scripture was written several decades after 33 CE states, "We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." 1 John 5:19

If Satan had already been abyssed, how is it that the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one?

 

It’s a good question; and the whole world today is still lying in the power of the wicked.

Luke 4:5,6 -  “Thenthe devil led him up to a high place and showed him in a flash all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “To you will grant this whole realm—and the glory that goes along with it, for it has been relinquished to me, and I can give it to anyone I wish.” 

Until death is destroyed in Armageddon, (1 Cor 15:26) Satan will have his influence in the “world” of mankind; especially in the “word” of God’s “inhabited earth”, His land in the anointed.  (Acts 7:48-50; 1 Cor 3:9;16 John 14:23; Eph 2:22)  It doesn’t mean that Satan was totally inactive when abyssed, but that he couldn’t “perceive” a plan of deceit against Christ’s brothers.  Satan wanted Jesus to be swayed by his offers of riches and power, etc.  He wanted Jesus to answer to him, to be his slave. This would guarantee that Satan’s kingdom, his dominance over the world would continue; but Jesus conquered death by his obedience to the Father and for sacrificing his life, so that we could obtain eternal life by believing and obeying his teachings. The anointed members of his body must also conquer death; and Satan knows this, which is why he demanded to sift each one of them as “wheat”.  Luke 22:31

Okay,

Hades is the abyss, and is from two Greek words:

From ἄλφα (G1) (as negative particle) “not”

and εἴδω (G1492) to perceive

Hades basically means unable to perceive.  It is spiritual darkness and not a literal place, but a consignment to spiritual death – a state void of life and light in the Father and Christ.  When Jesus figuratively “chained” Satan in the abyss, he was restricted from deceiving Christ’s apostles and all anointed until the “thousand-year” reign of Christ that began in the first century, came to an end.  The message had to preached in truth, not to be influenced by deception from the devil.

“Finally, pray for us, brothers and sisters, that the Lord’s message may spread quickly and be honoredas in fact it was among you, ² and that we may be delivered from perverse and evil people. For not all have faith. ³ But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one. ⁴ And we are confident about you in the Lord that you are both doing—and will do—what we are commanding. ⁵ Now may the Lord direct your hearts toward the love of Godand the endurance of Christ.  2 Thess 3:1-5

While Jesus was on earth:

“Then the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name!” 18 So he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Look, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions and on the full force of the enemy, and nothing will hurt you.”

This was the event, and the outcome of Satan’s abyssing – “falling”.  (Rev 20:1-3) The preaching of truth by the early anointed was not deterred.  But, what did Satan accomplish against the apostles and the anointed then?  Did they fall into idolatry?  No.  Most were killed, just as Jesus was killed; yet Satan was never able to deceive them, and they died blameless, as spiritual “virgins”. (Rev 14:1-5) They never faced the end time Beast of Revelation 13, something that the book makes a point to bring out. 

“Then I saw thrones and seated on them were those who had been given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. These had not worshiped the beast or his image and had refused to receive his mark on their forehead or hand. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.”  Rev 20:4

We are told that in last days, false prophets would DECEIVE the elect. (Matt 24:24,25) How? Satan was let loose from the chains of “not perceiving”, and enacted his plan through false prophets, to DECEIVE the remaining ones of the woman’s seed. How? By flooding them with lies. (2 Pet 2:1-3; Rev 12:15)  And yes, the anointed have been deceived by falsehoods that they readily ingest, as they support the development of the organization’s existence. (Matt 7:15-20)  They have been gathered together in one place, taken captive under “empty philosophy”(Col 2:8; Rev 13:10), yet “scattered” throughout the world as not “one stone upon another”.  (1 Pet 2:5; Luke 21:6)  They are unable to bond and study the word of God under Jesus Christ, according to your leadership.  They have been sarcastically blasphemed, God’s sanctuary has been blasphemed, and ”Gentile” elders have authority over them. (Rev 13:5-7; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2)  

Can you see that anyone not anointed as God’s spiritual dwelling (Eph 2:20-22; 1  Cor 3:16) wh tells God’s chosen people, what they can and cannot do, is basically a spiritual “war” of words, and a sign that the temple of God in the anointed has been trampled down by the administration of the organization?  Dan 7:7,23; Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2)

This deception is so great that JWs readily accept false predictions and false teachings.  These are never viewed as lies, but as the need for “new LIGHT”. Light comes from Christ, whom you believe guides the organization.  A false teaching would never come from God or Jesus Christ, but JWs believe it does. If they understood what truth and light from Jesus Christ truly is, then the veil would be lifted from their eyes.

Instead, JWs believe God’s Spirit directs this organization, its failed teachings, and its leadership.  That is truly an amazing feat of Satan to turn the Father and the Son, into the liars.  Since JWs are so nonchalant about false teachings from the leaders, they have effectively been “blinded” by deceiving spirits and demonic teachings.  (1 Tim 4:1) 

^“ But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing, ⁴ among whom the god of this age (yes, this age – not in the age to come) has blinded the minds of those who do not believe so they would not see the light of the glorious gospelof Christ, who is the image of God.”  2 Cor 4:3,4

Is your gospel that Wt. says is sourced in God’s Spirit through Jesus Christ, “GLORIOUS” when it stumbles over doctrine?  The leaders cannot understand the meaning of the scriptures which they admit to – the very leaders who have taken the bait that Satan offered Jesus in Luke chapter 4.  They have built their empire of riches, and power and authority over the anointed members of Jesus’ Body.   

Yes, Satan has been let loose “for a little while” to deceive the anointed into sin and idolatry. (2 Cor 11:2-4,13-15)  The organization has become their idol. (Rev 13:4).  His release brings about the great tribulation and Armageddon to come upon the anointed and those with them.  It is a spiritual war, not the physical fulfillment in Satan’s world. (Luke 17:20; 2 Cor 10:3-5)  Do you notice who the false prophet and Beast from the Sea “gather” for the battle of Armageddon in Revelation 16:13-16?  It is the “kings of the earth” – Christ’s kings.  (Rev 1:5)  Rev 20:7-9 talks about this gathering of the ”camp of the saints”.

Gog and Magog of Revelation 20:7,8 are more descriptive terms for the two Beasts of Revelation – one is “Satan’s organization” as Wt. even calls it; the other, a line of false prophets who direct it and poison the living water of truth.  (Rev 8:10-11; 9:1-5;13:1,11,12)  Everything that the two Beasts accomplish is cloaked under the veil of “righteousness” in the organization.  JWs have on their forehead and hands, (in their minds, hearts and through their actions) the identifying mark of the Wt. organization -  the mark of the Beast.  (Rev 13:4,15-18)  Jesus explained that there would be a day when his disciples would be “thrown out of the synagogue” (congregation) by people who believe it is a service to God. ( John 16:2).  It is disfellowshipping, a spiritual “death”; and what the false prophets who guide the “inspired” Beast from the Sea practice on those who refuse to bear its mark and who reject the “buying and selling” of the false prophet’s teachings.  (Rev 13:15-17; 11:1-3-11)

What happens when judgment from God takes place?  He fulfills it, once and for all. How much more so it is with Satan.

“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I am going away. For if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you, but if I go, I will send him to you. ⁸ And when he comes, he will prove the world wrong concerning sin and righteousness and judgment— ⁹ concerning sin, becausethey do not believe in me; ¹⁰ concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will see me no longer; ¹¹ and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.”  John 16:7-11

Jesus was writing to the “world” of his day.  He was writing about those under covenant with God. 

“Now this is the basis for judging: that the light has come into the world and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. ²⁰ For everyone who does evil deeds hates the light and does not come to the light, so that their deeds will not be exposed. ²¹ But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God.”   John 3:19-21

Satan has been condemned.  He will not be “abyssed” after Armageddon, but the condemnation against him will be carried out at the end of the war of the Great Day of God the Almighty.  Rev 20:10