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Why won't they announce the reason for disfellowshipping or disassociation?

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  • Quote "I'm not scared of them. Nor do I know anyone who is".

Once again it seems that you are calling all of the Victims of Child Abuse liars. 

Hundreds if not thousands of them Earthwide are all liars are they ?

Surely you can read how many of them have said the Elders were not approachable and that Victims were frightened of being disfellowshipped if they told anyone else or if they went to the police. Children are frightened of the Elders, adults are frightened on the Elders, old people are frightened of the Elders. You just don't want to see it. 

Put your head back in the sand




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@Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης, I do not know any specifics of your particular situation or the situation in your congregation. No matter what the case, Jehovah knows your heart, and no humans or organizat

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5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

We will just have to agree to differ on things. 

Spiritual warfare may have been used by the Jews and the early Christians, but they used it to 'help' God's plans progress. It was inline with God's thinking and therefore approved by God Himself.

That is totally different to the JW Governing Body and Elders using this so called spiritual warfare to hide Pedophiles / Child Abusers within the JW Organisation. And using scriptures to form an excuse  for disfellowshipping and for shunning is not in line with God's purposes.... 

But you are not agreeing with none of the examples provided. Spiritual Warfare is Spiritual Warfare, and it is known to every man, every woman, every Christian who really reads their bible and take is seriously, that anyone who has emerged out of the Restorationist Movement, 100%, applies Spiritual Warfare as it were in the bible, therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses and other groups like them who are Restorationist apply Spiritual Warfare, you have yet to provide anything that makes them do things differently, when they did the same as the Rehab when it comes to protecting God's people and or servants, protecting their faith and belief in God, preventing any man made laws from overwriting God's law - something of which I address more than 4 times every time you say something that contradicts to what is true, especially to the publication you posted to which Spiritual Warfare was justified because the individual was protecting her faith and the ability to worship God. And everyone knows Spiritual Warfare begets Civil Disobedience, please look this up so you see what I have been saying time and time again in the previous post.

And no, the JWs are not using Spiritual Warfare to defend and or hide pedophiles. For starters, again, Restorationist Christians are bounded by religious law, they are to obey the laws of the land, but never, ever will they allow the law of the land attempt to change God's law because that right there would put them in a very bad position with God as well as Jesus, for both the Father and the Son spoke strongly on the Laws that have not been abolish, from the Old Covenant all the way to the New Covenant.

But as said before, if anyone does the research over the one sided arguments of JW opponents, they will see that they are not really hiding pedophiles as the opponents make claim of, thus allowing an attack on Christians around the globe for their resolve opens doors for witch hunts and a death march on the bible, even burning it if they have to. Other then that, there are sources that disproves the hiding claim, for it is mostly about the exchange of documents and nothing more.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

To withhold information for a wrongful purpose is as bad as deliberately telling lies. 

Yes i know the disciples disobeyed the law and went on preaching, so what, that has no relevance here.  Yes it was wonderful that they did carry on the preaching work and sad how much they suffered for it, but it was for God's purpose. 

Religious law and Secular law, this was addressed before. Actually it does, if you look up religious law, religious exemptions and the category of which internal church investigations are done in regards to documents, evidence and the like - church discipline. As it has been addressed.

As for pedophilia, it is a common disgusting thing and the action of one person who commits abuse, thus being a pedophile, hurts others around them despite not being the victim themselves.

But like I said, in the end, it will not stop people from converting to the JW faith, nor will it stop others from joining another faith, nor will it stop parents sending their children to schools and or clubs.

Other then that, the thing that does concern me is JWs are too nice of a people, and that allows for a a convert, who just happens to be a pedophile to take advantage of them so easily.

Child neglect and abuse prevention teaches that those who eek to abuse a child will take advantage of the group in question and or the chosen victims families in order to gain access to a child, and will prey on those who normally do not fight back and or not educated and or experience to handle and or diffuse such a situation.

As we speak, there are churches right now teaching their staff about how to identify child abuse and or what to do if it happens/aftermath of it. One of the things addressed, like any all PSA for child abuse is to tell another adult and or if possible, inform another adult yourself, be it someone of authority and or advise the victims parents to do something.

For an example, a victim, a child, contact authorities for it was said the abuser prevented the child from calling his parents for this was the case 3 months ago. The reason this was possible because the parents were well in the right to teach the child. Another example would be a situation taking place in a church, the church staff advise the victim and their parents to go seek the police, for even though they did not have very little evidence, they have the word of the victim.

But it would seem I am among the few who holds confidence that God will put an end to what man cannot contain themselves, especially when it comes to the errors of the flesh.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The Governing Body have deliberately made rules to use people and to frighten people. Please get it in your head, people are scared of the GB and the Elders. Scared of being disfellowshipped for even saying a wrong word. Scared of being shunned, completely isolated from the whole Organisation. That's why i was so careful not to say anything that they would consider wrong, before I left the Org. They would have much prefered to disfellowship me rather than have me just 'walk away' as I did.  But however, the brothers and sisters are still too frightened to talk to me, even though I've committed no serious sin before God.  

But when I asked for the rules and gave a response before as to why such rules exist.

And no, people are not scared of their own church leaders - for this is what only comes from the side of JW opponents, for they push this notion time and time again, even when other former JWs disproved them, they were shut down  and or had their responses erased (especially when the jw opponents had somehow flagged all videos by former witnesses to hide that information from others).

Disfellowship if I am not mistaken is a practice of expelling a person from the church, it is a practice that is done and has been done by all religious groups known to man, to Jews it is called Herem and to Muslims it is called Takfir. For anyone subjected to excommunication is also subjected to a shunning command, for this is indeed biblical and not a made up rule and being excommunicated is indeed a shock for the churchgoers and the person in question, including their family.

Fact: In religious and ecclesiastical contexts, shunning is a form of church discipline... This form of excommunicated derives from 1 Corinthians 5:11.

I would not say they get excommunicated for saying the wrong word because if history of Christianity already taught us, there are several things, even verbally, that can get someone excommunicated, the JWs are no different. For if someone goes to a church and curses God aloud, using scripture to bash the faith, twisting a teaching, etc verbally, it would get you kicked out of a church, even if you said something in a come way. In addition to that, interfaith teaching will get one excommunicated, which seems to be your case with the JWs.

An excommunication can take place by other means too, but doing something verbally can get you kicked out too, there was a quote from someone, a guy who was learning about all church denominations, if I find it I will post it here sometime.

Other then that, there is a far worse form of excommunication that is out there that makes the others look like paper in the wind.

So that being said, it is unlikely that they made this up themselves when Paul and John made it clear, as well as God himself, who wants to maintain a purity and holiness in the faith regarding removing people from the midst of the people who have done wrong, examples being Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abihu and or the individuals mentioned in scripture of whom Paul himself had expelled from the congregation.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But you will never understand it seems. Because you always include others,  the JWs and other hardcore Christians 

This is purely about the JW Org and it's Governing Body. I have no interest in any other religion or their ways. 

Anyway i have things to do, so cannot continue on here. We must just continue to have different opinions. 


Actually I do understand and know enough to stand where I am and not be easily tickled by any religious opponents of a faith, even against atheist who tend to wise up to use scripture against you.

Yes I do include others, but majority of what I say is directed to the Watchtower itself, for it was evident to nearly 99% of my comments towards you, which is both fact and true. But if you want that 1% to be different, then I am welcome to keep it that way. Other then that, you may want to re-read my comment of where you pulled my quote from, for  it is true that JWs do Spiritual Warfare/Civil Disobedience for you previous claim was using a Watchtower story to attempt to disprove what is actually true. You stated you wanted JWs to change their rules, but disregard God's Law and the fact that JWs will indeed be prompted to do Civil Disobedience, even when it comes to the laws of the land - for unlike others, they do not want to break any of God's law.

That being said, with whatever you are doing stay safe because there is some things taking place regarding Christianity that can prove troubling for some.

Also note: Hardcore Christians are the ones that study and follow the bible 100% to its core, technically they are JWs themselves for such persons are Restorationist , ironically, some have gone off grid - literally, which I find quite interesting, for I posted a video from one of them who spoke against Christmas in one of my responses to Swaili. 

Also it is Child Abuse month. For if out re as committed to the cause as I am, contribute to it, for I did so before the Passover, hence my absence for about 4-6 days.

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42 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Amen to THAT!


Oh, stuff it!

If there are two people who can be depended upon to change not one iota, and who, when you answer a question, will simply ask it again, I am looking at them.

Go back into the archives and construct my own answer for yourselves.

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@Space Merchant So which of these am i then ? But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 

Now, I'm not even pretending to be a brother. And as far as i know I'm not committing these direct sins.  Of course i commit sin as everyone does, and I ask God's forgiveness through Jesus christ. So why are the JW's not allowed to talk to me ? 

And many people that say they have been wronged in the JW Org and have left the Org because they felt deeply hurt, or because they were wrongly treated by Elders, are now shunned. Why ? It proves that no one has friends in the Org, only brothers and sisters that do their duty to one another.  

And like I've said to others YOU ALL THINK THAT ALL THE VICTIMS EARTHWIDE ARE TELLING LIES. How misled you all are. 

Do you honestly think that a few apostates have gone around the Earth, Australia, Canada, USA, Netherlands and UK, and made all the stories up concerning Sexual Child Abuse ? Do you really believe that ?  

Well that's your choice. I would rather have empathy for the victims and also be concerned about future victims, whilst the Pedophiles are kept hidden in the JW Org... 

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So which of these am i then ? But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 

Obviously not one of them. But in your other post as to how you stated your situation with the Jehovah's Witness church you went to falls in the verbal category whereas one can be excommunicated for spreading a doctrine that is not of the faith.

An example would be is this: A man can go into a church and be a member of it, a convert for about a decade, but his views change based upon what he ahs read on the Old Testament, thus wanting to know why God did what he did and paint God as villian, and should this man speak of this matter to the pastor and or church staff, even if giving the right information he refuses, thus he is excommunicated.

In your case with the JWs, you mentioned before about how you are somewhat removed from the church, and it is a known fact that for the JWs (Restorationist) is that if one speaks against the faith and the teachings, again, verbally, be it aggressive and or passive, there is grounds for excommunication. Examples would be, people will automatically assume John 1:1 (introduction to God) proves Jesus is God, or in this case, Jehovah. Being totally convinced, they will start to spread such inside the church and when they profess their so called newfound faith based on misconception of the verse, they will be excommunicated. The same thing applies for assuming if one person decides to interpret the bible for themselves and think it is correct over what the church teaches, again, grounds of excommunication, and such applies to what you had mentioned in a post you made a while back to which I offered you advise when you clearly showed you didn't know what to do or what to say, and I did everything in my power and understanding to provide advise - it is the same thread to where Witness attempted to use a typo against me, to which is utterly failed due to my comments being against the King James.

That being said, you'd be surprise of how those who believe in the Trinity Doctrine, as well as Gnosticism, Oneness, and Modalism will attempt to use a single verse over and over against to attempt to attack Non-Triniarian, specifically JWs, as well as those influenced by such doctrine to try to shift the teachings of JWs from the inside.

Mainstream Christians do not practice and or believe excommunication is necessary, thus saying it causes fear among members, there influence spreads to those who practice it, thus making the notion of members being fearful because they play into the hands of mainstreamers and New Age Christians. 

In the end, following the bible strictly and trying to cherry pick and or change a rule and or law of those who are hard pressed in scripture will indeed get you excommunicated. Just remember that those who have pure strictness of scripture will effectively excommunicate you should you think what they are doing is not biblical, even worse for one if they speak against the faith, thus becoming an apostate.

But it is ridiculous for some JW opponents though, for I had seen one speaking about placing his hands on someone's forehead to heal people, another who assumes Nicodemus was at the Passover/memorial and will go out of their way to say JWs are false, others will say that anyone who isn't a JW will be destroyed, when the information from the JWs themselves and what the bible says disproves this false claim or something like that, teachings like this does not sit well with the JWs and such falsehood can easily be spread to the inside and the ban hammer of excommunication will follow suit.

From my experience though, we had a man who was claiming that Jesus was for homosexuality, the man was not just excommunicated, for he was obviously influenced by today's society, he was rushed out by church staffers by command of the church leader, again, things of that nature, even verbally, aggressive and or passive, can put one in a position of excommunication - expelling.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Now, I'm not even pretending to be a brother. And as far as i know I'm not committing these direct sins.  Of course i commit sin as everyone does, and I ask God's forgiveness through Jesus christ. So why are the JW's not allowed to talk to me ?

Spreading interfaith teachings and or doctrine is grounds of excommunication. In fact, Anti-Christians have already spread their influence by teaching How to Get Excommunicated from a Church, and they have some verbal ques of which majority of religious will have a specific reaction, it is no different with JWs, for any interfaith talk in an attempt to shift what the JWs teach is asking for excommunication, there are also clearly ways to accept Jesus and use such to be excommunicated on the stop, like accepting Jesus and denying of the foundation Jesus left behind, for JWs take the foundation of Jesus seriously, hence The Great Commission and the church that Hades cannot bring down, Matthew 16:18.

JWs are not allowed to speak to you because excommunication and or expelling prompts the Shunning Command, which is seen in the verse I provided above. Members are not suppose to speak with the one who has been excommunicated, however, it does not stop the one kicked out from attending the JW church. JWs however, are still allowed to offer counsel, should the excommunicated be a child, the child cannot interact with anyone else, and sits with his or her family, if the excommunicated is disabled and or stick, they are still cared for by the family.

Excommunication and shunning is indeed biblical, however, religious ties may be broken, but blood ties still remain, the family in question will counsel the one who is repentant, however, one who is unrepentant, attacking the faith and or otherwise, leads one to apostasy, and a point of no return, thus putting you further to the point of thinking and or assuming things and being victim of influence that is negative.

That being said, what you displayed in your situation was spreading interfaith inside the church, thus you being dealt with. Clearly you still love God and his Son, however, you show a total disdain for what JWs teach, hence all your other comments and not realizing what, why and how scriptural teachings apply to JWs and if you were among them long enough, you would know about the religious and blood ties comment.

If you look at someone as an enemy, they will not be a friend to you, even if you use to be among them.

Other then that, read up on excommunication of how and why Christians apply it, as well as the shun command that follows from it. For it is was in the bible, there is no reason to ignore it, as I said to someone before, if the people who hate JWs the most acknowledged that shunning is biblical, but will brush over their comments by speaking of something unrelated to the subject that is excommunication.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And like I've said to others YOU ALL THINK THAT ALL THE VICTIMS EARTHWIDE ARE TELLING LIES. How misled you all are

5th time, as a guy myself who actually helps children, some abused and even scarred for life, you clearly ignore every word I said. And no, never have I said victims are lying, for a good friend of mind took it to her grave I suggest you not making checks you cannot cash.

You are accuse people of being mislead, yet you ignore truth and facts, all of us know child abuse is a problem, there is no question about that, at the same time, we are smart enough to know, the world is smart enough to know how to deal with the problem. Regarding JWs, we can use ARC as an example because in your early comments, you made a remark about ARC,but when the final report facts are placed before you, you remain unconvinced and in denial. You claim the people of the world do not care about statistics in child abuse, when Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention says otherwise, for people care for these things, just as they care about the statistics of crime, violence, murder and the like in the area they live in for it is important to them, just as child abuse is.

You remain unconvinced that child abuse has infiltrated not only  the schools, the but churches as well, this influences the JW churches, and it is said that religious institutions are plagued by and not very well equipped to deal with child abuse and or prevent an abuser from taking action, thus educating themselves and the people on the matter by means of sermons and publications - for saving at least a child from abuse is a plus because the reality is not all children can be saved and it is very difficult to prevent such cases.

I also mentioned race before, for a majority of child abuse takes place not only in the household, regardless of the person's faith, but the the abuse is normally done by a Caucasian males, be it in the US or the UK, and speaking about the UK, the very people who are investigating the JWs of child abuse are being checked out themselves for sending out children aboard who end up suffering.

That being said, it is agreeable child abuse is everywhere, as for the JWs, it is mostly the US, the UK and AU, some parts of EU, however it is very very low in places like the Congo, Asia, even Russia, and several others and the JWs are but a small percentage of the big picture - something you seem to not see for that response was address more than 5 times yet you bring this up again.

Next time you assume someone is mislead, make sure their facts and information is false because the way I see it, you tend not to read into what is said half the time, which is evident, even some of the information I posted from Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention itself - who do not mislead the masses with their information.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Do you honestly think that a few apostates have gone around the Earth, Australia, Canada, USA, Netherlands and UK, and made all the stories up concerning Sexual Child Abuse ? Do you really believe that ?  

No, but an Apostate who said that 3 of her children were abused in a JW preschool seems to be a lie, for JWs do not build preschools. UK media claims that JWs have an underground sex ring for child grooming, to which some apostates push this information out, which was indeed a lie. JW opponents writing "Watchtower knows" all over the place and claiming the JWs did it, is a lie and they know it too. JW opponents will attack JWs because they are affected by child abuse, but ignore child abuse taking place elsewhere and or in other churches, which was evident in the ex-bible student's video of which the JW opponents, one of them you posted their gofundme, managed to report and take down on YouTube, for should that 1 hour video still exist, it will shattered half of your claims of a man who is not a fan of bible students, not a fan of JWs, but a man who knows right from wrong and understands how better ways can solve a problem, for he was the very man who stopped the group from accessing a nearby park.

And last I check, nowhere was it ever mention by me that someone is making up a story, but at the same time, when there is information out there, what can be said of you is you tend to at times being in denial of facts.

I would not throw Australia into the mix either since your previous claims on the ARC final reports and words of the victims themselves.

I know what I believe and as someone myself who does help and educate children on child abuse, I am not a pawn to those who are on a warpath to destroy and beget aggressive behavior. I take the word of a Warwick citizen though, who said what JW opponents are doing is borderline extremist in their actions, which they have provide themselves to be.

And yes, there several bible verses on such a manner too.

Other then that, as I said, I am smart enough to know better solutions, some of which I provided her in the past, and will not subject myself to the position you are in right now, but eventually you will come to your senses though.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Well that's your choice. I would rather have empathy for the victims and also be concerned about future victims, whilst the Pedophiles are kept hidden in the JW Org... 

Oh I do have empathy for those I have taught have become leaders themselves in dealing with violence and abuse problems and helping those affected by it and it was not by choice as you claim nor was it ever from the beginning, hence my responses to your claims.

If you are truly concerned about the victims, know that you should be doing them justice in the right way, not in the manner you are going about. And of course, pedophiles cannot be stopped at all, only God can put an end to that. The JWs, and everyone else has to put up with pedophilia until the end times conclude, only then pedophilia would be wiped off the face of the earth - that is what I am counting on to see and you who are God fearing, you be like this also, but sadly, you consume every word of JW opponents and what those who are against Christianity is saying - the very reason why your country is suffering a decline in Christianity, so is Asia, so is the US.

In the end, you cannot judge an group for the actions of a bad person, especially if that person is a pedophile, for child abuse prevention even states pedophiles will work their way up and earn trust to get to their target. I advise you to read up on the numerous information on child abuse prevention before you bring up claims as you did previously and as of what you had said now, in addition, you should also check out the very people who are investigating the JWs in UK, for they're connections are not to shy either as they hide behind Teresa May.


Regarding Excommunication though, I leave you with this quote:


Jesus is solemnly entrusting the Church with the power to bind and loosen, and this is closely tied with the Church’s ability to excommunicate unrepentant sinners. And it’s more than just an ability. Jesus actually instructs it as the appropriate course of action to be taken in the case of certain unrepentant sinners. They are be ostracized, in the way that the Jews of the time treated Gentiles and tax collectors.


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